[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620755]Here we go, somebody glances over a post instead of reading it and starts throwing mud around. Notice I said that these courts are recognised in Muslim communities in the UK and not by the UK legal system. Next time you think about taking a bite read the post properly first.
Its said that both parties have to agree to go through these courts. It is fair to say in some cases the women are not given a choice despite the fact they afre UK residents. Some sections of the Islamic community really are cut off socially and culturally from the western states they live in. Sad times for womens rights.[/QUOTE]
No it's not fair to say that at all. Give a citation or stop talking out of your ass.
[quote]
Edit: Just noticed who that is, FP troll, nice try.[/quote]
look at the pot calling the kettle black.
-snip-
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40620774]No it's not fair to say that at all. Give a citation or stop talking out of your ass.[/QUOTE]
So its not fair to say that in some cases in the UK, muslim women are not given the freedom to settle a domestic case in a proper UK legal court over a Sharia one? LOL. You think in 'some' cases they are offered an option?
I grew up in an ethnically diverse area of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindu's and I saw first hand arranged marriages and women being treated as second class citizens. Theres some of their culture I have great admiration for but their treatment of women isn't part of it.
Edit: Amazing, the BBC just did a docu on it. [url]http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3682/uk-sharia-courts[/url] Theres your source.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620755]Here we go, somebody glances over a post instead of reading it and starts throwing mud around. Notice I said that these courts are recognised in Muslim communities in the UK and not by the UK legal system. Next time you think about taking a bite read the post properly first.[/QUOTE]
it has no legal binding which you implied it was when you said:
"Legal, politics and religion should be kept totally separate."
not to mention you also said: "the government should shut them down". why would the government shut it down if its a private non-legal issue involving two people? women's rights means giving women the right to practice something even if YOU dont agree with it bud
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620755]Its said that both parties have to agree to go through these courts. It is fair to say in some cases the women are not given a choice despite the fact they afre UK residents. Some sections of the Islamic community really are cut off socially and culturally from the western states they live in. Sad times for womens rights.[/QUOTE]
that's not solved by having the government step in. telling women they can't practice their religion is as much of a denial of their rights as forcing them into one is.
the islamic community is extremely sexist towards women but that's got nothing to do with divorce court.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620755]Edit: Just noticed who that is, FP troll, nice try.[/QUOTE]
yea im a troll because im calling you out on your callous and alarmist post
wf/e jewdozer
[QUOTE=thisispain;40620851]it has no legal binding which you implied it was when you said:
"Legal, politics and religion should be kept totally separate."
not to mention you also said: "the government should shut them down". why would the government shut it down if its a private non-legal issue involving two people? women's rights means giving women the right to practice something even if YOU dont agree with it bud
that's not solved by having the government step in. telling women they can't practice their religion is as much of a denial of their rights as forcing them into one is.
the islamic community is extremely sexist towards women but that's got nothing to do with divorce court.
yea im a troll because im calling you out on your callous and alarmist post
wf/e jewdozer[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3682/uk-sharia-courts[/url]
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620811]So its not fair to say that in some cases in the UK, muslim women are not given the freedom to settle a domestic case in a proper UK legal court over a Sharia one? LOL. You think in 'some' cases they are offered an option?
I grew up in an ethnically diverse area of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindu's and I saw first hand arranged marriages and women being treated as second class citizens. Theres some of their culture I have great admiration for but their treatment of women isn't part of it.[/QUOTE]
yeah well I grew up in a town full of Jews and I could never get any pork!
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620865][url]http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3682/uk-sharia-courts[/url][/QUOTE]
rate dumb and post whatever you want, i have a problem with your wording and reasoning
[QUOTE=thisispain;40619367]for divorce cases when BOTH parties consent yes, it has no real legal binding
i know your name is "jewdozer" and you specialise in spastic nonsense, but please dont muddy the issue with bullshit thx[/QUOTE]
In the UK maybe, but I remember a case in Europe (Or a nordic country) that the judge ruled (it was a rape IIRC) under Sharia law because both involved where Muslims (and both were promoting community cohesion
Also:
[video=youtube;RfJ6FpabknY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJ6FpabknY[/video]
[QUOTE=thisispain;40620877]rate dumb and post whatever you want, i have a problem with your wording and reasoning[/QUOTE]
You called bullshit a bit too quickly and I made a defence. End of.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40620878]In the UK maybe, but I remember a case in Europe (Or a nordic country) that the judge ruled (it was a rape IIRC) under Sharia law because both involved where Muslims (and both were promoting community cohesion [/QUOTE]
you have to be specific because i dont know what you mean
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40620878]Also:
[video=youtube;RfJ6FpabknY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJ6FpabknY[/video][/QUOTE]
im not gonna watch a video
Pat Condell is a secularist and is often misunderstood as a right wing racist. He is leaning to the right but never incites hatred. The extremists and beliefs of Islam are often the focus of his attacks and is a voice for a lot of us who fight for the freedom of expression and wish religion would stay out of state affairs.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620891]You called bullshit a bit too quickly and I made a defence. End of.[/QUOTE]
you didnt defend anything you backpedaled and posted a link
Womens rights in the UK has very clearly not been compromised and neither has the separation of church and state (however much of that there is in a nation with a state religion)
stop being so alarmist and go back to drawing dismembered cocks or w/e
[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620944]Pat Condell is a secularist and is often misunderstood as a right wing racist. He is leaning to the right but never incites hatred. The extremists and beliefs of Islam are often the focus of his attacks and is a voice for a lot of us who fight for the freedom of expression and wish religion would stay out of state affairs.[/QUOTE]
good 4 him
still dont care about anything he has to say
[QUOTE=thisispain;40620905]im not gonna watch a video[/QUOTE]
It's one of the most disgusting videos I've seen lately. It boils down to "Islamaphobia isn't real, keep the darkies out of my country but I'm totally not racist"
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620944]Pat Condell is a secularist and is often misunderstood as a right wing racist. He is leaning to the right but never incites hatred. The extremists and beliefs of Islam are often the focus of his attacks and is a voice for a lot of us who fight for the freedom of expression and wish religion would stay out of state affairs.[/QUOTE]
Pat Condell is a blithering jackass whose admirable secularist qualities are undermined by the fact that he's astoundingly ignorant, xenophobic, and racist.
