White House to fight for National Day of Prayer - Polidicks

I'm ashamed to be atheist because of people who try to convert religious people into disbelieving. I think religion can be a great thing for a community, and if I ever had children I'd like a place similar to a church to be a part of the community with. I think it was originally created to keep people from doing bad things, and to persuade people into doing things they otherwise wouldn't. The world would likely be a better place if everyone were moderately religious, without all the chavs, douchebags, and whatever else. If there turns out to be a heaven, I do believe that I would be let in, and that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe it exists. I'm a good person regardless of my beliefs. [editline]03:46AM[/editline] I just thought I'd say that after some of the idiotic comments by a few members. I have also thought about the topic of weather or not a "National Prayer Day" should exist, and I don't think it should. It is a bit of a grey area, though, since it isn't exclusive to one religion. Christmas is still worse, and I would prefer a prayer day over it.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;21544895]I'm ashamed to be atheist because of people who try to convert religious people into disbelieving. I think religion can be a great thing for a community, and if I ever had children I'd like a place similar to a church to be a part of the community with. I think it was originally created to keep people from doing bad things, and to persuade people into doing things they otherwise wouldn't. The world would likely be a better place if everyone were moderately religious, without all the chavs, douchebags, and whatever else. If there turns out to be a heaven, I do believe that I would be let in, and that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe it exists. I'm a good person regardless of my beliefs.[/QUOTE] Say that to all the burned "witches" and people on crosses as well, maybe also drop by a few decapitated heads and torture devices just to be polite.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;21544942]Say that to all the burned "witches" and people on crosses as well, maybe also drop by a few decapitated heads and torture devices just to be polite.[/QUOTE] "I think it was originally created to keep people from doing bad things, and to persuade people into doing things they otherwise wouldn't." [editline]03:49AM[/editline] And that isn't even relevant to this point in time.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;21544963]"I think it was originally created to keep people from doing bad things, and to persuade people into doing things they otherwise wouldn't." [editline]03:49AM[/editline] And that isn't even relevant to this point in time.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately as you may have discovered, the original intentions were greatly perverted.

[QUOTE=Alteir;21542974]Do you really expect him to admit he's anything BUT Christian? He would never have been voted in if he admitted otherwise.[/QUOTE] So now you're calling him a liar? You are attempting to defend facts you cannot provide proof for.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;21544895]I'm ashamed to be atheist because of people who try to convert religious people into disbelieving. I think religion can be a great thing for a community, and if I ever had children I'd like a place similar to a church to be a part of the community with. I think it was originally created to keep people from doing bad things, and to persuade people into doing things they otherwise wouldn't. The world would likely be a better place if everyone were moderately religious, without all the chavs, douchebags, and whatever else. If there turns out to be a heaven, I do believe that I would be let in, and that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe it exists. I'm a good person regardless of my beliefs. [editline]03:46AM[/editline] I just thought I'd say that after some of the idiotic comments by a few members. I have also thought about the topic of weather or not a "National Prayer Day" should exist, and I don't think it should. It is a bit of a grey area, though, since it isn't exclusive to one religion. Christmas is still worse, and I would prefer a prayer day over it.[/QUOTE] Well, first of all, religion isn't really a great thing for a community. It doesn't help at all really. Morals don't come from religion. And it wasn't created to keep people from doing bad things, it was first seen as a primitive concept of an afterlife. Decorating and honoring the dead. Look at the world, that is moderately religious. Again, people create morals, not religion. If you get your morals from a book saying that homosexuals are bad and if you aren't *insert religion in question here* you will burn forever, you should take a look at what you believe and are teaching others. Maybe living in redneck land has made me hate religion. They use it as an excuse to hate. If everyone grew up and noticed that religion as a plain silly concept, maybe then we can be happy, but when people are still taught these things instead of just morals they stick to, it becomes a problem. It will never change, because somebody will always use it to justify hate. they will use it as an excuse to destroy. That is why it is bad. But what if you don't believe in that? Then why believe in a god? Why believe in a religion?

[QUOTE=davidofmk771;21545334]Well, first of all, religion isn't really a great thing for a community. It doesn't help at all really. Morals don't come from religion. And it wasn't created to keep people from doing bad things, it was first seen as a primitive concept of an afterlife. Decorating and honoring the dead. Look at the world, that is moderately religious. Again, people create morals, not religion. If you get your morals from a book saying that homosexuals are bad and if you aren't *insert religion in question here* you will burn forever, you should take a look at what you believe and are teaching others. Maybe living in redneck land has made me hate religion. They use it as an excuse to hate. If everyone grew up and noticed that religion as a plain silly concept, maybe then we can be happy, but when people are still taught these things instead of just morals they stick to, it becomes a problem. It will never change, because somebody will always use it to justify hate. they will use it as an excuse to destroy. That is why it is bad. But what if you don't believe in that? Then why believe in a god? Why believe in a religion?[/QUOTE] I would also like to throw in this little thing: [I]"[/I]Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurius (341-270 BC)

