Valve: "We don't have any plans to change after EU Court Ruling" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36735176]I'm not reading through 8 pages of argument but I'd like to point out that buying it during a steam sale then selling it at a higher price just wouldn't work because it'd be so easy for someone else to undercut you. Right now, Steam is a market in which there is one provider, Valve. If you think that Valve offers good deals now, just wait until you see how far down prices will go when you have millions of traders competing against each other. This would be a net win for the consumer, I don't know why anyone is defending Valve here.[/QUOTE] If developers have to put an extremely low price on their sales to compete with traders, there will be no profit in having sales. The amount of money they will make from sales due to the extremely low amount of money they are charging and the large amount of people who can offer the same thing as them, having sales on games won't be as profitable as just making new products that other people don't own and can offer away. There won't be any sales, because they won't make money from sales anymore. Instead, they will make money from new products, and they will probably be forced to charge more money for the newly released games for it to be profitable enough to make money before people start selling their games for a lower price.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;36751224]Your way is also bad for the consumer because the developer won't be able to make anymore games due to lack of profit and struggling to pay employee's while trying to make more games. Why bother paying the normal method when for two bucks you can get it from someone else, play it, then sell it to someone else while the developers end up going out of business. Unless your Valve, Rockstar, Blizzard, or EA you're fucked.[/QUOTE] Same argument can and has been made for piracy, which has been around for as long as digital media has been around. So what's going on in reality? Well, for one thing [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1196751]PC game sales are up 230%.[/url] You know which other market entitles customers to resell their purchases? Pretty much every single one there is. While software operates on slightly different principles than physical items, being able to trade your copy for money is hardly going to make developers go out of business. We've been able to sell games discs second hand for a long time, that is until devs started implementing dumb limitations like installing games on a maximum of 3 computers and whatnot. This kind of practise is illegal in all other markets and it should be too in the software industry. We all love Valve and (for the most part) the games industry as a whole but vouching for monopoly and skewed seller/reseller practises is counterproductive for us. Thus the EU court ruling. [editline]13th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;36751343]If developers have to put an extremely low price on their sales to compete with traders, there will be no profit in having sales. The amount of money they will make from sales due to the extremely low amount of money they are charging and the large amount of people who can offer the same thing as them, having sales on games won't be as profitable as just making new products that other people don't own and can offer away. There won't be any sales, because they won't make money from sales anymore. Instead, they will make money from new products, and they will probably be forced to charge more money for the newly released games for it to be profitable enough to make money before people start selling their games for a lower price.[/QUOTE] Just like reselling your VHS/DVD/Blu-ray movies killed the film industry

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;36751224]Your way is also bad for the consumer because the developer won't be able to make anymore games due to lack of profit and struggling to pay employee's while trying to make more games. Why bother paying the normal method when for two bucks you can get it from someone else, play it, then sell it to someone else while the developers end up going out of business. Unless your Valve, Rockstar, Blizzard, or EA you're fucked.[/QUOTE] the exact same thing happens already with bargain-bin resales and the industry is strong as ever I don't see why facepunch is defending artificial inflation of game prices

The thing is, reselling digitally would be so easy. Selling my old TV requires a fair bit of work - I have to advertise it, find a buyer and meet up with the buyer in person to make the exchange. Reselling Steam games would be more like a stockmarket. There would be buy orders and sell orders probably, and I would be able to sell my entire library in seconds. I could actually imagine this cutting sales in half or more, wait a couple of days after release and you'll be able to play the game at a drastically reduced price. [editline]13th July 2012[/editline] However Valve isn't above the law, so fail to see how they get of saying that they "don't have any plans to change" after the ruling.

[QUOTE=PowerBall v1;36752003]However Valve isn't above the law, so fail to see how they get of saying that they "don't have any plans to change" after the ruling.[/QUOTE] Probably that they don't know any good strategy to handle this new ruling yet that would not require a massive overhaul of their distribution system and that wouldn't possibly cause a lot of unplanned side-effects that might be harmful to their business practices, so they're going to keep going steady and handle the problem when it comes their way.

[QUOTE=Simski;36752067]Probably that they don't know any good strategy to handle this new ruling yet that would not require a massive overhaul of their distribution system and that wouldn't possibly cause a lot of unplanned side-effects that might be harmful to their business practices, so they're going to keep going steady and handle the problem when it comes their way.[/QUOTE] Yeah I suppose "not having any plans to change" isn't the same as "not going to change".

[QUOTE=PowerBall v1;36752325]Yeah I suppose "not having any plans to change" isn't the same as "not going to change".[/QUOTE] They could either be waiting for the right plan, or they could be just be hoping that nobody will take action. One possible outcome of people taking action against their practices in the EU would after all be to simply stop providing the service to EU, which is something I think many people would not want. Imagine the "This video is not available in your country" things on youtube, but with new games on steam.

