Israeli PM "regrets" death as troops storm aid ships
68 replies, posted
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;22291418]Why aren't they showing when the boats are going toward the ships? Why aren't they showing the commandos storming/boarding the ship?
Why aren't they showing the confrontation before the whole mess?[/QUOTE]
That [b]is[/b] the video of them boarding the boat. Did you not watch it? It is extremely unlikely that there was any preceding provocation or hostilities simply due to the nature of the boarding - roping onto a ship packed with hostile groups of people who are/could potentially be armed is not smart.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;22291636]And this is [b]illegal[/b], this is international waters.[/QUOTE]
They were not in international waters.
No matter what you can't justify this. They didn't need the military, they could have just used tear gas or other tactics.
[QUOTE=David29;22291700]That [b]is[/b] the video of them boarding the boat. Did you not watch it? It is extremely unlikely that there was any preceding provocation or hostilities simply due to the nature of the boarding - roping onto a ship packed with hostile groups of people who are/could potentially be armed is not smart.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url]
[url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url]
[url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url]
[url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url]
[QUOTE]there you go, if you can use the israeli government footage, I can use this.
[/QUOTE]Did you watch the video? It doesn't show any evidence for Israeli boats firing upon the ship (and no, the reporter saying it does, w/o us even hearing any gun shots isn't evidence). It also claims a false claim (that the ship was in int. water). Try again.
[QUOTE]And by saying agenda, you imply I hate Israel as a whole, this is wrong. I support the existence of Israel, but I despise what they do to the Palestinians.[/QUOTE]
I definitly did not imply anything of that sort. What I claim is that you dismiss anything that contradicts your prespective of the situation and the way you [B]think[/B] it occured, which is derived by your prejuidce against the Israeli military.
[QUOTE]And this is [B]illegal[/B], this is international waters.[/QUOTE]
1. There are no int. water in the mediterrean sea.
2. The international law allows country to stop a ship that tries or intends to break a blockade.
[QUOTE]
I swear, Israeli can go ahead and do a Palestinian holocaust, and you'll [B]STILL[/B] support them.
[/QUOTE]
Nice strawman there, you are running out of valid claim aren't you?
[QUOTE]
No matter what you can't justify this. They didn't need the military, they could have just used tear gas or other tactics.
[/QUOTE]
They were armed with paintball guns as primary weapon. But they were lynched, as the video shows.
[QUOTE=Killerjc;22291704]No matter what you can't justify this. They didn't need the military, they could have just used tear gas or other tactics.[/QUOTE]
Too bad the riot police is only land-based.
[QUOTE=ohadeEyY;22291731]Did you watch the video? It doesn't show any evidence for Israeli boats firing upon the ship (and no, the reporter saying it does, w/o us even hearing any gun shots isn't evidence). It also claims a false claim (that the ship was in int. water). Try again.
I definitly did not imply anything of that sort. What I claim is that you dismiss anything that contradicts your prespective of the situation and the way you [B]think[/B] it occured, which is derived by your prejuidce against the Israeli military.
1. There are no int. water in the mediterrean sea.
2. The international law allows country to stop a ship that tries or intents to break a blockade.
Nice strawman there, you are running out of valid claim right?[/QUOTE]
No shots fired? What. Huh. Are you blind? Deaf?
Are you trolling me? I haven't seen such good trolling since thisispain going on such spree.
[url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url]
Now, take those Israeli propaganda headphones off and watch the video. Those loud pops aren't random
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;22291718][url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url]
[url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url]
[url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url]
[url]http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem[/url][/QUOTE]
That video, just as you did, incorrectly states that they were in international waters. Based on that, how can I take anything else they are saying as being correct.
Besides, I can apply the same logic to this video that you applied to the Israeli video - it doesn't show what happened prior to it. For all we know, they could have been the aggressors.
[QUOTE=David29;22291801]That video, just as you did, incorrectly states that they were in international waters. Based on that, how can I take anything else they are saying as being correct.
Besides, I can apply the same logic to this video that you applied to the Israeli video - it doesn't show what happened prior to it. For all we know, they could have been the aggressors.[/QUOTE]
I admit I may be wrong about the international law violation, but to say the can apply the same logic is the point of the video I'm posting. If the guy can continously post video from the [b]government[/b], I can post videos that is also biased, can i not?
[QUOTE]No shots fired? What. Huh. Are you blind? Deaf?
