[QUOTE=glitchvid;40620878]In the UK maybe, but I remember a case in Europe (Or a nordic country) that the judge ruled (it was a rape IIRC) under Sharia law because both involved where Muslims (and both were promoting community cohesion
Also:
[video=youtube;RfJ6FpabknY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJ6FpabknY[/video][/QUOTE]
Pat "Vote UKIP" Condell.
Pat "Fascists Are Right About Muslims" Condell.
Pat "The EDL and BNP Are My Biggest Fans" Condell
Pat "Geert Wilders is Awesome" Condell
I can come up with more but it's a toss up between him and Bill "Vaccines Cause Autism" Maher.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40622086]queue the fucking idiots that are going to claim this isn't an accurate representation of islam.[/QUOTE]
But it isn't an accurate representation of Islam.
It's an accurate representation of the United Arab Emirates
[QUOTE]
Oh now he's railing against diversity. Is this guy a UKIP parliament candidate?
The Ground Zero mosque is the same as the Corboda mosque and symbolizes Islamic conquest of America? I can't believe you people take this man seriously[/QUOTE]
He has plugged UKIP in his videos a whole bunch, and is a firm supporter of theirs. He is living proof that being an atheist doesn't make you an intellectual.
amusingly(not really) the US is ok with selling F-16s to the UAE :suicide: , but iran is the boogeyman right?
[url]http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-defense-perspective/2013-04-26/uae-orders-more-f-16e/f-fighters[/url]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40622223]But it isn't an accurate representation of Islam.
It's an accurate representation of the United Arab Emirates[/QUOTE]
it happens in every other islamic country. this is how the quran instructs muslims to treat women. even the women themselves are mostly in favor of this.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40622492]it happens in every other islamic country. this is how the quran instructs muslims to treat women. even the women themselves are mostly in favor of this.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Islam_by_country.png]Every one of these places?[/url]
[QUOTE=slayer64;40620344]Your bigotry disgusts me. this isn't a question of religion, it's a question of fucked up social conditions. Get over yourself.[/QUOTE]Actually it is a question of religion, the reason this happened was due to the [I]religious [/I]subjugation of women in that country.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40622492]it happens in every other islamic country. this is how the quran instructs muslims to treat women. even the women themselves are mostly in favor of this.[/QUOTE]
Obligatory reminder that Bruhmis sees all religious people as mentally inferior.
[QUOTE=Paper Monkey;40622869]Obligatory reminder that Bruhmis sees all religious people as mentally inferior.[/QUOTE]
obligatory reminder that all organized religions have been proven to be rooted in false information for a long time.
[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40622539][url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Islam_by_country.png]Every one of these places?[/url][/QUOTE]
every country where islam is the national religion and incorporated into law and legislature.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40622086]queue the fucking idiots that are going to claim this isn't an accurate representation of islam.[/QUOTE]
Man alive I can't believe some of the people this forum brings in
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;40623448]Man alive I can't believe some of the people this forum brings in[/QUOTE]
I'm equally surprised that there's a facepunch user who says ''man alive''.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;40622358]amusingly(not really) the US is ok with selling F-16s to the UAE :suicide: , but iran is the boogeyman right?
[url]http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-defense-perspective/2013-04-26/uae-orders-more-f-16e/f-fighters[/url][/QUOTE]
But they are an American backed regime, Iran doesn't like America so they are more evil!
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40621949]When you imprison a rape victim for having sex outside marriage the "but it's our culture!!" excuse flies out the fucking window. If you can't see what is objectively wrong with that then you're just a terrible human being.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I do. But it's a part of Western culture that women are actually deserving of the same rights as men, and it took us a few hundred(or more) years to get there.
Basically, I'm saying rather than "OMG SHARIA LAW IS TERRIBLE" maybe a "Let's see about modernizing Sharia law" would be in order.
[quote]Imam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
In our view the man who rapes a woman, whether she is a virgin or not.....The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist and [B]there is no punishment for the woman who has been raped, whatever the case[/B][/quote]
The [B]misconception [/B]in the west is that, in Islam, the rape victim gets the punishment no matter what.