Valve are above the law in this case because the law [b]doesn't apply to them.[/b]

[QUOTE=geel9;36753333]Valve are above the law in this case because the law [b]doesn't apply to them.[/b][/QUOTE] They trade in the EU, therefore it does apply to them.

[QUOTE=lavacano;36754144]They trade in the EU, therefore it does apply to them.[/QUOTE] Did you not read the first ~6 pages of this thread?

To be honest, I can imagine people downloading games and then passing them along if steam games could be sold.

[QUOTE=geel9;36754732]Did you not read the first ~6 pages of this thread?[/QUOTE] Didn't you?

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;36732193]Libraries killed the book industry. Blockbuster/Netflix/Redbox killed the movie industry.[/QUOTE] I dunno about you, but I don't really like libraries. Much more fun owning a book.

[QUOTE=lavacano;36754144]They trade in the EU, therefore it does apply to them.[/QUOTE] Except that means nothing. That's like saying this applies to people who commit sodomy in the EU because they're doing it in the EU. The law applies to something. Valve has nothing to do with that something. Thus, it does not apply to Valve. Yes, it applies in the sense that it's a law that could potentially affect them, but that's meaningless since every law in an area you're in [I]could[/I] affect you via some sequence of events.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36761565]Except that means nothing. That's like saying this applies to people who commit sodomy in the EU because they're doing it in the EU. The law applies to something. Valve has nothing to do with that something. Thus, it does not apply to Valve. Yes, it applies in the sense that it's a law that could potentially affect them, but that's meaningless since every law in an area you're in [I]could[/I] affect you via some sequence of events.[/QUOTE] this isnt how the law works doofus

[QUOTE=PowerBall v1;36752003]The thing is, reselling digitally would be so easy. Selling my old TV requires a fair bit of work - I have to advertise it, find a buyer and meet up with the buyer in person to make the exchange. Reselling Steam games would be more like a stockmarket. There would be buy orders and sell orders probably, and I would be able to sell my entire library in seconds. I could actually imagine this cutting sales in half or more, wait a couple of days after release and you'll be able to play the game at a drastically reduced price. [editline]13th July 2012[/editline] However Valve isn't above the law, so fail to see how they get of saying that they "don't have any plans to change" after the ruling.[/QUOTE] Because the license isn't owned by you.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36761565]That's like saying this applies to people who commit sodomy in the EU because they're doing it in the EU.[/QUOTE] Actually, it isn't, because this law has nothing to do with sodomy.

It also has nothing to do with Valve. I am not sure how you guys are not getting this. You do realize Valve has lawyers, right? Actual guys at desks at a firm who know things about laws and can say "yeah this doesn't affect you" fairly authoritatively? Or do you assume they just flippantly disregard legal news?

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36762592]Or do you assume they just flippantly disregard legal news?[/QUOTE] Actually, I'm assuming that "no plans" means "yeah we have no idea what the hell we're going to do here, we'll figure that out when we come to it"

Doesn't Valve legally own your steam account? All you are doing is paying them to activate games on the account.

[QUOTE=lavacano;36762641]Actually, I'm assuming that "no plans" means "yeah we have no idea what the hell we're going to do here, we'll figure that out when we come to it"[/QUOTE] Which is not what it means, so you're making shit up. You know what you should do? Email somebody at Valve and [I]ask them if that's what they mean.[/I]

[QUOTE=lavacano;36762641]Actually, I'm assuming that "no plans" means "yeah we have no idea what the hell we're going to do here, we'll figure that out when we come to it"[/QUOTE] You really, really should read the first few pages. We went over this. [b]over and over and over[/b]

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36761565]Except that means nothing. That's like saying this applies to people who commit sodomy in the EU because they're doing it in the EU. The law applies to something. Valve has nothing to do with that something. Thus, it does not apply to Valve. Yes, it applies in the sense that it's a law that could potentially affect them, but that's meaningless since every law in an area you're in [I]could[/I] affect you via some sequence of events.[/QUOTE] First, thanks for picking such a diverse topic for your example. Second, if your are in the country YOU WOULD BE accountable. Why not just stick to the topic at hand? Valve may trade in the EU, but are BASED OUT of the EU. That makes things more complicated. Interpretation of what involves a license and how the law is enforced helps as well. Always loopholes to consider too.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36725095]:v: [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("" - Ninja101))[/highlight] [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Goatse" - Ninja101))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Ugh tarnations, Getting sick of the trolls in the News Secttion.

I mean, I thought we came to the conclusion that Valve simply can't bring you to court if you sold your games/account, not that they are legally obligated to provide a service for that to happen.