• Most Britons believe video games are not art - even regular gamers and young people
    108 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44289197]until games get something that has irrevocably good writing, this will likely continue. gaming most glaring weakness is writing, it needs at least one guy/gal on the level of Isaac Asimov or something like that, who is interested in using games as a way to tell stories.[/QUOTE] I can understand why that affects how games are perceived, but games don't need "writing" to tell a good story. Gaming's strength as a medium is that the mechanics can be used to relate an experience directly to the player, without the use of abstractions like verbal communication. That's not to say writing has no place in gaming, but games shouldn't be judged based on the critical theory that developed through other mediums.
Honestly, for me, to call something art is to acknowledge that it has no practical purpose, that its sole reason to exist in the world is to look pretty. Video games do so much more than that.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44289379]Journey is a far better example of a game that can be considered art.[/QUOTE] It's a far better example of a game in general, which is a more admirable goal
[QUOTE=TestECull;44289538]Honestly, for me, to call something art is to acknowledge that it has no practical purpose, that its sole reason to exist in the world is to look pretty. Video games do so much more than that.[/QUOTE] I still fail to understand your logic behind this argument. I still think 'art' is a meaningless term, but insisting that none of this 'art' has a practical purpose is senseless.
If fucking poopholes of people get considered as art, then games can too.
Any creative work with the primary purpose of generating an emotional reaction is "art".
[QUOTE=Vasili;44289342]Well, I know I'm supposed (having done art as a grade and into college) should recognize something that is moving, touching and thought provoking as artistic but when it comes to video games it never hits me. I guess its because its interactive; like a sport. Is sport considered art? Not really. Then again video games are so diverse its really hard to label the whole genre as an art form; do you seriously want games like Call of Duty being considered artistic against deserving titles? Much like action films being regarded as artistic just because they're a form of film media? The whole thing is relative and should be judged according to the piece itself, not the genre.[/QUOTE] video games have a lot of artforms going into them, have you never stopped at a video game sountrack and went "oh wow that's cool" that's art
I believe most Britons are cunts
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44289197]until games get something that has irrevocably good writing, this will likely continue. gaming most glaring weakness is writing, it needs at least one guy/gal on the level of Isaac Asimov or something like that, who is interested in using games as a way to tell stories.[/QUOTE] Or we can just try and get everyone to play flow, that shit's pretty art right there. (Even if I never could figure out what the hell was going on)
[QUOTE=TestECull;44289538]Honestly, for me, to call something art is to acknowledge that it has no practical purpose, that its sole reason to exist in the world is to look pretty. Video games do so much more than that.[/QUOTE] You're saying art has no practical purpose? what about things that are art that also have a practical purpose, like decorative nutcrackers, or fireplaces?
Everything is art, Hell, Ride to Hell is art, its art how it can be so bad. Just because a good amount of games are pretty much action movies, doesn't mean its not art. If so [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_Shit"]this[/URL] isn't art then. Really, Art isn't some you pick and choose what is and what isn't.
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;44289775]Everything is art, Hell, Ride to Hell is art, its art how it can be so bad. Just because a good amount of games are pretty much action movies, doesn't mean its not art. If so [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_Shit"]this[/URL] isn't art then. Really, Art isn't some you pick and choose what is and what isn't.[/QUOTE] i am art
[QUOTE=Warriorx4;44289417]But that kinda sucks doesn't it? ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are in every sense of the word video games (as in they didn't have any kind of backlash like Gone Home did) and are wonderful examples of what the medium is capable of when it comes to fully utilizing its attributes as a video game to achieve something not possible in other mediums. I'd rather have more of that than simple walk here and gain exposition.[/QUOTE] oh i agree. i think that shadow of the colossus is possibly one of the most artistic pieces to grace videogames - the problem is that others won't see that. as people who play lots of videogames we very easily get the suspension of disbelief, and can be immersed in a work. that's something that I think is truly unique to videogames, and that potential hasn't been realized in the overwhelming majority of titles. however for the general population, that won't come so easily - first the respect for the medium has to be gained through simple exposition pieces like gone home that demonstrate a connection to what is traditionally called "art" - and then the power of the medium can be further explored
[QUOTE=The mouse;44289095]Surely Art is such a nebulous term that anything can be described as art?[/QUOTE] Art can be anything that's a product of culture.