Only when a rape [B]cannot be proved[/B], then the punishments of sex-outside-marriage is applied.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40616970]So you can't prosecute for rape unless if four other men were watching the rape happen?
That's some of the most stupid bullshit that I have ever heard.
Yay fundamentalism![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=redBadger;40616913]how the fuck is having four adult male muslim witness a fair way to charge someone for murder? let alone having the rapist confess?[/QUOTE]
Also, to say that [B]only[/B] eye-witness accounts[ can be used to confirm a rape case in Sharia is wrong. Its one of the basis, but [B]not [/B]the only.
Secondly, its not like the men got away un-punished. They served in prison and were deported. As for the victim, she was probably tested (if she was drugged) and there was no way to substantiate her claim and so she was given the sex-outside-of-marriage punishment.
It could have been a group session where the woman later blackmailed the men to charge them with rape and ended up getting herself in trouble.
---
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;40616916]Something is fucked. They put on a facade like they're a Western country, but they keep all the shitty, horrible sharia law.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=>VLN<;40617105]I find it funny when Muslims come to the US and Canada to escape persecution, yet they bring Sharia law and their backwards values with them and think everything will be OK.[/QUOTE]
I think when Muslims call for Sharia courts in the west (the legit muslim organizations, not the radical ones), its only for matters (like inheritance, marriage etc) like jewish courts. And if all parties want to exercise the Sharia option (male and female), I dont see whats the problem.
How come jews are given that option and muslims arent? Sharia will bring stoning? Im pretty sure the bible also has that punishment prescribed, it doesn't mean the jews are practicing that in western countries because of those courts.
Everytime someone mentions to implement a sharia court to deal with such issues (inheritance) some nutjob like pamela geller & co makes the news calling obama a secret muslim or some other non-sense to scare the public before the matter is even discussed. sad state of affairs.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40623231]
every country where islam is the national religion and incorporated into law and legislature.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Use_of_Sharia_by_country.svg]So all of the yellow, orange, and blue ones?[/url]
[QUOTE=C47;40624268]The [B]misconception [/B]in the west is that, in Islam, the rape victim gets the punishment no matter what.
Only when a rape [B]cannot be proved[/B], then the punishments of sex-outside-marriage is applied.
Also, to say that [B]only[/B] eye-witness accounts[ can be used to confirm a rape case in Sharia is wrong. Its one of the basis, but [B]not [/B]the only.
Secondly, its not like the men got away un-punished. They served in prison and were deported. As for the victim, she was probably tested (if she was drugged) and there was no way to substantiate her claim and so she was given the sex-outside-of-marriage punishment.
It could have been a group session where the woman later blackmailed the men to charge them with rape and ended up getting herself in trouble.
---
I think when Muslims call for Sharia courts in the west (the legit muslim organizations, not the radical ones), its only for matters (like inheritance, marriage etc) like jewish courts. And if all parties want to exercise the Sharia option (male and female), I dont see whats the problem.
How come jews are given that option and muslims arent? Sharia will bring stoning? Im pretty sure the bible also has that punishment prescribed, it doesn't mean the jews are practicing that in western countries because of those courts.
Everytime someone mentions to implement a sharia court to deal with such issues (inheritance) some nutjob like pamela geller & co makes the news calling obama a secret muslim or some other non-sense to scare the public before the matter is even discussed. sad state of affairs.[/QUOTE]Are you seriously trying to defend Sharia law?
And the difference between the Bible prescribing stoning and the Quaran prescribing stoning is that at least people who practice the Bible DON'T ACTUALLY GO THROUGH WITH IT.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40621032]So women being forced into religious Sharia law courts by their families or communities isn't an attack on womens rights? I also never said anything about the church but simply said matters of law should not have religion involved.
Sharia courts might not have legal status in the UK but that doesn't change a thing for women who are trapped in these situations where the state law plays second place to their own religious courts. On this basis I called for these 'courts' to be shut down.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7233040.stm"]UK | Religious courts in the UK[/URL]
Jewish courts are second to the state courts, not the other way round.
Similarly, if a woman does not want to be judged by a sharia court, no matter how much the family "pressures" it would be illegal, because these courts are only second/alternative/inferior to the official courts of the country (UK).
