[QUOTE=Zeke129;40625028]United Arab Emirates, the country this thread is about, has a Muslim population under 80%. Meanwhile you have countries where this stuff happens far less often or basically not at all like Morocco (Muslim population of 99.9%), Indonesia (89%), Bahrain (81%), and Albania (82%)
You're not even trying anymore[/QUOTE]
it's very easy to claim that this stuff doesn't happen in those countries without backing it up with anything. 85% was also meant as more of a general number. I consider above 60% to be an extreme majority.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40625147]it's very easy to claim that this stuff doesn't happen in those countries without backing it up with anything. 85% was also meant as more of a general number. [b]I consider above 60% to be an extreme majority.[/b][/QUOTE]
yeah you wouldn't want a large concentration of muslims in one place or anything that'd be awful
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40625154]yeah you wouldn't want a large concentration of muslims in one place or anything that'd be awful[/QUOTE]
if I lived in a place where there was a large concentration of muslims I would be dead. the distinction between islam and other religions is that most muslims really and truly believe in their religion so when the quran clearly instructs muslims to kill non believers over 100 times and I'm openly opposed to islam, does it really come as a surprise that I have nothing but disdain for these people? their women are treated like property and everyone who has anything even remotely unsavory to say about them receives numerous death threats. there's a tendency among people to disregard any criticism of islam as being run of the mill xenophobia and it stops people from seeing islam for what it really is.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40625278]if I lived in a place where there was a large concentration of muslims I would be dead. the distinction between islam and other religions is that most muslims really and truly believe in their religion so when the quran clearly instructs muslims to kill non believers over 100 times and I'm openly opposed to islam, does it really come as a surprise that I have nothing but disdain for these people? their women are treated like property and everyone who has anything even remotely unsavory to say about them receives numerous death threats. there's a tendency among people to disregard any criticism of islam as being run of the mill xenophobia and it stops people from seeing islam for what it really is.[/QUOTE]
I am an atheist and I live amongst Muslims in the United States. Not even so much as an angry look.
Dude? [I]You seriously have some problems here[/I]. I'm pretty sure that you're not in any way a reasonable critic of a religion, you're the kind of person who sees two people talking to each other in Arabic while wondering "What are they plotting?" :tinfoil:
Lets hope they run out of oil soon, because nobody is going to holiday in a country where this sort crap goes on, well no westerners anyway. Oh and in Australia this story was a show called "Sunday Night" .
Isn't UAE law supposed to be based on the Quran, more or less
Because this comes to mind
[quote]"Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses..." Quran 2:282, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 47[/quote]
Equally wrong, but still.
[editline]13th May 2013[/editline]
(Also the implication that women is worth half of a man in the Quran is actually really, really depressing)
[QUOTE=Paper Monkey;40625717]I am an atheist and I live amongst Muslims in the United States. Not even so much as an angry look.
Dude? [I]You seriously have some problems here[/I]. I'm pretty sure that you're not in any way a reasonable critic of a religion, you're the kind of person who sees two people talking to each other in Arabic while wondering "What are they plotting?" :tinfoil:[/QUOTE]
it's pretty amusing how the specific post you're responding to makes it clear that there is no xenophobia in involved in my opinion of islam. I do not have a problem with arabic people. and although I generally don't respect religious people, that has nothing to do with my criticism of islam. it's the same when christians try to defend their religion by calling people like westboro baptist church members ''extremist''. there's nothing extremist about them. everything they do is based on their religion. and likewise, muslims will never miss a chance to call groups like the taliban extremist when in reality they're just doing what the religion itself demands of them. those muslims that are so friendly to you are not following their religion's teachings. just because they only half believe in it that doesn't make it any less deplorable.
Welcome to Sharia Law, where everything wrong is right and where you're never correct.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40625278]if I lived in a place where there was a large concentration of muslims I would be dead. the distinction between islam and other religions is that most muslims really and truly believe in their religion so when the quran clearly instructs muslims to kill non believers over 100 times and I'm openly opposed to islam, does it really come as a surprise that I have nothing but disdain for these people? their women are treated like property and everyone who has anything even remotely unsavory to say about them receives numerous death threats. there's a tendency among people to disregard any criticism of islam as being run of the mill xenophobia and it stops people from seeing islam for what it really is.[/QUOTE]
i think you're having some very serious difficulty distinguishing between real Muslims and the Muslims you hear about on the (heavily biased) news, and this leads you to be totally Islamophobic. if all Muslims in the world were psychopaths who didn't care for the law nor abide by any kind of ethics, you would be super fucking dead by now because you probably live near one or two.
