• BLM demonstrators boo black mayor for saying she'll put more Police in Washington's most violent nei
    106 replies, posted
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48557113]It's definitely shortsighted, but it's very understandable. Distrust of the police is widespread in those areas. People really need to read into the reasoning [i]why[/i] black people tend to distrust police, instead of saying "but they've never hurt me why do they care!" Hell, most black street gangs started out as nonviolent neighborhood watch groups, or groups of neighbors that banded together to commit petty crime for extra money. Black gang violence sprouted up at the same time as gang crime of most other races, alongside Polish gangs and Italian gangs and other immigrant groups banding together to commit crimes to show toughness to solidify their standing on the lowest rung of the social ladder. I think blatantly anti-police rhetoric is damaging. Increasing the [i]number[/i] of police in high-crime areas, [I]without[/I] adding community outreach programs is incredibly damaging and will only be viewed as oppressive and abusive. You can't just throw police at people who distrust police until something sticks, you need to find ways to regain the trust that police lost over the decades in these communities. Community outreach programs and officer discretion in certain cases of petty crime would be a great start - if you throw a bunch of police at an area of high rates of violent crime and they start arresting people for drugs and standing around suspiciously, there's going to be [i]even more[/i] distrust of police. It's a real shortsighted reaction, but it's also a shortsighted plan. Throwing a higher number of stricter cops at a problem won't fix the trust issue - you need people from the local community that have the local community's interests at heart, not outsourced cops from the town over that just want a paycheck. [/QUOTE] She even said in her speech that there was no single solution to the murder spike. Black Lives Matter has become a bad joke. You just have a bunch of idiots who know how to shout people down a spew slogans.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48557034]Well I mean you can't just throw cops at problems and expect everything to be okay[/QUOTE] What should they do then?
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;48559230]She even said in her speech that there was no single solution to the murder spike. Black Lives Matter has become a bad joke. You just have a bunch of idiots who know how to shout people down a spew slogans.[/QUOTE] It's a movement that wants solutions. When someone says there's no real solution and then says she's putting more police there, it shows she's content reacting the same way people have always reacted - and that doesn't work.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48558759]Saying that people just "don't want to leave the ghetto" is absurd... How are you supposed to get out of the ghetto?[/QUOTE] Indeed. There's a reason they call it "the trap"
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48560074]It's a movement that wants solutions. When someone says there's no real solution and then says she's putting more police there, it shows she's content reacting the same way people have always reacted - and that doesn't work.[/QUOTE] It's a movement that rallies behind the wrong causes. They riot when a black guy gets shot, when it turns out that black guy tried to assault a police officer. When the mayor does something about crime, they protest about not enough jobs. They interrupt the rally of a candidate with a long civil right record to talk about nothing. They're a bunch of college freshmen who think they invented being a liberal because they took a women's studies class at their community college.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48560142]It's a movement that rallies behind the wrong causes. They riot when a black guy gets shot, when it turns out that black guy tried to assault a police officer. When the mayor does something about crime, they protest about not enough jobs. They interrupt the rally of a candidate with a long civil right record to talk about nothing. They're a bunch of college freshmen who think they invented being a liberal because they took a women's studies class at their community college.[/QUOTE] There's issues with the movement and they aren't the Civil Rights Movement V2. It doesn't mean they're wrong about their causes - they call for greater police accountability and stronger community interaction with police. There's idiots on the internet calling to abolish police, but welcome to any online movement. People wanted to abolish capitalism at Occupy, doesn't mean the overarching goals were a complete failure - it solidified "the 1%" in our political discourse and raised campaign finance reform as a political issue for this next election. The Bernie sanders interruption actually made him announce his racial justice platform to a lot of support among BLM. He took part in their call for 7 minutes of silence. The idea that he hates BLM for interrupting him is wrong - he's demonstrated support time and time again, even specifically mentioning names when BLM told him to. Expecting a social movement to have a single leader who says everything that everyone agrees with is unrealistic. Feminism, the civil rights movement, and any other social movement has had enormous amounts of unrest and disagreements and contradictions. That's how large-scale social movements work.