At the end of the day, the official courts have more authority.
[editline]13th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killer900;40624453]Are you seriously trying to defend Sharia law?
And the difference between the Bible prescribing stoning and the Quaran prescribing stoning is that at least people who practice the Bible DON'T ACTUALLY GO THROUGH WITH IT.[/QUOTE]
Well the thread title states the raped victim got the punishment for being raped. It also implies that the raped victim in Islam is punished no matter what.
Which is not the case. Just trying to clarify.
Also the stoning part is meant to explain how much reach/extent these religious courts have in secular countries. And the bias towards muslims not allowed to have their own courts, when other religious communities do (even though both have the stoning punishment).
[QUOTE=C47;40624497]
Also the stoning part is meant to explain how much reach/extent these religious courts have in secular countries. And the bias towards muslims not allowed to have their own courts, when other religious communities do (even though both have the stoning punishment).[/QUOTE]
Not just religious groups. Members of the First Nations, for example, are also permitted to have their own courts and engage in informal arbitration.
Shariah in the UK and US has always been a red herring: it's an informal method of arbitration that two consenting parties can engage in. It's basically Judge Judy, Islam isn't going to take over our legal system.
[quote]Gali told Yahoo 7 News she went to the hotel bar to use her laptop and have a drink since there was nowhere else to go. She said a fellow employee at the hotel refilled her glass with ice from an ice bucket, using a pair of tongs, but the next thing she remembers is waking up at 4:30 p.m. the next day, [B]with four broken ribs and bruises all over her body.[/B]
...
After reporting the rape to police, Gali was told to sign a statement in Arabic, which she later learned was a confession that she had drank alcohol and had sex outside marriage, she told Yahoo 7 News. Gali was sentenced to a year in prison, but was pardoned in 2009 after serving eight months, The Australian reported. [/quote]
If she had bruises and broken ribs like she claims, she should [B]never [/B]have been punished, according to Sharia law.
[quote] Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
She (the victim) is not to be punished if it is proven that he forced her and overpowered her.[/quote]
Something's not right, either the criminal justice system in the UAE (lack of proper investigation, appliance of sharia laws) or the woman's story.
If UAE gives a crap about their reputation, they should speak out in defense of this situation considering how every major media is picking up this story.
[editline]13th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killer900;40624453]And the difference between the Bible prescribing stoning and the Quaran prescribing stoning is that at least people who practice the Bible DON'T ACTUALLY GO THROUGH WITH IT.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah I forgot, Christians pretty much ignore the rulings in the Bible to their convenience . I meant the old testament/Torah and jews. Ofcourse, there isnt any real [B]orthodox [/B]jewish state that applies that their law, so there arent any.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40624344][url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Use_of_Sharia_by_country.svg]So all of the yellow, orange, and blue ones?[/url][/QUOTE]
I lack the geographical knowledge to answer that, unfortunately. any country with a muslim population of over 80% or any country with laws based on islam. egypt, afghanistan, iraq, pakistan, saudi arabia etc.
UAE shit of the year every year
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40624646]I lack the geographical knowledge to answer that, unfortunately. any country with a muslim population of over 80% or any country with laws based on islam. egypt, afghanistan, iraq, pakistan, saudi arabia etc.[/QUOTE]
I am pretty sure Yellow means lower level integration, for things like divorces and stuff. Purple means full implementation within the law and turquoise must mean secular but majority muslim population because I know Kazakhstan is secular.
[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]
Central Asian geography!
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40624646]I lack the geographical knowledge to answer that, unfortunately. any country with a muslim population of over 80% or any country with laws based on islam. egypt, afghanistan, iraq, pakistan, saudi arabia etc.[/QUOTE]
...And Indonesia, Azerbaijan, Kosovo, Tajikistan, Malaysia, and all the so many other Muslim majority countries we don't have talking heads ranting about?
[QUOTE=laserguided;40624685]I am pretty sure Yellow means lower level integration, for things like divorces and stuff. Purple means full implementation within the law and turquoise must mean secular but majority muslim population because I know Kazakhstan is secular.
[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]
Central Asian geography![/QUOTE]
well if that were the case then yeah basically those countries. but there would likely be a couple inconsistencies.