[editline]13th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40625868]it's pretty amusing how the specific post you're responding to makes it clear that there is no xenophobia in involved in my opinion of islam. I do not have a problem with arabic people. and although I generally don't respect religious people, that has nothing to do with my criticism of islam. it's the same when christians try to defend their religion by calling people like westboro baptist church members ''extremist''. there's nothing extremist about them. everything they do is based on their religion. and likewise, muslims will never miss a chance to call groups like the taliban extremist when in reality they're just doing what the religion itself demands of them. those muslims that are so friendly to you are not following their religion's teachings. just because they only half believe in it that doesn't make it any less deplorable.[/QUOTE]
so you're not afraid of Muslim countries you're just afraid of all countries that are worth calling Muslim
ok
and how is this not xenophobic
[QUOTE=Cone;40626272]i think you're having some very serious difficulty distinguishing between real Muslims and the Muslims you hear about on the (heavily biased) news, and this leads you to be totally Islamophobic. if all Muslims in the world were psychopaths who didn't care for the law nor abide by any kind of ethics, you would be super fucking dead by now because you probably live near one or two.
[editline]13th May 2013[/editline]
so you're not afraid of Muslim countries you're just afraid of all countries that are worth calling Muslim
ok
and how is this not xenophobic[/QUOTE]
do you understand what xenophobic means? if it was xenophobia I would dislike them simply because they're foreign to me and I don't understand them. the first point you made is basically parallel to the way I see it. you choose to call moderate, non violent people of the muslim faith ''real muslims''. I don't understand this logic. why are these the real muslims when the ones that get called extremists are simply following the teachings of islam? if someone thinks it's wrong to kill non-muslims, they do not believe in the quran. it's not much different with other religions. there's millions of christians who just ignore 80% of the bible and call themselves ''real christians''. the difference is that islam has larger, stricter and more focused communities of people who take their religion very seriously. that is what makes islam more dangerous than other religions. not their perceived hatred for the west or ''jealousy of freedom'' or any other bullshit propaganda that the U.S has been mass producing since 9/11.
[QUOTE=thisispain;40620960]you didnt defend anything you backpedaled and posted a link
Womens rights in the UK has very clearly not been compromised and neither has the separation of church and state (however much of that there is in a nation with a state religion)
stop being so alarmist and go back to drawing dismembered cocks or w/e
[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9975937/Inside-Britains-Sharia-courts.html"]u[/URL][URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22044724"]m[/URL] yeah about the bit where the imam says ""nonono don't go to the police about your husband brutally beating you!"" ""but he is really bad!"" ""still! you cannot go to the police!""
[QUOTE=redBadger;40617470]I watched the videos. This sickens me. A pretty girl with so much going for her is downgraded and is now suffering from PTSD. The sick fucks who own the hotel even lied about giving her support, of which none was actually given.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, bring up that she is pretty......who cares what she looks like
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40625278]if I lived in a place where there was a large concentration of muslims I would be dead.[/QUOTE]
you need to get the hell out of your little bubble
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40625278]if I lived in a place where there was a large concentration of muslims I would be dead.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever actually met a Muslim?
[QUOTE=Butthurter;40622659]am i not meant to read it in the same context as "why would you ever go to india its such a shithole, the fact you think youre going to come out safe is stupid enough as is"[/QUOTE]
You were meant to read it like
" Why would you eat a spicy curry, you know full well it's going to burn your mouth... I don't like eating curry as it is "
or something along those lines anyway.
Not saying that the cops flogging her is a good thing, just trying to say that going to the police when you know you're gonna get flogged is p.silly
Sharia Law confirmed for worst law-
In Saudi Arabia a person converting to another religion other than Islam faces the death penalty.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Saudi_Arabia#Christian_community_today[/url]
This is revolting.
This is real Islam, anyone who disagrees is probably following / defending some lightweight version of it.
[QUOTE=zugu;40628949]This is real Islam, anyone who disagrees is probably following / defending some lightweight version of it.[/QUOTE]
Wahabbi Islam, an extremist interpretation of Islam created in 1792 and widely promoted by Saudi Arabia and the UAE for economic reasons and by association supported by the United States, is the real Islam.
Not, say, the many other versions of Islam practiced in many different countries. Just that one. Okay then.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40625868]although I generally don't respect religious people[/QUOTE]
Well that sure makes you look as though you're setting better example over them, gg :downs:
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40626865]you choose to call moderate, non violent people of the muslim faith ''real muslims''. I don't understand this logic. why are these the real muslims when the ones that get called extremists are simply following the teachings of islam? if someone thinks it's wrong to kill non-muslims, they do not believe in the quran.[/QUOTE]
You ironically sound like a hardcore salafist cleric
[QUOTE=zugu;40628949]This is real Islam, anyone who disagrees is probably following / defending some lightweight version of it.[/QUOTE]
And the Archbishop of Canterbury isn't a Christian because his beliefs are less hardcore than the pope, right
[QUOTE=CatFodder;40627937]Have you ever actually met a Muslim?[/QUOTE]
in what twisted universe would this make any difference? you can put me in a bouncy castle full of 500 friendly muslims and that wouldn't change the fact that their religion commands them to kill me. if someone wants to be an idiot and claim to be part of a religion then disregard everything about it, they're free to do so but don't expect logical people to accept these anomalies as representatives of the religion.