[/QUOTE]
I wonder whether you watched the whole video. At 7:00, the reporter says that the deaths have occured after the Israeli commandos landed upon the ship. And they've been lynched, as we've seen. I'm pretty sure that the shooting of the Israelis on the ship (surely just warning shooting (claiming that they shot from the boats to kill the mob while having their mates in between them would make you sound absurd) and nothing more.
Secondly, I admit I was wrong at first, I listened to the reporter and ignored the sound in the backround. What about the rest of my points, by the way?
[
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;22291844]I admit I may be wrong about the international law violation, but to say the can apply the same logic is the point of the video I'm posting. If the guy can continously post video from the [b]government[/b], I can post videos that is also biased, can i not?[/QUOTE]
Fine, of course you can. But I am allowed to criticise it, am I not?
I don't necessarily support Israel - they do dickish things that piss me off. However, I'm playing devil's advocate and when I see one video that shows IDF forces being provoked and another video that is making false claims (about them being in international waters) then I see nothing wrong in putting forward an argument.
[QUOTE=ohadeEyY;22291879]I wonder whether you watched the whole video. At 7:00, the reporter says that the deaths have occured after the Israeli commandos landed upon the ship. And they've been lynched, as we've seen. I'm pretty sure that the shooting of the Israelis on the ship (surely just warning shooting (claiming that they shot from the boats to kill the mob while having their mates in between them would make you sound absurd) and nothing more.
Secondly, I admit I was wrong at first, I listened to the reporter and ignored the sound in the backround. What about the rest of my points, by the way?
[[/QUOTE]
I did, first of all, before I argue, note that I have noting against you nor am I being too serious, this is the internet.
Second, there is no evidence these are warning shots, and even if they were, it was an incredible stupid and a dick move.
These 'weapons', are noting but household common items, and some needed to maintain the ship. Knives for foods, hammers for maintence, fireworks probably as celeberation or flares, and etc. The firebombs looked improvished, it didn't go off that much as it should've, it implies it was made in panic or in haste.
Third, these are human beings as passengers, they have emotions, instinct, and fragile. When you hear a bullet whizzing by, it implies a hot lead that make you bleed to death, no matter where it hits. They pulled up a white flag in panic and they got shot at again. They're not soldiers, they're activists, they can't be calm in situation where they might be shot or when they think the IDF doesn't care.
Of course, they're gonna defend themselves, it's human instinct, the moment when the IDF stormed, they attacked brutally because they don't want a hot lead inside their heads.
[QUOTE]
These 'weapons', are noting but household common items, and some needed to maintain the ship. Knives for foods, hammers for maintence, fireworks probably as celeberation or flares, and etc. The firebombs looked improvished, it didn't go off that much as it should've, it implies it was made in panic or in haste.
[/QUOTE]
1. Slingshots and jars filled with rocks indeed are all day usual household itams. Dozens of iron rods are as well (well you gotta make these kababs!), as well as the styled daggers. These are all usual items. Did I say slingshots?
These peace activists were blood-thristy, look at this footage taken from that ship's board a few days ago:
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded"][COLOR=#114477]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7O...layer_embedded[/COLOR][/URL]
[The Battle of Khaiber is a battle that occured about 1400 yeras ago in the Arabian Peninsula between a Jewish Tribe and Muhammad's army, in which the Jews were wiped out.]
They were provocative towards Israel, and they knew it. The Israeli military warned approaching ships that they will be boarded if they come any closer. They offer the ships a port that they can go to and be inspected, they refused. Israel also offered them to pass the aid the brought through the the Israeli border with Gaza Strip - as any [I]real[/I] humaniterian organizations do.
These guys were all out provocative, and the fact they attacked the Israeli soldiers demonstrates that. All of the other ships were peacefully escorted to Ashdod, without any troubles. Can you think of 1 logical reason the Israeli military wouldn't want it to be the same with 6th ship?
[QUOTE]Third, these are human beings as passengers, they have emotions, instinct, and fragile. When you hear a bullet whizzing by, it implies a hot lead that make you bleed to death, no matter where it hits. They pulled up a white flag in panic and they got shot at again. They're not soldiers, they're activists, they can't be calm in situation where they might be shot or when they think the IDF doesn't care.[/QUOTE]
The shot were made AFTER the commando landed the ship. Which means, AFTER the soldiers were attacked. And that lynch seems like a pretty organized event, no some random decision which was suprisignly and amazingly the same among all of the passangers. The fact they were already armed with rods, knives and firebombs demonstrates that.