[QUOTE=Amokov;40621783]We don't have people telling tribes in various nations they are horrible people, and we don't demonize ancient cultures that practice stuff like that.[/QUOTE]
We do, actually. We totally do.
[QUOTE=Amokov;40624196]Oh, I do. But it's a part of Western culture that women are actually deserving of the same rights as men, and it took us a few hundred(or more) years to get there.
Basically, I'm saying rather than "OMG SHARIA LAW IS TERRIBLE" maybe a "Let's see about modernizing Sharia law" would be in order.[/QUOTE]
"Let's see about modernizing Sharia law" is the suggestion. "OMG SHARIA LAW IS TERRIBLE" is the reasoning.
[QUOTE=C47;40624268]Also, to say that [B]only[/B] eye-witness accounts can be used to confirm a rape case in Sharia is wrong. Its one of the basis, but [B]not [/B]the only.[/QUOTE]
How else does it work? Is it like rape cases in other countries?
[QUOTE=C47;40624622]Something's not right, either the criminal justice system in the UAE (lack of proper investigation, appliance of sharia laws) or the woman's story.[/QUOTE]
I'd go with the criminal justice system being inadequate here. Sure, it's simple to make up a story, but rape cases are already notoriously hard to prove in most (if not all) countries, and this case happened in a country with a "sex outside of marriage" law, most likely making it even harder to prove.
Also, I wouldn't say this is because of Islam, but rather because of a culture of fundamentalism in the Middle East. As has been said, Abrahamic religions all have the same sexist shit in them. Hell, there was a story lately where ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel threw rocks at women for praying a certain way, and these people also (supposedly) wear glasses that mess up their vision just so they can't see women. There was also a story some while back about ultra-Orthodox Jews bullying an 8 year old girl and calling her a whore because she didn't follow their own strict dress code. A large part of this fundamentalism is because of how the rest of the world has treated the Middle East in the past. Kind of like how Africa is really messed up because of imperialism.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40624793]How else does it work? Is it like rape cases in other countries?[/QUOTE]
I'd suppose there would be proper investigation, forensics and stuff.
[QUOTE=Last or First;40624793]I'd go with the criminal justice system being inadequate here. Sure, it's simple to make up a story, but rape cases are already notoriously hard to prove in most (if not all) countries, and this case happened in a country with a "sex outside of marriage" law, most likely making it even harder to prove.[/QUOTE]
Considering her ribs fractured, its pretty obvious then that she was the victim (who'd go as far as to break their ribs to blackmail). There isnt sophistication required here. For bruises maybe, there can be further investigation if it was self-inflicted or not and may require some competence. The idea was that in Islam, its already there that, there is no punishment for the victim if the rape is proved (how to prove is not covered except in the known methods back then, it changes over time ofcourse).
[QUOTE=C47;40624268]
Only when a rape [B]cannot be proved[/B], then the punishments of sex-outside-marriage is applied.
[/QUOTE]
Something seems fallacious about that. Hmm, let me try
[I]"Only when being phsyically assaulted [B]cannot be proved[/B], then the punishments of participating in a fight is applied."[/I]
Oh geez, that doesn't sound correct either :downs:
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;40624852]Something seems fallacious about that. Hmm, let me try
[I]"Only when being phsyically assaulted [B]cannot be proved[/B], then the punishments of participating in a fight is applied."[/I]
Oh geez, that doesn't sound correct either :downs:[/QUOTE]
You can word it like that because sex outside of marriage is not illegal in some places (ie consent and all that). You cant just mix western concepts and islamic concepts and then claim, oh look this is fallacious....
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40624646]I lack the geographical knowledge to answer that, unfortunately. any country with a muslim population of over 80% or any country with laws based on islam. egypt, afghanistan, iraq, pakistan, saudi arabia etc.[/QUOTE]
United Arab Emirates, the country this thread is about, has a Muslim population under 80%. Meanwhile you have countries where this stuff happens far less often or basically not at all like Morocco (Muslim population of 99.9%), Indonesia (89%), Bahrain (81%), and Albania (82%)
You're not even trying anymore
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