I was in a good mood until I read this.Thanks sharia..
[QUOTE=Charybdis;40629422]Well that sure makes you look as though you're setting better example over them, gg :downs:
You ironically sound like a hardcore salafist cleric[/QUOTE]
I don't see you or anyone else debating what I'm saying. no one denies that the quran says these things. and yet I'm ''in a bubble'', ''xenophobic'' and apparently a ''hardcore salafist cleric'' for pointing out the obvious. I don't understand the difficulty people have with comprehending this. it's like you're so worried a liberal is going to mistake you for a conservative that you refuse to acknowledge any criticism of religion, even something as simple as ''people who's beliefs are the opposite of the quran do not believe in the quran''.
[QUOTE=jewdozer;40628340]In Saudi Arabia a person converting to another religion other than Islam faces the death penalty.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Saudi_Arabia#Christian_community_today[/url]
This is revolting.[/QUOTE]
so revolting infact, you're not going to do anything about it, just sit and whine about it.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;40629428]in what twisted universe would this make any difference? you can put me in a bouncy castle full of 500 friendly muslims and that wouldn't change the fact that their religion commands them to kill me. if someone wants to be an idiot and claim to be part of a religion then disregard everything about it, they're free to do so but don't expect logical people to accept these anomalies as representatives of the religion.[/QUOTE]
So by your logic, all Jews except Ultra-orthodox are 'idiots'? All Christians except fundamentalists? The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of religious people of all faiths do not rigidly follow every single tenant of their religion. There are too many contradictions for one thing. This allows them to have the guidance and happiness they experience through their religion, whilst still being able to function as a member of a modern society. I will never understand this attitude that anyone who is religious without being a fundamentalist is somehow stupid and 'doing it wrong'.
[QUOTE=tr00per7;40630323]so revolting infact, you're not going to do anything about it, just sit and whine about it.[/QUOTE]
I have my own ways of personal protest. Click the weblink under my avatar, I'll make you go blind.
[QUOTE=CatFodder;40632692]So by your logic, all Jews except Ultra-orthodox are 'idiots'? All Christians except fundamentalists? The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of religious people of all faiths do not rigidly follow every single tenant of their religion. There are too many contradictions for one thing. This allows them to have the guidance and happiness they experience through their religion, whilst still being able to function as a member of a modern society. I will never understand this attitude that anyone who is religious without being a fundamentalist is somehow stupid and 'doing it wrong'.[/QUOTE]
well, there's a few problems with what you said. to begin with, I never said religious people who take their religion seriously aren't dumb, they're just significantly less dumb. this, however, does not mean I hold any favor for these people. they're the problem. if the muslim community was comprised of mostly blind followers who don't really care about their religion, then islam would not be a threat to anyone. I can see in your words that you know these religions are rooted in false information, and you know they're fake. what I can't understand is how you think weak minded people having ''guidance'' somehow justifies the atrocities religion is responsible for.
[QUOTE=CatFodder;40632692]So by your logic, all Jews except Ultra-orthodox are 'idiots'? All Christians except fundamentalists? The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of religious people of all faiths do not rigidly follow every single tenant of their religion. There are too many contradictions for one thing. This allows them to have the guidance and happiness they experience through their religion, whilst still being able to function as a member of a modern society. I will never understand this attitude that anyone who is religious without being a fundamentalist is somehow stupid and 'doing it wrong'.[/QUOTE]
This is my problem with modern religion - there's too many contradictions and no-one, not even the most rigorous fundamentalist actually understands it, or takes any interest in finding out it's origins or experiencing 'god' rather than just believing myths about him.
For starters, no Christian today has read the Greek, Coptic or Hebrew versions of the bible, because they're simply not interested - they don't even know about them, or simply see them as 'obsolete' in comparison to the 'real bible' of Western Christianity (King James) yet the differences are laughable in every conceivable sense.
In almost every way, the entire story has been subjected to a game of 'Chinese Whispers' with the most important messages being stripped out and replaced with a version that forces people into a closed-minded belief in an all-powerful deity that the church of the time wished to impose on people for their own monetary gain - and an arrogance regarding the faith to match - completely disregarding anything that challenged it's foundations - and allowing you to adopt a 'half-faith' where you simply believe in God, give money to the church and be good - as a route to Heaven.
Even ignoring these translations, how many 'Christians' do you know who have even read the entire King James Bible anyway? There's fucking few. How is that even a reasonable basis for faith in anything of any kind.