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;44289505]I can understand why that affects how games are perceived, but games don't need "writing" to tell a good story. Gaming's strength as a medium is that the mechanics can be used to relate an experience directly to the player, without the use of abstractions like verbal communication. That's not to say writing has no place in gaming, [B]but games shouldn't be judged based on the critical theory that developed through other mediums.[/B][/QUOTE] i agree that games like mario, sonic, tetris, street fighter, tekken, etc don't need a decent story, but when most of industry tries and fails miserably when they try to make use of it, well... the widespread lack of decent writing in most games that NEED it, is far too glaring to overlook, and it needs to be fixed.
[QUOTE=Wazbat;44289023]I guess it's just a matter of taste, a large chunk of people over 30 only play casual mobile games, so they wouldn't consider it that.[/QUOTE] I would say that compared to other mediums, there are too many mainstream games that aren't in an art category. I know it's all a matter of perspective, but (and I apologise if it seems I'm being snobby here, but I am picking an example of something I enjoy), a Danny Trejo B-movie gains nowhere near as much attention as The Godfather. In video games that's the other way round. Gone Home gets a lot of flak from some, but CoD is really popular. Again, a matter of taste.
[QUOTE=Simski;44289719]I believe most Britons are cunts[/QUOTE] Where do you think the angry British cunt stereotype came from? Don't remind us please, we have to live with ourselves every day :v:
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44289288]i understand there are folks that are capable of good writing in the gaming industry, but what it needs isn't just good, or even excellent writing, it needs a person that will go down in history, that is capable of spectacular writing in every way, because thats how you change public opinion on something, you show something so utterly irrefutable, they're forced to accept it and change their opinion(even if slowly).[/QUOTE] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Planescape-torment-box.jpg[/img] Unfortunately, modern science has lost the secret of the arcane concept known as THAC0, and as such no one will ever be able to experience this game ever again. no but seriously, kotor 2 is better written than most of the actual star wars movies. The only reason that these games aren't recognized is that snobby artistic socialites who would recognize them don't know how to play games. which is fine by me. I say we embrace video games as the first exclusive medium.
[QUOTE=FoneJack;44289584]I still fail to understand your logic behind this argument. [/QUOTE] There is no argument, merely an opinion. I'm not asking anyone else to adopt my distinction between art and non-art, I'm merely stating what I use to decide if I think a given thing is art or not. And since art is such a wildly subjective topic it's no more right or wrong than your method. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not I like the piece, either. I don't like the mona lisa at all, for example. I think it's the most overrated piece of canvas to ever be touched by a paintbrush, and that it is little more than a polaroid from the days before polaroids. But I still consider it art. It doesn't have a practical purpose, its sole reason for existing is to look pretty. And many millions of people think it looks pretty and like it enough that it exists behind more security than most military bases. So it's art by my logic, even if I wouldn't give you a wooden nickel for the thing. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44289767]You're saying art has no practical purpose? what about things that are art that also have a practical purpose, like decorative nutcrackers, or fireplaces?[/QUOTE] I wouldn't consider those things art. They're pretty, yes. But they also serve a practical purpose. You can still crack nuts with a decorative nutcracker. You can still light a fire in a fancy looking fireplace. [url=http://www.ausmotive.com/images2/BMW-Art-Car-Jeff-Koons-01.jpg]And this BMW which looks like a unicorn vomited on it while both were in a wind tunnel?[/url] You can [url=http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/BMW-Art-Car-at-Le-Mans-Main.jpg]still very much race it in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.[/url] So I wouldn't consider it art either.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44290000]i agree that games like mario, sonic, tetris, street fighter, tekken, etc don't need a decent story, but when most of industry tries and fails miserably when they try to make use of it, well... the widespread lack of decent writing in most games that NEED it, is far too glaring to overlook, and it needs to be fixed.[/QUOTE] The problem comes when games try to be movies. I mean, fuck, ninety percent of actual movies that come out have garbage scripts. Why would you expect a bunch from a bunch of people inexperienced in storytelling trying to emulate movies? That being said, I think people are too harsh on games. They look at the writing separate from the game itself, which is wholly unfair in my opinion. A lot of games that are considered shallow and cliche I would argue do the bulk of their storytelling through the gameplay and the environment, in the same way that movies tell stories through different shot compositions and editing.
