Valve: "We don't have any plans to change after EU Court Ruling" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=areolop;36731399]iirc Steam is an American company which is to be governed by US law. They dont give two shits about what the EU's definition of rental is.[/QUOTE] That makes it easy, they just ban import of Steam games. Of course they could circumvent it using US servers still, but they'd get their ass taken to court and lose. If the EU says you can't sell your product in the EU, you can't sell your product in the EU.

you can resell them but only for steam funds it could work

[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36730186]Why? It's no different from a book. You can just play em through, have your fun, and then just sell em back? That would completely fuck any possibility to profit off of games.[/QUOTE] Libraries killed the book industry. Blockbuster/Netflix/Redbox killed the movie industry.

I think the only people that don't support Valve right now currently own Dead Island or Revelations 2012.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;36732346]I think the only people that don't support Valve right now currently own Dead Island or Revelations 2012.[/QUOTE] dead island was semi half decent game though if you could forgive its repetitive nature

I'm sure this has been said before but the ruling doesn't even state that Valve HAS to add a service for selling used games. You are free to sell your Steam account as you wish, but good luck finding a legitimate service that does it.

[QUOTE=Legend286;36724727]"WHHAAA I CAN'T SELL SOMETHING I DON'T EVEN OWN, HOPE VALVE GETS SUED!!" This thread in a nutshell. It's like going to blockbuster and renting a film, then going and selling it somewhere else thinking it's your legal right because you "paid" for it.[/QUOTE] But I'm not renting it. I'm paying full price for it.

[QUOTE=PowerBall v1;36734667]But I'm not renting it. I'm paying full price for it.[/QUOTE] You're paying full price for an indefinite rental.

Even if a EU citizen were to report Valve's service (Steam) to the EU Commission for breaking the law we'd have to wait several years for a court ruling.

[QUOTE=krazipanda;36732179]you can resell them but only for steam funds it could work[/QUOTE] Hmm, I wonder if Steam could allow users to sell their games to other users but only for Steam Wallet money and Steam takes a certain % (like 3 or 5) as a service fee. That would be beneficial to both Steam and their users.

I'm not reading through 8 pages of argument but I'd like to point out that buying it during a steam sale then selling it at a higher price just wouldn't work because it'd be so easy for someone else to undercut you. Right now, Steam is a market in which there is one provider, Valve. If you think that Valve offers good deals now, just wait until you see how far down prices will go when you have millions of traders competing against each other. This would be a net win for the consumer, I don't know why anyone is defending Valve here.

[QUOTE=areolop;36731399]iirc Steam is an American company which is to be governed by US law. They dont give two shits about what the EU's definition of rental is.[/QUOTE] They have entered the European market, they have to follow EU market regulations.

[QUOTE=laxplayer77alt;36730787]But laws should be different for digitally distributed games![/QUOTE] Why? What about games that you buy retail but are forced to register with steam? Where do you put those? Steam won't allow you to resell that either. [QUOTE=areolop;36731399]iirc Steam is an American company which is to be governed by US law. They dont give two shits about what the EU's definition of rental is.[/QUOTE] They should if they plan to continue doing business inside of the EU.

You know, first thing they need to do is sort out regional pricing. MW2 is $20 in the US and $90 in Australia. On Steam. I've seen it for half the price in a physical store here in Australia. I thought digital distribution was supposed to be cheaper?

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36735176]I'm not reading through 8 pages of argument but I'd like to point out that buying it during a steam sale then selling it at a higher price just wouldn't work because it'd be so easy for someone else to undercut you. Right now, Steam is a market in which there is one provider, Valve. If you think that Valve offers good deals now, just wait until you see how far down prices will go when you have millions of traders competing against each other. This would be a net win for the consumer, I don't know why anyone is defending Valve here.[/QUOTE] A win for the consumer isn't always a good thing. Having milk be declared to be 100% free is FANTASTIC for the consumer. It could also make dairy farmers go out of business.

[QUOTE=geel9;36737396]A win for the consumer isn't always a good thing. Having milk be declared to be 100% free is FANTASTIC for the consumer. It could also make dairy farmers go out of business.[/QUOTE] We're having this problem in the UK actually. Milk is so cheap here that dairy farmers are having a hard time sustaining, and are starting to think about changing their produce for something more profitable.

[QUOTE=geel9;36737396]It could also make dairy farmers go out of business.[/QUOTE] which is bad for the consumer :downs:

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36742034]which is bad for the consumer :downs:[/QUOTE] So then you're agreeing with me.

Why are people targeting Steam and not every other digital service ever? Like iTunes maybe?