So now you have these people wandering around, arguing about their religion, which they themselves know absolutely nothing about the history or origins of, nor have they even considered any of the messages within for themselves - instead simply believing the word of others.
If it happens enough, you get people who can talk a compelling line emerging from the woodwork, and next thing you know you've got a terrorist cell, cult or nazi party forming.
This doesn't just apply to religion, it applies to a great many things. Don't just believe something because you see it on the news and it sounds cool - if you're actually interested in it and not just looking for another opinion to add to your 'list of opinions I use to make me sound intelligible' - why not actively pursue a more in-depth knowledge on the subject, so you can actually provide something original in a discussion, not merely regurgitating other people's originality.
[QUOTE=Paper Monkey;40629176]Wahabbi Islam, an extremist interpretation of Islam created in 1792 and widely promoted by Saudi Arabia and the UAE for economic reasons and by association supported by the United States, is the real Islam.
Not, say, the many other versions of Islam practiced in many different countries. Just that one. Okay then.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't arguing real as in authentic. Of course they're all claiming their faction is the "real" one :)
What I'm saying is this: a Muslim either follows the "good book", or is cherrypicking. Since the Quran warns about cherrypicking and twisting the words of the Muslim prophet, only one logical path remains: to follow each and every teaching of the Quran. Of course, some "instructions" are too vague not to generate a myriad of interpretations, but some of them are quite direct: kill the infidels, always put women in the 2nd place in society, practice polygamy and so on.
If you're a Muslim and allow or encourage non-believers to blaspheme, for example (maybe you're protecting their freedom of speech), you're sinning. This is what the book says.
"Hardcore", "fundamentalist" Muslims are nothing more than Muslims who follow the rules exactly as they were written in the Quran. So-called moderate Muslims are not real Muslims, according to the rules laid in the Quran. Muslims who pray 5 times a day but let their women walk without the traditional garment are not real Muslims, because they have read the rule prohibiting this behavior and chose to ignore it, while knowing the same holy book lists punishments for those who disobey these very same teachings.
TL;DR: moderate Muslims are not real Muslims, asking "fundamentalist" Muslims to change their ways is like asking them to stop being Muslims. Moderate Islamic societies will always foster fundamentalists, teenagers revolting against the secular ways of their parents. Having secular Islamic societies everywhere is a moot goal. It's an utopia. There's only one conclusion: Islam is bad, and it should be eradicated, because it's adverse to change, and when it "changes" it always reverts to fundamentalism.
[QUOTE=zugu;40640224]I wasn't arguing real as in authentic. Of course they're all claiming their faction is the "real" one :)
What I'm saying is this: a Muslim either follows the "good book", or is cherrypicking. Since the Quran warns about cherrypicking and twisting the words of the Muslim prophet, only one logical path remains: to follow each teaching of the Quran. Of course, some "instructions" are too vague not to generate a myriad of interpretations, but some of them are quite direct: kill the infidels, always put women in the 2nd place in society, practice polygamy and so on.
If you're a Muslim and allow or encourage non-believers to blaspheme, for example (maybe you're protecting their freedom of speech), you're sinning. This is what the book says.
"Hardcore", "fundamentalist" Muslims are nothing more than Muslims who follow the rules exactly as they were written in the Quran. So-called moderate Muslims are not real Muslims, according to the rules laid in the Quran. Muslims who pray 5 times a day but let their women walk without the traditional garment are not real Muslims, because they have read the rule prohibiting this behavior and chose to ignore it, while knowing the same holy book lists punishments for those who disobey these very same teachings.
TL;DR: moderate Muslims are not real Muslims, asking "fundamentalist" Muslims to change their ways is like asking them to stop being Muslims. Moderate Islamic societies will always foster fundamentalists, teenagers revolting against the secular ways of their parents. Having secular Islamic societies everywhere is a moot goal. It's an utopia. There's only one conclusion: Islam is bad, and it should be eradicated, because it's adverse to change, and when it changes it always reverts to fundamentalism.[/QUOTE]
This.
As humans we're becoming increasingly technologically sophisticated, there is simply no place for shitty beliefs anymore - they simply impede progress and contribute to hostility.
Christianity was the majority belief held in the time of Galileo Galilei - who discovered, by looking through a telescope, that the world was round and orbited the sun.
What did the believers do? Told him to shut the fuck up and stop going against their beliefs - they told him that if he didn't shut the fuck up, they'd hurt him and destroy his work.
He was condemned by the Catholic Church for 'vehement suspicion of heresy'.
So, he did shut up (to an extent) and their lies persevered for another 100 years or so, before the truth that Galileo had discovered became accepted.
How anyone even respects the church after the thousands of years of similar incidences to the one above (involving, say, witches) I have no fucking idea.
I won't lie, I thought the UAE was a really beautiful country with good standards of living, [I]including[/I] laws, but now I see that I was horribly mistaken. That's a complete load of bullshit.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.