[QUOTE=thisispain;40620960]you didnt defend anything you backpedaled and posted a link
Womens rights in the UK has very clearly not been compromised and neither has the separation of church and state (however much of that there is in a nation with a state religion)
stop being so alarmist and go back to drawing dismembered cocks or w/e
[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]
[/QUOTE]
So women being forced into religious Sharia law courts by their families or communities isn't an attack on womens rights? I also never said anything about the church but simply said matters of law should not have religion involved.
Sharia courts might not have legal status in the UK but that doesn't change a thing for women who are trapped in these situations where the state law plays second place to their own religious courts. On this basis I called for these 'courts' to be shut down.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40621032]that doesn't change a thing for women who are trapped in these situations where the state law plays second place to their own religious[/QUOTE]
no the state law does NOT play 2nd place thats the point
this means that women themselves are getting abused and do not seek help. that's a problem that cannot be fixed by shutting down or inciting alarmist rhetoric against muslims.
in a free society there has to be subtlety or else it's not free, its totalitarian. muslim women have to be empowered to seek their own rights and the rhetoric that you expressed in your post and what pat condell expresses do the exact [b]opposite[/b]
a muslim woman who cant express her religious beliefs in the way she wants is not a free woman. this applies both ways.
[QUOTE=thisispain;40621094]no the state law does NOT play 2nd place thats the point
this means that women themselves are getting abused and do not seek help. that's a problem that cannot be fixed by shutting down or inciting alarmist rhetoric against muslims.
in a free society there has to be subtlety or else it's not free, its totalitarian. muslim women have to be empowered to seek their own rights and the rhetoric that you expressed in your post and what pat condell expresses do the exact [b]opposite[/b]
a muslim woman who cant express her religious beliefs in the way she wants is not a free woman. this applies both ways.[/QUOTE]
To a degree you are right, a Muslim woman should be allowed to express her beliefs as she wishes. If she wants to cover her face in public, be denied a driving licence and have less rights than a man in a Sharia court then thats fine. I mentioned I grew up in a town where this sort of attitude towards women was pandemic and I can tell you from personal experience with these people that many of the girls living in these communities are not happy with this situation.
It's very easy to talk about empowering women when things like honour killings, threats to ship them off to other countries to wed their older cousins and domestic violence stop them from speaking out. Just last year one of my mother's westernised, Muslim work collegues was forced to fly out to Pakistan and wed her cousin. He now lives in the UK and treats her appallingly. Her parents should be ashamed of themselves. She is a prisoner in her own community but loves her faith.
I speak about what I see, not from speculation.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40621194]To a degree you are right, a Muslim woman should be allowed to express her beliefs as she wishes. If she wants to cover her face in public, be denied a driving licence and have less rights than a man in a Sharia court then thats fine. I mentioned I grew up in a town where this sort of attitude towards women was pandemic and I can tell you from personal experience with these people that many of the girls living in these communities are not happy with this situation.
It's very easy to talk about empowering women when things like honour killings, threats to ship them off to other countries to wed their older cousins and domestic violence stop them from speaking out. Just last year one of my mother's westernised, Muslim work collegues was forced to fly out to Pakistan and wed her cousin. He now lives in the UK and treats her appallingly. Her parents should be ashamed of themselves. She is a prisoner in her own community but loves her faith.
I speak about what I see, not from speculation.[/QUOTE]
ok i understand that, but i still dont think inciting rhetoric against muslims will help muslim women in anyway and i think thats important to note if the intention is to help them in the first place
i think community outreach would be far more effective than government interference, especially because that is the primary way to radicalise a population; making them feel like they're being targeted by a greater power.
fuck now im respecting jewdozer's position goddamnit
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40621007]Pat Condell is a blithering jackass whose admirable secularist qualities are undermined by the fact that he's astoundingly ignorant, xenophobic, and racist.[/QUOTE]
In what video does he make himself out to be Xenophobic or racist ?