I don't hate religion, I just don't like most of the people that believe in it. People aren't bigots because they're religious, they just use it as an excuse to be. They're also stupid. I think religion, overall, has a positive effect on a community and I do think that morals are taught mostly through religion today. What other places does a community have to gather, similarly to a church? I live in Washington state and we're mostly a liberal democratic state.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;21545626]I don't hate religion, I just don't like most of the people that believe in it. People aren't bigots because they're religious, they just use it as an excuse to be. They're also stupid. I think religion, overall, has a positive effect on a community and I do think that morals are taught mostly through religion today. What other places does a community have to gather, similarly to a church? I live in Washington state and we're mostly a liberal democratic state.[/QUOTE] Religion really isn't a good source of morals. There's much better places for morals than a religious background.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;21545626]I don't hate religion, I just don't like most of the people that believe in it. People aren't bigots because they're religious, they just use it as an excuse to be. They're also stupid. I think religion, overall, has a positive effect on a community and I do think that morals are taught mostly through religion today. What other places does a community have to gather, similarly to a church? I live in Washington state and we're mostly a liberal democratic state.[/QUOTE] A community center?

Religion may not create morals, but it can motivate people to do good deeds or prevent from doing wrong ones. [editline]07:51AM[/editline] It's false hope, but even the falsest of hope makes a positive difference.

[QUOTE=Offline;21545684]Religion may not create morals, but it can motivate people to do good deeds or prevent from doing wrong ones. [editline]07:51AM[/editline] It's false hope, but even the falsest of hope makes a positive difference.[/QUOTE] And in the same vein it can influence people to do the wrong things. Any group that has vagueness allows for huge chances for any amount of judgements to be passed on it.

[QUOTE=Offline;21545684]Religion may not create morals, but it can motivate people to do good deeds or prevent from doing wrong ones. [editline]07:51AM[/editline] It's false hope, but even the falsest of hope makes a positive difference.[/QUOTE] Is that why those Catholic priest raped those kids?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;21545702]And in the same vein it can influence people to do the wrong things. Any group that has vagueness allows for huge chances for any amount of judgements to be passed on it.[/QUOTE] That is also true, and why I'm atheist. [QUOTE=davidofmk771;21545713]Is that why those Catholic priest raped those kids?[/QUOTE] Catholic is too far in the other direction. They do have problems, every other Christian knows it.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;21528488]He's going to piss off a lot of Atheists, that's for sure.[/QUOTE] There shall be armchair protests across the land

[QUOTE=Jenkem;21530034]ITT: Sore atheists are forcing others to be open minded. Ignorance is amusing. This holiday isn't forcing anyone to believe anything. Hindus are represented as equally as Christians, and to declare the national day of prayer unconstitutional would also be to deem Christmas unconstitutional. Christmas isn't forced on anyone either, and I dare say it's presence as a widely-recognized holiday is more invasive. But nobody wants to toss Christmas out.[/QUOTE] nope. try again

how about a national day of shut the fuck up where atheists don't talk to religious people and vice versa

[QUOTE=JDK721;21528601]Stop it. It's unconstitutional and thus does not belong in this country.[/QUOTE] It doesn't say anywhere "pray or be arrested", I don't really get where you're coming from with 'unconstitutional'. I'm not religious in any sense but I don't see what this would affect, it's just a name for a national day. What about Christmas? That's a religious holiday but even non-religious people celebrate it. Since the country largely endorses the holidays, should we consider it unconstitutional as well? I mean I don't get the point of it either, but it's not going to do anything bad.

I would consider Christmas greatly divorced from any religion in the rest of the non-primarily-Christian world. (and "non-Christian" should include the US as it is written - but in real life it doesn't work out like that.)

"National Day Of Prayer" doesn't mean you're forced by law to start prasin da lawd. If you don't want to, then don't. Although seeing it removed would be favorable. [editline]10:01AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Shadaez;21544895]I'm ashamed to be atheist because of people who try to convert religious people into disbelieving. I think religion can be a great thing for a community, and if I ever had children I'd like a place similar to a church to be a part of the community with. I think it was originally created to keep people from doing bad things, and to persuade people into doing things they otherwise wouldn't. The world would likely be a better place if everyone were moderately religious, without all the chavs, douchebags, and whatever else. If there turns out to be a heaven, I do believe that I would be let in, and that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe it exists. I'm a good person regardless of my beliefs. [editline]03:46AM[/editline] I just thought I'd say that after some of the idiotic comments by a few members. I have also thought about the topic of weather or not a "National Prayer Day" should exist, and I don't think it should. It is a bit of a grey area, though, since it isn't exclusive to one religion. Christmas is still worse, and I would prefer a prayer day over it.[/QUOTE] This x1000000

[QUOTE=HubmaN;21550282]I would consider Christmas greatly divorced from any religion in the rest of the non-primarily-Christian world. (and "non-Christian" should include the US as it is written - but in real life it doesn't work out like that.)[/QUOTE] Right, and as it's been said, this "national day of prayer" doesn't back any one religion.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;21544942]Say that to all the burned "witches" and people on crosses as well, maybe also drop by a few decapitated heads and torture devices just to be polite.[/QUOTE] The church did not believe in witch-hunting and distanced itself from the practice. Very few witches were burned at the stake - most were hanged. The vast, vast majority of the time it was just a town caught in mass hysteria.

