[QUOTE=davidofmk771;21530527]Don't you ever think that Agnostics and (knowing something I don't) Atheist were trying to, I dunno, help you? Maybe they were trying to help you get from behind religions back and go to the candle in the dark called science.[/QUOTE]
Nope, they tell me that they're not trying to convert me, not trying to help me, they just want to hang out and be friends.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;21530669]Nope, they tell me that they're not trying to convert me, not trying to help me, they just want to hang out and be friends.[/QUOTE]
So they aren't intolerant?
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21530668]They universe may or may not have always existed. This has no bearing what so ever on the existence of a god.[/QUOTE]
Well if the Big Bang happened, how did it happen?
[QUOTE=Shadaez;21530646]I know. At least I can realize that I'm a bit bias.
It makes sense, though. [b]It coming from someone who's less conservative makes it not seem as bad[/b], I suppose.[/QUOTE]
A wolf in sheep's clothing. Personally, I try to evaluate beliefs based on facts and truths, not who says them.
Why can't we keep the National Day of Prayer for religious people, it's not affecting atheists in anyway.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21530618]Agnostics believe you can't ever know if there is a god or not.[/QUOTE]
I would like to extend a heartfelt thanks to you for actually getting the definition of agnosticism correct. It's a refreshing change on this forum.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21530642]So it's okay because it's outside of your immediate living space. Because that stuff happens over there, and it isn't your problem.[/QUOTE]
I never said it's ok, I just don't see it around me, ever. I would love for a 100% tolerant world, but it isn't going to happen.
[QUOTE=Dr Pepper;21530697]Why can't we keep the National Day of Prayer for religious people, it's not affecting atheists in anyway.[/QUOTE]
Again, why have it, unconstitutional, etc.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;21530706]I never said it's ok, I just don't see it around me, ever. I would love for a 100% tolerant world, but it isn't going to happen.[/QUOTE]
Of course, for people will always hate others for plain silly reasons.
[QUOTE=Dr Pepper;21530697]Why can't we keep the National Day of Prayer for religious people, it's not affecting atheists in anyway.[/QUOTE]
Constitution
it's a document
important one at that
it doesn't like this
constitution angry
we should listen
[QUOTE=Dr Pepper;21530697]Why can't we keep the National Day of Prayer for religious people, it's not affecting atheists in anyway.[/QUOTE]
Because it's unconstitutional and thus sets a precedent that we can just ignore the constitution?
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21530729]Because it's unconstitutional and thus sets a precedent that we can just ignore the constitution?[/QUOTE]
"Hey guys, no more free speech, sorry lol"
[QUOTE=davidofmk771;21530713]
Of course, for people will always hate others for plain silly reasons.[/QUOTE]
Yep.
[QUOTE=davidofmk771;21530771]"Hey guys, no more free speech, sorry lol"[/QUOTE]
Someone needs to explain to the conservatives that the constitution is what lets them have guns, so when something unconstitutional discriminates against atheists it's kind of like atheists are having their guns taken away. Maybe they'll relate better to that.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21530702]I would like to extend a heartfelt thanks to you for actually getting the definition of agnosticism correct. It's a refreshing change on this forum.[/QUOTE]
No problem. I'm glad I got it right too. :v:
[editline]06:53PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21530804]Someone needs to explain to the conservatives that the constitution is what lets them have guns, so when something unconstitutional discriminates against atheists it's kind of like atheists are having their guns taken away. Maybe they'll relate better to that.[/QUOTE]
That or they will interpret it as the government coming to take their guns. :ohdear:
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21530691]A wolf in sheep's clothing. Personally, I try to evaluate beliefs based on facts and truths, not who says them.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but at the same time it's like he knows it's a bit in the grey area, knows it would make certain people, who are likely republicans, happy. Maybe then they will approve of him more and he can get reelected. I see so many Palin 2012 stickers that I might start believing the world will end.
Hey genius, you can't fight it. It's unconstitutional. Best you can do is hope the whole supreme court dies in a plane crash and the next bunch don't know what they're doing.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;21531251]Hey genius, you can't fight it. It's unconstitutional. Best you can do is hope the whole supreme court dies in a plane crash and the next bunch don't know what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
Oh Obama, try not to fuck it up please.
This is a fantastic idea by Obama.
Most of his hard-core detractors are what we would call "bible-bashers", hard core religous types that will fight everything he will ever try to do. But if he fights for a national day of prayer ( Without nesessarily winning ), the religous types can't really go against that and he gains brownie points on the right wing.
[QUOTE=Killoch0;21531412]This is a fantastic idea by Obama.
Most of his hard-core detractors are what we would call "bible-bashers", hard core religous types that will fight everything he will ever try to do. But if he fights for a national day of prayer ( Without nesessarily winning ), the religous types can't really go against that and he gains brownie points on the right wing.[/QUOTE]
But it will tarnish his image by making him look like he doesn't even understand his countries constitution.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;21529443]
no, it's unconstitutional. violates the second and third prong of the Lemon Test, advances religious causes, and it also is showing an entanglement between the church and the state
I mean this is establishing a purely religious national holiday, it's pretty clear to see that it violates the constitution[/QUOTE]
See, this is a problem of mine. If they outlaw national holidays like this, they're basically advancing atheist causes. If they establish national holidays like this, they're basically advancing religious causes.
I'm religious personally, but I do think either way's unequal.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21531761]See, this is a problem of mine. If they outlaw national holidays like this, they're basically advancing atheist causes. If they establish national holidays like this, they're basically advancing religious causes.