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48558759]Saying that people just "don't want to leave the ghetto" is absurd. Listen to almost any hip-hop. It's largely about "making it" and escaping the ghetto. There's thousands of songs about using music to provide for their families. Almost every song is about getting rich and finding success and getting out. People [I]absolutely[/I] want to leave the ghetto - they're just unable to.[/QUOTE] The majority of popular rap and hip-hop I've heard are more about using your new found money to dominate your enemies, have a lot of sex, and do a lot drugs. I don't know if I've ever heard popular hip-hop/rap about finally being able to get a good education and start a stable family. I just went and looked at the top 40 hip-hop songs right now, and they consist of: 1) Can't Feel my Face: According to Google this one is about doing cocaine 2) Watch me: It's a dance song... so not really relevant either way 3) The Hills: The lyrics speak for themselves: "I'ma let you know and keep it simple Tryna keep it up, don't seem so simple I just fucked two bitches 'fore I saw you You gon' have to do it at my tempo Always tryna send me off to rehab Drugs start to feeling like it's decaf I'm just tryna live life for the moment And all these motherfuckers want a real love" So, basically, have as much sex as possible, and do a lot of drugs, because love doesn't mean much of anything. 4) 679: Again, have lots of sex, and drugs. This one also talks about his guns and how you don't mess with him because he'll call his friends. So basically, it's a gang. My perosonal favorite couple lines: "They like, Monty, can you be my baby daddy, I'm like yeah I got robins on my jeans, you see the wings on every pair All you see is Remy Boyz, you know my niggas everywhere And if somebody got a problem, we could meet up anywhere" 5) Trap Queen: Basically the same thing, have a lot of sex, do a lot of drugs, and spend your money to show it off with expensive cars. Here's a the chorus: "And I get high with my baby I just left the mall, I'm getting fly with my baby, yeah And I can ride with my baby I be in the kitchen cooking pies with my baby, yeah And I can ride with my baby" Alright, that's enough to show the point. Generally, hip-hop/rap stars don't talk about getting out of the ghetto. They talk about living the ghetto life, but without the bad consequences.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48561138]The majority of popular rap and hip-hop I've heard are more about using your new found money to dominate your enemies, have a lot of sex, and do a lot drugs. I don't know if I've ever heard popular hip-hop/rap about finally being able to get a good education and start a stable family. I just went and looked at the top 40 hip-hop songs right now, and they consist of: 1) Can't Feel my Face: According to Google this one is about doing cocaine 2) Watch me: It's a dance song... so not really relevant either way 3) The Hills: The lyrics speak for themselves: "I'ma let you know and keep it simple Tryna keep it up, don't seem so simple I just fucked two bitches 'fore I saw you You gon' have to do it at my tempo Always tryna send me off to rehab Drugs start to feeling like it's decaf I'm just tryna live life for the moment And all these motherfuckers want a real love" So, basically, have as much sex as possible, and do a lot of drugs, because love doesn't mean much of anything. 4) 679: Again, have lots of sex, and drugs. This one also talks about his guns and how you don't mess with him because he'll call his friends. So basically, it's a gang. My perosonal favorite couple lines: "They like, Monty, can you be my baby daddy, I'm like yeah I got robins on my jeans, you see the wings on every pair All you see is Remy Boyz, you know my niggas everywhere And if somebody got a problem, we could meet up anywhere" 5) Trap Queen: Basically the same thing, have a lot of sex, do a lot of drugs, and spend your money to show it off with expensive cars. Here's a the chorus: "And I get high with my baby I just left the mall, I'm getting fly with my baby, yeah And I can ride with my baby I be in the kitchen cooking pies with my baby, yeah And I can ride with my baby" Alright, that's enough to show the point. Generally, hip-hop/rap stars don't talk about getting out of the ghetto. They talk about living the ghetto life, but without the bad consequences.[/QUOTE] Good points man. :class: I haven't personally heard a single rap or hip hop song ever that talked about how awesome doing well in high school classes is, and trying to get into college.
