• Trump pushes for ban on gun 'bump stocks'
    330 replies, posted
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147969]So millions of Americans are wrong on gun control but Grenadian is right?[/QUOTE] If those millions of people decided to act on morals rather than sit down and attempt to address the myriad of issues that surround violence and more specifically gun violence, yes. [editline]20th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147973]I bring up my military service because I often get printed as a gun fearing liberal[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone here is trying to do that. I'm sure at this point most people on this site know that you've served/are serving, you and I have both been here a long time.
[QUOTE=Amber902;53147967]If anything SH is an echo chamber of pro gun control posters so I dont know what youre getting at[/QUOTE] I feel like I'm in the minority in terms of arguing for gun control but hey, maybe we can do a definitive poll on this.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147973]I bring up my military service because I often get printed as a gun fearing liberal, I like to show that I’m rather reasonable and have experience using these weapons.[/QUOTE] You bring it up in non firearm related threads. You know what you're doing, i know what you're doing so theres no point in being dishonest here.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53147976]If those millions of people decided to act on morals rather than sit down and attempt to address the myriad of issues that surround violence and more specifically gun violence, yes. [editline]20th February 2018[/editline] I don't think anyone here is trying to do that[/QUOTE] You’re mistaken if you think that just because you support gun control, doesn’t mean you don’t also support other methods of tackling the issue. It’s a multi tiered problem that we believe can be helped with gun legislation, social, economic, and mental health progress.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;53147979]I feel like I'm in the minority in terms of arguing for gun control but hey, maybe we can do a definitive poll on this.[/QUOTE] The reason it seems like a pro-gun echo chamber is that there are only a handful of pro-gun posters that tend to be present in the threads and propose numerous arguments, while the host of anti-gun/pro-control posters only come in once or twice.
[QUOTE=Amber902;53147980]You bring it up in non firearm related threads. You know what you're doing, i know what you're doing so theres no point in being dishonest here.[/QUOTE] Well I really only post in threads relevant to my interest which usually includes military stuff, Mental Health, and guns. That’s why you’re noticing it so much. [editline]21st February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53147984]The reason it seems like a pro-gun echo chamber is that there are only a handful of pro-gun posters that tend to be present in the threads and propose numerous arguments, while the host of anti-gun/pro-control posters only come in once or twice.[/QUOTE] Probably because you guys vehemently defend it until the thread locks and we usually just get give up after a bit lol.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147981] It’s a multi tiered problem that we believe can be helped with gun legislation, social, economic, and mental health progress.[/QUOTE] But what does the gun legislation help that tackling those other problems first doesn't? If that sentence makes any sense. Why is it that the problems aren't seen in other places that still have a prevalence of firearms similar to the US? Clearly going after firearms hasn't worked, as seen in Chicago, Los Angeles and New York. Murder rates remain high even with a squeeze on firearms. Perhaps a different approach is needed? [editline]20th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147985] Probably because you guys vehemently defend it until the thread locks and we usually just get give up after a bit lol.[/QUOTE] Well that tends to happen in a debate, one side defends their position and so does the other.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53147989]But what does the gun legislation help that tackling those other problems first doesn't? If that sentence makes any sense. Why is it that the problems aren't seen in other places that still have a prevalence of firearms similar to the US? Clearly going after firearms hasn't worked, as seen in Chicago, Los Angeles and New York. [editline]20th February 2018[/editline] Well that tends to happen in a debate, one side defends their position and so does the other.[/QUOTE] We can tackle all issues simultaneously since government doesn’t just function unilaterally.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147994]We can tackle all issues simultaneously since government doesn’t just function unilaterally.[/QUOTE] I've never implied that, and if I have, I didn't mean to.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;53147478]you realize this is just a slippery slope that can lead to banning semis all together right? Because there's no logical step between bump stocks, and a ban on semis, it's not like you can ban having a fast trigger finger or bumpfiring the old fashion way. and before anyway says "we need this to lower the deadliness of mass shootings!1" let me debunk that by the same way I debunked the AWB ban by just comparing two cases with similar causalities. [B] Florida shooting? AR15, 17 fatalities. Columbine shotguns, pistols and pistol carbines, 15 fatalities. [/B] Pulse shooting? 50 fatalities. Vegas? 59 fatalities. The GoP being a shit is no small part of it, but people calling for gun control without doing the due diligence of at least 5 minutes of scrutiny only worsens deadlocks.[/QUOTE] The Columbine shooting lasted around 45 minutes because at the time the police protocol was to surround the building rather than enter, since they were used to dealing with hostage situations not massacres. If anything that says more about the efficacy of semiautomatic weapons. In Florida one shooter was able to do even more damage in just [I]6 minutes[/I] of shooting than 2 did in 45 minutes.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147985] Probably because you guys vehemently defend it until the thread locks and we usually just get give up after a bit lol.[/QUOTE] Maybe they end up leaving and not coming back because they realize they have almost nothing to stand on other than "guns are scary because I saw them on the news". lol.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53147989]Clearly going after firearms hasn't worked, as seen in Chicago, Los Angeles and New York. Murder rates remain high even with a squeeze on firearms.[/QUOTE] New York violent crime has actually been the [URL="https://www.amny.com/news/nyc-homicides-record-low-1.15725051"]lowest[/URL] that it's been in decades. Assuming they aren't lying, it's probably a city worth examining.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;53148007]New York violent crime has actually been the [URL="https://www.amny.com/news/nyc-homicides-record-low-1.15725051"]lowest[/URL] than it's been in decades. Assuming they aren't lying, it's probably a city worth examining.[/QUOTE] That's a nationwide trend.