[QUOTE=gnome;21550487]Right, and as it's been said, this "national day of prayer" doesn't back any one religion.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter if it doesn't back one specific religion. Also, Christmas isn't a national holiday.

Ya know, on one hand, a majority of people are religious and would want this. On the other, I don't want to give any more ammunition to those who claim that this is a "Christian" country.

It may as well be. And it does matter because it's hardly endorsing anything other than the concept of prayer. And what matters more is the fact that this isn't enforced, and it really doesn't mean anything at all. Please explain what harm this can do. Again, I see no reason to have this day, but I think you're blowing it out of proportion.

[QUOTE=gnome;21550671]It may as well be.[/QUOTE] It would be unconstitutional so no it shouldn't be. [QUOTE=gnome;21550671]And it does matter because it's hardly endorsing anything other than the concept of prayer.[/QUOTE] The government has no right telling people how or when to prayer. People can still prayer if they want, but the government should not be involved at all. [QUOTE=gnome;21550671]And what matters more is the fact that this isn't enforced, and it really doesn't mean anything at all. Please explain what harm this can do.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter. It can do harm because it's a precedent that we can just ignore the Constitution.

Don't you guys already celebrate easter and christmas? If so, why shouldn't you be capable of celebrating yet another religion based holiday?

[quote=davidofmk771;21528622]this just seems like a complete waste of a days tittle. Why not make it "national logic day" or something. "national robot wars day" would also be acceptable.[/quote] this

[QUOTE=JDK721;21550782]It would be unconstitutional so no it shouldn't be. The government has no right telling people how or when to prayer. People can still prayer if they want, but the government should not be involved at all. It doesn't matter. It can do harm because it's a precedent that we can just ignore the Constitution.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it should be, but you know what forget the Christmas thing that was probably a bad example. You're dancing around the issue though, you've yet to support your opinion of it being unconstitutional or harmful. They're not telling anyone when to pray or when not to pray, they're just labeling a day "prayer day" and that's about it. Just because they put a title on a date doesn't mean anything. They're not holding a gun to your head or dangling a legislation in front of you that says "pray or suffer the consequences". It's like having a national cake day. People may celebrate it and eat all the cake they want, but if you want to ditch out on that and eat pie, you have every right. Or you could not eat at all, just like you don't have to pray on a prayer day. We may as well not have independance day because someone feels like their right to not like the country is being infringed upon.

[QUOTE=gnome;21550832]I'm not saying it should be, but you know what forget the Christmas thing that was probably a bad example. You're dancing around the issue though, you've yet to support your opinion of it being unconstitutional or harmful. They're not telling anyone when to pray or when not to pray, they're just labeling a day "prayer day" and that's about it. Just because they put a title on a date doesn't mean anything. They're not holding a gun to your head or dangling a legislation in front of you that says "pray or suffer the consequences". It's like having a national cake day. People may celebrate it and eat all the cake they want, but if you want to ditch out on that and eat pie, you have every right. Or you could not eat at all, just like you don't have to pray on a prayer day. We may as well not have independance day because someone feels like their right to not like the country is being infringed upon.[/QUOTE] Did you even read the ruling by the judge? [quote]In my view of the case law, government involvement in prayer may be consistent with the establishment clause when the government's conduct serves a significant secular purpose and is not a "call for religious action on the part of citizens." McCreary County, Kentucky v. American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, 545 U.S. 844, 877 (2005). Unfortunately, (section) 119 cannot meet that test. It goes beyond mere "acknowledgment" of religion because its sole purpose is to encourage all citizens to engage in prayer, an inherently religious exercise that serves no secular function in this context. In this instance, the government has taken sides on a matter that must be left to individual conscience. "When the government associates one set of religious beliefs with the state and identifies nonadherents as outsiders, it encroaches upon the individual's decision about whether and how to worship." McCreary County, 545 U.S. at 883 (O'Connor, J., concurring). Accordingly, I conclude that (section) 119 violates the establishment clause. It bears emphasizing that a conclusion that the establishment clause prohibits the government from endorsing a religious exercise is not a judgment on the value of prayer or the millions of Americans who believe in its power. No one can doubt the important role that prayer plays in the spiritual life of a believer. In the best of times, people may pray as a way of expressing joy and thanks; during times of grief, many find that prayer provides comfort. Others may pray to give praise, seek forgiveness, ask for guidance or find the truth. "And perhaps it is not too much to say that since the beginning of th[e] history [of humans] many people have devoutly believed that 'More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of.'" Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421, 433 (1962). However, recognizing the importance of prayer to many people does not mean that the government may enact a statute in support of it, any more than the government may encourage citizens to fast during the month of Ramadan, attend a synagogue, purify themselves in a sweat lodge or practice rune magic. In fact, it is because the nature of prayer is so personal and can have such a powerful effect on a community that the government may not use its authority to try to influence an individual's decision whether and when to pray[/quote] Also, Independence Day is a federal holiday meaning it is RECOGNIZED by the government. It has a secular purpose, whereas National Day of Prayer does not.