Hey don't talk shit about weeknd he's not ratchet like other singers [editline]28th August 2015[/editline] my personal favorite: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vYnas6q3Sg[/media]
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48561179]Hey don't talk shit about weeknd he's not ratchet like other singers [editline]28th August 2015[/editline] my personal favorite: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vYnas6q3Sg[/media][/QUOTE] I've had so many good jokes with that song with my friends.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48561138]The majority of popular rap and hip-hop I've heard are more about using your new found money to dominate your enemies, have a lot of sex, and do a lot drugs. I don't know if I've ever heard popular hip-hop/rap about finally being able to get a good education and start a stable family. I just went and looked at the top 40 hip-hop songs right now, and they consist of: 1) Can't Feel my Face: According to Google this one is about doing cocaine 2) Watch me: It's a dance song... so not really relevant either way 3) The Hills: The lyrics speak for themselves: "I'ma let you know and keep it simple Tryna keep it up, don't seem so simple I just fucked two bitches 'fore I saw you You gon' have to do it at my tempo Always tryna send me off to rehab Drugs start to feeling like it's decaf I'm just tryna live life for the moment And all these motherfuckers want a real love" So, basically, have as much sex as possible, and do a lot of drugs, because love doesn't mean much of anything. 4) 679: Again, have lots of sex, and drugs. This one also talks about his guns and how you don't mess with him because he'll call his friends. So basically, it's a gang. My perosonal favorite couple lines: "They like, Monty, can you be my baby daddy, I'm like yeah I got robins on my jeans, you see the wings on every pair All you see is Remy Boyz, you know my niggas everywhere And if somebody got a problem, we could meet up anywhere" 5) Trap Queen: Basically the same thing, have a lot of sex, do a lot of drugs, and spend your money to show it off with expensive cars. Here's a the chorus: "And I get high with my baby I just left the mall, I'm getting fly with my baby, yeah And I can ride with my baby I be in the kitchen cooking pies with my baby, yeah And I can ride with my baby" Alright, that's enough to show the point. Generally, hip-hop/rap stars don't talk about getting out of the ghetto. They talk about living the ghetto life, but without the bad consequences.[/QUOTE] The Weeknd is not hip-hop and it's the last type of song you'd hear in downtown Chicago or Compton. Fetty Wap is hugely popular among white teen audiences, not a whole lot more. A passing Google search isn't going to show you anything about decades of hip-hop culture. I've liked rap for a decade and I've been a mega fan for 5 years. Tupac's thug life motto was about uniting gangs. Dr. Dre's newest album has graphic imagery of Compton life that cannot be construed as positive. You have popular Chicago drill rappers like Lil Herb collaborating with legends like Common to make tracks about ending the cycle of violence. There's phenomenally popular artists like Kendrick Lamar making multiple concept albums about the toxicity of gang culture. You have The Game making albums like The Documentary portraying his own life struggles in violent areas. Making such a huge assumption about one of the most varied genres of music in history based on the works of two artists, one of whom isn't a rapper and one of whom is a top 40 pop star, is laughable. The rap people listen to in ghettoes is not top 40 pop rap.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48561239]The Weeknd is not hip-hop and it's the last type of song you'd hear in downtown Chicago or Compton. Fetty Wap is hugely popular among white teen audiences, not a whole lot more. A passing Google search isn't going to show you anything about decades of hip-hop culture. I've liked rap for a decade and I've been a mega fan for 5 years. Tupac's thug life motto was about uniting gangs. Dr. Dre's newest album has graphic imagery of Compton life that cannot be construed as positive. You have popular Chicago drill rappers like Lil Herb collaborating with legends like Common to make tracks about ending the cycle of violence. There's phenomenally popular artists like Kendrick Lamar making multiple concept albums about the toxicity of gang culture. You have The Game making albums like The Documentary portraying his own life struggles in violent areas. Making such a huge assumption about one of the most varied genres of music in history based on the works of two artists, one of whom isn't a rapper and one of whom is a top 40 pop star, is laughable. The rap people listen to in ghettoes is not top 40 pop rap.[/QUOTE] How the fuck is Tupac about uniting gangs when he and biggie were both murdered by each other's gangs? 1990s "gangsta" rap was all about violence and appearing macho. Nothing more.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48561257]How the fuck is Tupac about uniting gangs when he and biggie were both murdered by each other's gangs? 1990s "gangsta" rap was all about violence and appearing macho. Nothing more.[/QUOTE] There's literally a code that Tupac wrote about thug life. No children selling drugs, no carjacking, encouraging diplomacy and nonviolent handling of gang conflicts, no rape and senseless violence. It's a code of ethics for street gangs that was short lived but was all about organizing and reducing violence.