[QUOTE=geel9;36742691]So then you're agreeing with me.[/QUOTE] no?? I was saying that your example was absurd because it wasn't an example of doing something that would be good for the consumer.

[QUOTE=krazipanda;36732179]you can resell them but only for steam funds it could work[/QUOTE] Actually that's not a half bad idea.

A developer should be able to decide whether to allow steam users to resell their game or not. Maybe there could even be a (developer optional) limit as to how many times it can be resold, as to prevent game sharing.

[QUOTE=ProWaffle;36735419]You know, first thing they need to do is sort out regional pricing. MW2 is $20 in the US and $90 in Australia. On Steam. I've seen it for half the price in a physical store here in Australia. I thought digital distribution was supposed to be cheaper?[/QUOTE] I think the publisher sets regional pricing. So blame Activision, not Valve. also MW2 is shit why are you even thinking about buying it

[QUOTE=wraithcat;36735387]Why? What about games that you buy retail but are forced to register with steam? Where do you put those? Steam won't allow you to resell that either. They should if they plan to continue doing business inside of the EU.[/QUOTE] ill redirect you to my post: which is prob poorly written but, the problems arise with cd keys in my mind [QUOTE=laxplayer77alt;36728135]I think its more of a conundrum, because most games that require a cd and a cd key back in the day you could resell right, because you would give your friend the cd and the key, thus rendering that you could not play anymore. (Day before nocd * cdkeys online). Which would make the offer fair and logical (in my mind). Now a days since its all online how do you get past this since you do not have a cd but you have the key? Plus if i resold say a game like men of war that requires me to make an account and binds the cd key not only to steam but to the games multiplayer that uses gamespy how would i be able to hand that over in a nice and easy way? Also if that didn't happen i really didn't sell the game to them i just jipt them. On the flip side it would be nice to resell but i can't honestly see how it would work out perfectly[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=The Baconator;36742954]Why are people targeting Steam and not every other digital service ever? Like iTunes maybe?[/QUOTE] Maybe because this thread is about a statement that came from someone at Valve, not from Apple or anywhere else?

Selling back a digitally distributed game is stupid. Basically you would be just selling you're right to use the game again, but Valve wouldnt get anyting out of you selling you're game back to them. It's digital.

Hopefully Valve gets bit on the ass for this, Holtman's statement implies that they are above the law. fucking automerge

[QUOTE=ProWaffle;36735419]You know, first thing they need to do is sort out regional pricing. MW2 is $20 in the US and $90 in Australia. On Steam. I've seen it for half the price in a physical store here in Australia. I thought digital distribution was supposed to be cheaper?[/QUOTE] And afaik the Aussie dollar's higher than the US dollar, so really we should be paying less (via digital copies, obv. physical copies would have added shipping costs which would inflate end aussie price)!

[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;36749580]And afaik the Aussie dollar's higher than the US dollar, so really we should be paying less (via digital copies, obv. physical copies would have added shipping costs which would inflate end aussie price)![/QUOTE] Although the AUD and USD are roughly on par in value, purchasing power of the AUD is much, much lower than the USD. Federal minimum wage in the US is $7.25US, national minimum wage in Australia is $15.51AUD (more than double that of the US). You may think you get ripped off for paying $80AUD for new game releases, but when you consider that those in the United States pay $60USD for their new releases, you are actually getting a better deal (eg if you were working on minimum wage and didn't spend your paycheck on anything else, it would take you a bit over 5 hours to pay for an $80AUD game in Australia, while in the US it would take you a bit over 8 hours to be able to afford a $60USD game). And even then, you could import games into Australia from offshore and you'll get an even better deal.. If you're going to buy new AAA games just avoid Steam. Go to cdwow.com.au or ozgameshop.com instead.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36742987]no?? I was saying that your example was absurd because it wasn't an example of doing something that would be good for the consumer.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36735176]I'm not reading through 8 pages of argument but I'd like to point out that buying it during a steam sale then selling it at a higher price just wouldn't work because it'd be so easy for someone else to undercut you. Right now, Steam is a market in which there is one provider, Valve. If you think that Valve offers good deals now, just wait until you see how far down prices will go when you have millions of traders competing against each other. This would be a net win for the consumer, I don't know why anyone is defending Valve here.[/QUOTE] Your way is also bad for the consumer because the developer won't be able to make anymore games due to lack of profit and struggling to pay employee's while trying to make more games. Why bother paying the normal method when for two bucks you can get it from someone else, play it, then sell it to someone else while the developers end up going out of business. Unless your Valve, Rockstar, Blizzard, or EA you're fucked.