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[QUOTE=Zombinie;53148001]Maybe they end up leaving and not coming back because they realize they have almost nothing to stand on other than "guns are scary because I saw them on the news". lol.[/QUOTE] Disagree. Be honest, how many times has arguing with someone on SH changed your opinion?
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53148013]Disagree. Be honest, how many times has arguing with someone on SH changed your opinion?[/QUOTE] For me, it has a handful of times, actually.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53148013]Disagree. Be honest, how many times has arguing with someone on SH changed your opinion?[/QUOTE] Off the top of my head? When animal poaching was discussed (I believe the specific topic was re-opening private hunts, under the belief that the money raised would actually facilitate growth in the animal population, offsetting the animals killed, leading to overall good) and when Brexit was first initially discussed.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53148013]Disagree. Be honest, how many times has arguing with someone on SH changed your opinion?[/QUOTE] If you would've been paying attention in [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1593721]the thread you got banned for shitting up,[/url] you'd have noticed a lot of changed and fine-tuned opinions as a result of the otherwise healthy discussion you were interrupting.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53147984]The reason it seems like a pro-gun echo chamber is that there are only a handful of pro-gun posters that tend to be present in the threads and propose numerous arguments, while the host of anti-gun/pro-control posters only come in once or twice.[/QUOTE] I've always thought PD/SH has had a strong libertarian streak more than anything else. Which kind of dovetails with how many pro gun posters there are.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53148022]If you would've been paying attention in [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1593721]the thread you got banned for shitting up,[/url] you'd have noticed a lot of changed and fine-tuned opinions as a result of the otherwise healthy discussion you were interrupting.[/QUOTE] I don’t understand why you have such a toxic attitude towards me right now. Would you rather me agree with everything you say? [editline]21st February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Kiwi;53148016]Last time I checked this was Polidicks not SH.[/QUOTE] Polidicks is the new incarnation of the original SH though.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53148038]I don’t understand why you have such a toxic attitude towards me right now. Would you rather me agree with everything you say?[/QUOTE] I find it rather ironic that you're accusing someone else of having a toxic attitude
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53148038]I don’t understand why you have such a toxic attitude towards me right now. Would you rather me agree with everything you say? [editline]21st February 2018[/editline] Polidicks is the new incarnation of the original SH though.[/QUOTE] Honestly, it's the whole deliberate ignorance thing combined with the air-headed "I don't understand why everbody's yelling at me :<" shtick you keep doing. I don't care if you agree with me or not but if you want to have a conversation about it you need more than your feelings to go on. The way you keep rejecting statistics and off-handedly making comments such as, "there's no way trucks can be as deadly as semi automatic rifles" as if your brain wasn't even switched on gets under my skin real quick.