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48557199]IDK, it's not uncommon for people similar to BLM to dismiss wealthy black people/black people who don't totally sympathize/very educated black people/etc. as "oreos," "uncle toms," or "house niggers." I've personally had Tiger Woods, Colin Powell, and Condoleezza Rice unironically called these things to my face.[/QUOTE] It's the famous "They're black, but they're not black black" argument.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48561239]Making such a huge assumption about one of the most varied genres of music in history based on the works of two artists, one of whom isn't a rapper and one of whom is a top 40 pop star, is laughable.[/QUOTE] I'm making assumptions based on what hip-hop is actually selling. These are the most popular songs across the nation. I just went through the next 5 and they are almost the exact same kind of stuff. How about N.W.A (Niggaz wit' Attitude)? They came out of compton and have quite a few top selling hip-hop songs... of course they are possibly the most disgusting on the entire chart. We've got Straight Outta Compton with lines such as: "From the gang called Niggaz With Attitudes When I'm called off, I got a sawed off Squeeze the trigger, and bodies are hauled off You too, boy, if ya fuck with me The police are gonna hafta come and get me" and "Straight outta Compton, another crazy ass nigga More punks I smoke, yo, my rep gets bigger I'm a bad motherfucker and you know this But the pussy ass niggaz don't show this But I don't give a fuck, I'ma make my snaps If not from the records, from jackin the crops" [editline]28th August 2015[/editline] Are they not real hip-hop either?
[QUOTE=sgman91;48561547]I'm making assumptions based on what hip-hop is actually selling. These are the most popular songs across the nation. I just went through the next 5 and they are almost the exact same kind of stuff.[/QUOTE] I guess Mumford and Sons are the peak of indie music and indie is entirely about the banjos. Not gonna bother defending hip-hop to somebody who thinks it's entirely about crime. Not worth my time. Stupidest shit I've heard all week.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48561597]I guess Mumford and Sons are the peak of indie music and indie is entirely about the banjos.[/QUOTE] If I went down the entire top Indie chart and couldn't find anything other than banjos, then yeah, it might be alright to make that claim. [QUOTE]Not gonna bother defending hip-hop to somebody who thinks [B]it's entirely about crime[/B]. Not worth my time. Stupidest shit I've heard all week.[/QUOTE] I also never said this. I said, and I quote, "The [B]majority[/B] of [B]popular[/B] rap and hip-hop I've heard is more about using your new found money to dominate your enemies, have a lot of sex, and do a lot drugs." This is a factually correct statement.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48561239] The rap people listen to in ghettoes is not top 40 pop rap.[/QUOTE] No, from my days in Job Corps, which mostly had people from the ghetto in it, plus it was located in the middle of the ghetto, most of the rap I heard was about the drug game, dissing other rappers, killing cops, and fucking lots of bitches, oh and don't forget making tons of illicit money from which you can move out of the ghetto, just to bring the ghetto with you. A lot also want to end violence, but the same people who listen to stuff about ending violence then listen to the filth about violence. I do understand the struggle, but honestly, the culture in the ghettos seems to be to get out of the ghetto, but also to do fucked up shit, and to shun those who want good. Of course, this is all a blanket statement. I'm going by shit here in Jax, pretty sure not every ghetto is the same.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48561597]I guess Mumford and Sons are the peak of indie music and indie is entirely about the banjos. Not gonna bother defending hip-hop to somebody who thinks it's entirely about crime. Not worth my time. Stupidest shit I've heard all week.[/QUOTE] Can't you just admit you were wrong about something instead of this bullshit?
[QUOTE=WarriorWounds;48561671]Can't you just admit you were wrong about something instead of this bullshit?[/QUOTE] I'm not wrong, so no.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48561597]I guess Mumford and Sons are the peak of indie music and indie is entirely about the banjos. Not gonna bother defending hip-hop to somebody who thinks it's entirely about crime. Not worth my time. Stupidest shit I've heard all week.[/QUOTE] Tbh it doesn't seem your time is worth much, so I'd like to hear you explain how that's not "real" rap.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48558622]You have to find a way to make them feel not so persecuted and show that there is a clear means to get out. Unfortunately from what I saw in my sociology class, very rarely do people move out of their social class, and things like incarceration rates are still ridiculously high for black people. I think there's a level of truth to the idea that they can't get out of poverty. I don't think that they're just lazy. I think not taking them seriously has been the root of the issue since the beginning of the Civil Rights movement and hasn't changed.[/QUOTE] Well I don't have a real answer to it other than either "throw money at the problem" or "educate people". I know the Bootstraps argument is weak, but I can't think of a better solution that'll work enough to give folks that live in ghettos the confidence to work towards leaving them or improving them. [editline]28th August 2015[/editline] Certainly the answer isn't, throw police at the problem.