Last I checked Islam was a religion, not a race.
And just because he points out the blatant hypocrisy, sexism, homophobia, and distaste for freedoms; their way of trying to make everybody apologetic about muslims: you see fit to call him Xenophobic ?
Also, your post sounds like some of the hate mail Richard Dawkins gets:[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuowNcuGsc[/url]
Forcing a person into an arranged marriage overseas is now against UK law. I think forcing a woman into a religious law court without the option of a secular legal court should also be against the law. It denies a persons human right to be heard by a court neutrally, without the influence of a masculine favoured religious law book.
My opinion is simple, keep religion away from matters of law, whether that court is legally binding or not.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40621348]Forcing a person into an arranged marriage overseas is now against UK law. I think forcing a woman into a religious law court without the option of a secular legal court should also be against the law. It denies a persons human right to be heard by a court neutrally, without the influence of a masculine favoured religious law book.
My opinion is simple, keep religion away from matters of law, whether that court is legally binding or not.[/QUOTE]
you shouldnt even listen to me really im just some dude telling you over the internet that you shouldn't care about women
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40621341]In what video does he make himself out to be Xenophobic or racist ?
Last I checked Islam was a religion, not a race.
And just because he points out the blatant hypocrisy, sexism, homophobia, and distaste for freedoms; their way of trying to make everybody apologetic about muslims: you see fit to call him Xenophobic ?
Also, your post sounds like some of the hate mail Richard Dawkins gets:[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuowNcuGsc[/url][/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;vjS0Novt3X4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4[/video]
starting from the first fucking sentence. go away now.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40620811]So its not fair to say that in some cases in the UK, muslim women are not given the freedom to settle a domestic case in a proper UK legal court over a Sharia one? LOL. You think in 'some' cases they are offered an option?[/QUOTE]
If they aren't being given an option they can always go through the UK legal system themselves. Fear of doing so, however, exists but is an issue related to abuse as a whole and not Islam alone
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40621670][video=youtube;vjS0Novt3X4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4[/video]
starting from the first fucking sentence. go away now.[/QUOTE]
This piece of shit is literally making me physically ill with the garbage he is spewing.
"9/11 could not have happened if not for Islam"
Oh my God dude do us all a favour and shut the fuck up
[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]
He honestly believes Islam is a bigger threat to the free world than Nazi's? Jesus fucking Christ
[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]
Oh now he's railing against diversity. Is this guy a UKIP parliament candidate?
The Ground Zero mosque is the same as the Corboda mosque and symbolizes Islamic conquest of America? I can't believe you people take this man seriously
I'd like to remind people that the UAE's sharia law is actually one of the [i]most[/i] modernized forms of law in the middle east.
Sure, to our Western ideals and beliefs, it seems wrong, but so does human sacrifice and cannibalism. We don't have people telling tribes in various nations they are horrible people, and we don't demonize ancient cultures that practice stuff like that. Why is it so hard for people not to demonize other cultures' ways of being?
Islam. Please join the rest of us in the 21st century. Our species has evolved, but your mentality hasn't
[QUOTE=Amokov;40621783]I'd like to remind people that the UAE's sharia law is actually one of the [I]most[/I] modernized forms of law in the middle east.
Sure, to our Western ideals and beliefs, it seems wrong, but so does human sacrifice and cannibalism. We don't have people telling tribes in various nations they are horrible people, and we don't demonize ancient cultures that practice stuff like that. Why is it so hard for people not to demonize other cultures' ways of being?[/QUOTE]
When you imprison a rape victim for having sex outside marriage the "but it's our culture!!" excuse flies out the fucking window. If you can't see what is objectively wrong with that then you're just a terrible human being.
[QUOTE=Amokov;40621783]I'd like to remind people that the UAE's sharia law is actually one of the [i]most[/i] modernized forms of law in the middle east.
Sure, to our Western ideals and beliefs, it seems wrong, but so does human sacrifice and cannibalism. We don't have people telling tribes in various nations they are horrible people, and we don't demonize ancient cultures that practice stuff like that. Why is it so hard for people not to demonize other cultures' ways of being?[/QUOTE]
America as a whole has a really bad problem with Islamaphobia which, combined with Islam being a lot more popular than religions and cults that focus on human sacrifice and cannibalism, means there's a lot of ignorance about. that said, one doesn't necessarily have to be ignorant of Sharia law to find it brutal and oppressive, because that's pretty much exactly what it is - same thing applies to a lot of cultures that differ from our Western way of thinking. there comes a point where being different does not preclude something from being appalling, and that point is often crossed just as much as it isn't.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;40617473]haha yeah, served her right!!![/QUOTE]
Did I say that? I can't see it anywhere in my post? Did you put it there?
queue the fucking idiots that are going to claim this isn't an accurate representation of islam.
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