I'm religious personally, but I do think either way's unequal.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between secular and atheistic, a surprise to you it may be. Having a national holiday that supports religion is non-seular, and is biased towards atheists. Having a National Atheism Day would be biased for atheists, and against religious people. Having nothing of the sort would be the government's way of saying they they don't have any official opinion one way or the other, which would be the kind of secular attitude that we should be striving for.
And of couse this would go a way to advancing "atheist causes". You could easily say that black people pushing for equal rights during the sixties was the "advancement of black causes", but it's not the same as asking for preferential treatment.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21531761]See, this is a problem of mine. If they outlaw national holidays like this, they're basically advancing atheist causes. If they establish national holidays like this, they're basically advancing religious causes.
I'm religious personally, but I do think either way's unequal.[/QUOTE]
How about we not make national religion or atheist day.
Oh yeah. And what atheist cause? Promoting science and logic? I'm so scared.
[QUOTE=davidofmk771;21529054]Because Christmas isn't a national holiday.[/QUOTE]
It is :downs:
[QUOTE=TITLE 5, PART III, Subpart E, CHAPTER 61, SUBCHAPTER I, § 6103. Holidays][highlight](a) The following are legal public holidays: [/highlight]
New Year’s Day, January 1.
Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr., the third Monday in January.
Washington’s Birthday, the third Monday in February.
Memorial Day, the last Monday in May.
Independence Day, July 4.
Labor Day, the first Monday in September.
Columbus Day, the second Monday in October.
Veterans Day, November 11.
Thanksgiving Day, the fourth Thursday in November.
[highlight]Christmas Day, December 25.[/highlight]
(b) For the purpose of statutes relating to pay and leave of employees, with respect to a legal public holiday and any other day declared to be a holiday by Federal statute or Executive order, the following rules apply:
(1) Instead of a holiday that occurs on a Saturday, the Friday immediately before is a legal holiday for—
(A) employees whose basic workweek is Monday through Friday; and
(B) the purpose of section 6309 [1] of this title.
(2) Instead of a holiday that occurs on a regular weekly non-workday of an employee whose basic workweek is other than Monday through Friday, except the regular weekly non-workday administratively scheduled for the employee instead of Sunday, the workday immediately before that regular weekly nonworkday is a legal public holiday for the employee.
(3) Instead of a holiday that is designated under subsection (a) to occur on a Monday, for an employee at a duty post outside the United States whose basic workweek is other than Monday through Friday, and for whom Monday is a regularly scheduled workday, the legal public holiday is the first workday of the workweek in which the Monday designated for the observance of such holiday under subsection (a) occurs.
This subsection, except subparagraph (B) of paragraph (1), does not apply to an employee whose basic workweek is Monday through Saturday.
(c) January 20 of each fourth year after 1965, Inauguration Day, is a legal public holiday for the purpose of statutes relating to pay and leave of employees as defined by section 2105 of this title and individuals employed by the government of the District of Columbia employed in the District of Columbia, Montgomery and Prince Georges Counties in Maryland, Arlington and Fairfax Counties in Virginia, and the cities of Alexandria and Falls Church in Virginia. When January 20 of any fourth year after 1965 falls on Sunday, the next succeeding day selected for the public observance of the inauguration of the President is a legal public holiday for the purpose of this subsection.
(d)
(1) For purposes of this subsection—
(A) the term “compressed schedule” has the meaning given such term by section 6121 (5); and
(B) the term “adverse agency impact” has the meaning given such term by section 6131 (b).
(2) An agency may prescribe rules under which employees on a compressed schedule may, in the case of a holiday that occurs on a regularly scheduled non-workday for such employees, and notwithstanding any other provision of law or the terms of any collective bargaining agreement, be required to observe such holiday on a workday other than as provided by subsection (b), if the agency head determines that it is necessary to do so in order to prevent an adverse agency impact.[/QUOTE]
Well, at least I can be a grown up and not insult you, but rather thank you for enlightening me on this subject. Thank you for teaching me something new.
[QUOTE=davidofmk771;21531913]How about we not make national religion or atheist day.
Oh yeah. And what atheist cause? Promoting science and logic? I'm so scared.[/QUOTE]
Because declaring a day recognizing the Religious practice of prayer is totally declaring a National Religion despite the fact the act of prayer isn't exclusive to one religion. :downs:
Should have called it a national day of reflection instead. That seems more politically correct for a sectarian government.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;21532149]Because making a Holiday recognizing Religion is totally declaring a National Religion despite the fact hundreds of religions other then Christianity include praying. :downs:[/QUOTE]
I am not talking about Christianity, I am talking about religion. This. Is. Unconstitutional. And stop using that emote, it only makes you look more like a jackass.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;21532159]Should have called it a national day of reflection instead. That seems more politically correct for a sectarian government.[/QUOTE]
Prayer and reflection aren't really the same.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;21532149]Because declaring a day recognizing the Religious practice of prayer is totally declaring a National Religion despite the fact the act of prayer isn't exclusive to one religion. :downs:[/QUOTE]
It's exclusive to religion.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;21532099]It is :downs:[/QUOTE]
Yes, but that document defines Christmas as simply a public/statutory holiday. There's nothing religious about a public holiday.
"National Prayer Day", by simply existing, is a religious holiday.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21532312]Yes, but that document defines Christmas as simply a public/statutory holiday. There's nothing religious about a public holiday.
"National Prayer Day", by simply existing, is a religious holiday.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
To both of the above.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;21531761]See, this is a problem of mine. If they outlaw national holidays like this, they're basically advancing atheist causes. If they establish national holidays like this, they're basically advancing religious causes.
I'm religious personally, but I do think either way's unequal.[/QUOTE]
There aren't really any atheist causes though. You won't see many atheist charities for example, because atheists are pretty individualistic.
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