[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;48561839]Tbh it doesn't seem your time is worth much, so I'd like to hear you explain how that's not "real" rap.[/QUOTE] But he said nothing about it not being "real" hip-hop? He just said that SGman is a waste of time as he came in to the thread determined that hip-hop does nothing but glorify crime and living in ghettos. Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us? [editline]28th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48561848]Well I don't have a real answer to it other than either "throw money at the problem" or "educate people". I know the Bootstraps argument is weak, but I can't think of a better solution that'll work enough to give folks that live in ghettos the confidence to work towards leaving them or improving them. [editline]28th August 2015[/editline] Certainly the answer isn't, throw police at the problem.[/QUOTE] How is "bootstrapsbootstrapsbootstraps" going to help people who don't even get the opportunities to try and pull themselves up on a regular enough basis? Remember, ghetto areas tend to have shit school, no businesses that offer real careers with prospects outside of "you might be trusted with the key to the broom cupboard some day" and any attempt to leave the ghettos results in pretty hard discrimination due to the preconceived notion that everyone from the ghettos is a trouble maker who wants to kill whitey. There are numerous studies out there on discriminatory hiring practices, just having a name that sounds like it might be remotely related to the ghettos is enough to get a CV thrown out pretty sharpish if I recall. How the fuck do you get anywhere when that happens?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48562067]But he said nothing about it not being "real" hip-hop? He just said that SGman is a waste of time as he came in to the thread determined that hip-hop does nothing but glorify crime and living in ghettos. Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us?[/QUOTE] Here are our two opposing claims in our own words. His: "Almost every song is about getting rich and finding success and getting out." Mine: "The majority of popular rap and hip-hop I've heard are more about using your new found money to dominate your enemies, have a lot of sex, and do a lot drugs." I know I've proven my point factually by showing that the VAST majority of top 40 hip-hop songs are about those very things. Tell me, what has he done other than name drop a few artists with vague ideas, and claim authority by experience?
[QUOTE=sgman91;48561615]If I went down the entire top Indie chart and couldn't find anything other than banjos, then yeah, it might be alright to make that claim. I also never said this. I said, and I quote, "The [B]majority[/B] of [B]popular[/B] rap and hip-hop I've heard is more about using your new found money to dominate your enemies, have a lot of sex, and do a lot drugs." This is a factually correct statement.[/QUOTE] What is "the 60s and their views on rock and roll" What is "the 70s and their views on punk?" What is "the 80s and their views on metal?" Exactly what you're saying here [editline]28th August 2015[/editline] Thanks Tipper Gore
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48562308]What is "the 60s and their views on rock and roll" What is "the 70s and their views on punk?" What is "the 80s and their views on metal?" Exactly what you're saying here [editline]28th August 2015[/editline] Thanks Tipper Gore[/QUOTE] What's your point? Did I claim that those are about things different than that? You're taking my point out of context. It was in directly response to his claim.
The claim has been made for a half century that "_____ music/subculture is destroying America" and has been false for that long as well.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48562335]The claim has been made for a half century that "_____ music/subculture is destroying America" and has been false for that long as well.[/QUOTE] Phew, it's a good think I didn't make that claim. Also, I would agree. Music is a reflection of society, not a creator of society.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48562335]The claim has been made for a half century that "_____ music/subculture is destroying America" and has been false for that long as well.[/QUOTE] Sure, but that wasn't his point, so just stating that out of the blue isn't really fair or relevant.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48562279] I know I've proven my point factually by showing that the VAST majority of top 40 hip-hop songs are about those very things.[/QUOTE] Except you didn't though? Also Straight Out Of Compton came out almost 30 years ago.
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