Arguing the meaning aside, studies like these are really more a focus on the general complimenting of creativity or quality that we intend when we say that something is artistic. I doubt the quality of the writing really matters to these people, since there have been many visually impressive games out there. It's really more what they think what purpose games serve. As a whole, games really come down to completing challenges and beating enemies which I think makes alot of people dismiss them as toys
The people saying video games aren't art are stupid, but so are the people firing back with examples like Gone Home or SotC as if there are some games that rise above others as "high art." People need to realize that "art" isn't a coveted title that automatically makes something more important, fucking anything created by someone for reasons that aren't purely functional is art, whether it's good or shit.
oh and that basically anyone above the age of 40 are as good at using new tech as they are at defusing a bomb
[QUOTE=Qwerty Bastard;44290428]The people saying video games aren't art are stupid, but so are the people firing back with examples like Gone Home or SotC as if there are some games that rise above others as "high art." People need to realize that "art" isn't a coveted title that automatically makes something more important, fucking anything created by someone for reasons that aren't purely functional is art, whether it's good or shit.[/QUOTE] I don't know about anyone else, but the reason I point out SotC is that it's a very simple, digestible concept that is expertly crafted on almost every level of production. It's also from a small team and an auteur director, which is something art people always love. Showing what makes SotC great is much easier than showing what makes Planescape great, for example. And even if they don't get the game part of it, there's plenty to appreciate in the visuals and the audio.
Gone Home is a game I'd legitimately consider art. Not in the way of a painting being art, but like a book being art. It's got a legitimately good story that's compounded by the storytelling (I hesitate to say 'gameplay'-- of course it's a game, it's basically the modern equivalent of a text-based adventure game or something, but neither Gone Home or text-based games have any real gameplay)
It depends on the games yes, but this statement is dumb.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMLEuTDhSVI&[/url] One of my favorite YouTubers put this pretty well (his channel is really small.) Gave me a different perspective to the point where I'd agree that they were not art.
its not even up to discussion video games ARE art. But, art is art while it makes a space for criticism and analysis of our culture, the art stops being art when it becomes part of the reiteration, of the business, when its being made as a product and only for the money. You can argue that thats how the video game industry works nowdays, but behind every game theres a bunch of people that believe in their creation and go beyond its profits...so, for me , games are and will always be a form of art.
Our priorities are beyond fucked. Here we are worried about what's art when in reality we can't even figure out a clear and agreeable definition of it.
[QUOTE=TestECull;44290217] I wouldn't consider those things art. They're pretty, yes. But they also serve a practical purpose. You can still crack nuts with a decorative nutcracker. You can still light a fire in a fancy looking fireplace. [url=http://www.ausmotive.com/images2/BMW-Art-Car-Jeff-Koons-01.jpg]And this BMW which looks like a unicorn vomited on it while both were in a wind tunnel?[/url] You can [url=http://www.sportscardigest.com/wp-content/uploads/BMW-Art-Car-at-Le-Mans-Main.jpg]still very much race it in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.[/url] So I wouldn't consider it art either.[/QUOTE] yeah, I think you have the average sort thinking about art out there. I think the average joe shmoe just thinks of art just as being shit that you hang on the wall or put on display in a corner and pretty much does jack shit except give you things to talk about during parties. You still have shitloads of product designers working on making their stuff look wicked sick, but you wouldnt stick your rad as hell moto helmet in the middle of your room
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