[QUOTE=Amber902;53148042]I find it rather ironic that you're accusing someone else of having a toxic attitude[/QUOTE] Not to get too off topic but to be candid, SH has always been filled with extremely toxic posters. I’m not an angel but the regulars are typically fully entrenched in their views, extremely passive aggressive, and snarky. I’m saying this as a 12 year Facepunch vet and I’m sure you’re already well aware.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53148045]Honestly, it's the whole deliberate ignorance thing combined with the air-headed "I don't understand why everbody's yelling at me :<" shtick you keep doing. I don't care if you agree with me or not but if you want to have a conversation about it you need more than your feelings to go on. The way you keep rejecting statistics and off-handedly making comments such as, "there's no way trucks can be as deadly as semi automatic rifles" as if your brain wasn't even switched on gets under my skin real quick.[/QUOTE] I don’t know where you’re getting this feelings stuff from but I think you’re entirely misreading my posts. To address your “trucks” point you brought up, the incident rate of someone using trucks as a means of mass murder in America is significantly less than the use of firearms. You’re not going to see truck caused school/church/concert massacres significantly rise in America if semi auto rifles were banned.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53148056]I don’t know where you’re getting this feelings stuff from but I think you’re entirely misreading my posts. To address your “trucks” point you brought up, the incident rate of someone using trucks as a means of mass murder in America is significantly less than the use of firearms. You’re not going to see truck caused school/church/concert massacres significantly rise in America if semi auto rifles were banned.[/QUOTE] Oh boy [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147933]I think that your average civilian doesn’t need to have unfettered access to weaponry that can cause massive loss of life.[/quote] feeling [quote]The ease of access to these weapon systems make it incredibly easier for people to cause a massive lost of life, which is why we should restrict their access.[/QUOTE] citation needed (feeling) [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147939]If it prevents 15 more kids from being killed at school I’m all for it and this is where we differ. The struggle doesn’t end with semi auto weapons for me, but baby steps.[/QUOTE] conjecture based on feeling [QUOTE]But they are supported by reality..[/QUOTE] citation needed [quote]you’re extremely naive and mistaken if you think I’m the only person that feels this way when the majority of Americans are for increased gun legislation and semi auto bans.[/quote] feels [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147953]If you want to go down that road, the meaning of the 2nd Amendment was perverted by the NRA and other interest groups in the late 1900’s.[/QUOTE] citation needed [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147963]You’re nuts dude, you’re reading between the lines too much.[/quote] you made me do this [quote]I’m not retreating and I firmly believe in everything I’ve said in regards to gun control.[/quote] too bad you won't back up anything you say since it's always disproven instantly [quote]You cannot discount the fact that millions of Americans support increased gun legislation, including the same type of stuff I’m talking about.[/quote] feelings [quote]So this idea of me you have where I’m this crazy liberal spouting nonsense is innacurate since I’m NOT the only person in a America that feels this way. Maybe it seems like I am to you since SH is an echo chamber and especially when it comes to gun legislation.[/QUOTE] feelings feelings [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147969]So millions of Americans are wrong on gun control but Grenadian is right?[/QUOTE] MORE FEELINGS [QUOTE=InvaderNouga;53147973]I’m rather reasonable and have experience using these weapons.[/QUOTE] CITATION NEEDED [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not how you debate anything with anyone. You know better" - UncleJimmema))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53147482]I too believe in taking away people's entertainment over a single incident.[/QUOTE] Entertainment isn't that important
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53148070]Entertainment isn't that important[/QUOTE] It also isn't a right.
Banning bump stocks won't do anything to reduce crime we have already covered this. We need good education, reduced poverty level, increased opportunity and better access to better healthcare. Along with an overall greater positive societal outlook on the differences between human beings, their inherent important value, and given right to live equally. Most crime regarding firearms is committed with handguns, not rifles so there's no sense in attempted rifle bans and accessory bans that can be easily replicated through other means - other guns or accessories or even just they way the person controls said firearm, technique. I own a Colt AR-15, "high capacity" 30 round mags and even a drum magazine. You can bump fire at the hip without a special stock and honestly it's just about as accurate as said stock (it isn't accurate at all) since these are work arounds and not a change in the firing mechanism. Hell you can bump fire handguns. This is a feel good ban and does nothing except make the prices rise, the producers and distributors sell out of said item quickly cause the news, and more end up amongst the populace or stockpiled.
I don't see the point in banning bump stocks. You can do the same thing using your belt loop with 1 whole minute of practice. If you want to stop bullets from being fired at people you need to ban guns. That's it. There are no shootings if there's nothing to shoot with. And the second amendment CAN be nullified by a new amendment if Congress, the Senate, and States agreed to. They just don't want to, and the majority of americans don't either. (And even if we did that still leaves a heavily armed criminal element and an unarmed law abiding general public) But until that happens people are just going to have to deal with the shit. No amount of mental health funding and care, laws prohibiting accessories, bulk ammo purchases, high cap magazines, and anything short of banning firearms is going to stop shootings, and that's just the sad truth of the matter And I have the same mentality as a bunch of Americans who don't want to see the 2nd Amendment null. I'm not giving up my Glock if criminals are still running around with guns. Figure out a way to get them off the streets and then I'll hand it over
well there goes the legal status of rubber bands
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