I can't care anymore, if they killed islamic people... Fine soon some jews will die to from rockets. It's the way of religion fucked up.
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;22293020]I can't care anymore, if they killed islamic people... Fine soon some jews will die to from rockets. It's the way of religion fucked up.[/QUOTE]
this,
everyone will just suffer. Just how the middle east works.
They did attack the flotilla in international waters. Just about every news site reports that EXCEPT the Israeli ones. What a coincidence.
[QUOTE]They did attack the flotilla in international waters[/QUOTE]They didn't, as there are no international water in the meditrrean sea.
[QUOTE=ohadeEyY;22297068]They didn't, as there are no international water in the meditrrean sea.[/QUOTE]
It was.
The U.N, and BBC confirmed it was.
starpluck, if it is, perhaps you could provide a map showing where are the international waters in the Med? Because up to now no one was able to provide something like this.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22297614]starpluck, if it is, perhaps you could provide a map showing where are the international waters in the Med? Because up to now no one was able to provide something like this.[/QUOTE]
[URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10201165.stm[/URL]
[URL]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37423584/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa[/URL]
[URL]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html[/URL]
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/may/31/henning-mankell-israel-flotilla-gaza[/URL]
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/un-condemns-israel-assault-gaza-flotilla[/URL]
And the United Nations
I specifically asked for a map. I'm not saying I don't trust these sources, but seeing as I brought a map that proves there are no international waters in the Med, I don't think we should just take their words for granted (at least not until a full investigation on the matter has provided significant evidence).
I'm just saying that if there were indeed international waters in the Med, finding a map of them would be very, very easy.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;22291418]It's a video, owned, edited, and released by the Israeli government.
Why aren't they showing when the boats are going toward the ships? Why aren't they showing the commandos storming/boarding the ship?
Why aren't they showing the confrontation before the whole mess?[/QUOTE]
You're either a troll or an idiot. Maybe both, don't know, but either way, you're a dumbass.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22297719]I specifically asked for a map. I'm not saying I don't trust these sources, but seeing as I brought a map that proves there are no international waters in the Med, I don't think we should just take their words for granted (at least not until a full investigation on the matter has provided significant evidence).
I'm just saying that if there were indeed international waters in the Med, finding a map of them would be very, very easy.[/QUOTE]
Its international waters, the U.N etc is not wrong.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22297796]Its international waters, the U.N etc is not wrong.[/QUOTE]
shut up starpluck
WIKIPEDIA IS GOD
I'm not saying Wikipedia is wrong or the UN is wrong, I'm just saying that without a map it's kind of hard to believe.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22297906]I'm not saying Wikipedia is wrong or the UN is wrong, I'm just saying that without a map it's kind of hard to believe.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5489/irealol.png[/img]
There. A map just as reputable and well sourced as yours.
Upload it to Wikipedia and we'll see if it's accepted.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22297974][IMG]http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5489/irealol.png[/IMG]
There. A map just as reputable and well sourced as yours.[/QUOTE]
The sad part is that its true.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22298017]Upload it to Wikipedia and we'll see if it's accepted.[/QUOTE]
ahahaha
so the staff at wikipedia is more well versed in the subtleties of international politics than the fucking UN and every news organization on the internet
and you have the balls to call me stupid.
No, but at least in Wikipedia there are pictures and documentations proving their point. The UN only says there are international waters, but don't prove.
Listen guys you are really making fools of yourselves, if there were indeed international waters in the area, it would have been really, really easy to find pictures showing so, but you only say "oh what you don't trust the UN, that's stupid not trusting the UN!!!". I will trust the UN if I will see evidence showing its statements to be true.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22298070]No, but at least in Wikipedia there are pictures and documentations proving their point. The UN only says there are international waters, but don't prove.
Listen guys you are really making fools of yourselves, if there were indeed international waters in the area, it would have been really, really easy to find pictures showing so, but you only say "oh what you don't trust the UN, that's stupid not trusting the UN!!!". I will trust the UN if I will see evidence showing its statements to be true.[/QUOTE]
what the fuck
i totally found a map
i even posted it
you're the one who's saying that the wikipedia staff are the judges of all knowledge
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.