Valve: "We don't have any plans to change after EU Court Ruling" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Medevilae;36722523]There's way more to it than that and (I think) you know it[/QUOTE] Well yeah sure, I agree I did go off to be a bit of sensationalistic at the end, but in the end it boils down to it. And that doesn't make the rest of my points any less valid.

[QUOTE=Fetret;36722492]but since it is Valve we get people defending the fact that you cannot sell something you have bought fair and square just because the company does not allow you to do so.[/QUOTE] i love valve for what they've done for the PC market but if they're gonna dodge EU laws then they should get a slap on the wrist

No other industry stops you from reselling a legally bought products, I don't see why the video game one should be any different. Go to a store and buy a 50% off TV then resell it. Will anyone try to stop you? No, because you legally own the product. Same thing with movies, no-one stops you from selling your DVD after having seen it once. The videogame industry isn't a very niche industry anymore, it needs to start acting like a real one, starting off by respecting customer's legal right to re-sell what they want. If the industry can't survive this way, then there is something wrong with it. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] As for Valve, they have to comply like everyone else. The EU isn't exactly afraid of giving out titanic fines either.

[QUOTE=Fetret;36722492]Some advocates of piracy defend that since it is copying and not actually stealing a product (meaning a unit of game has not been removed from the market, it has simply been copied), it shouldn't be treated as theft.[/QUOTE] I can't stand that argument, it's such a pathetic case when you try and apply it to any regular person who tries to sell software online for a living. It never makes it right, and it's still theft. As for Facepunch arguing that piracy is OK, not all of us think that.

[QUOTE=Fetret;36722492]You can resell a game you bought in physical form, you should be able to do the same with a game you bought online, since excluding sales, you are paying almost exactly the same amount of money and in some cases even more (cough* Diablo 3 *cough). And you're just twisting the piracy argument to suit your case. Some advocates of piracy defend that since it is copying and not actually stealing a product (meaning a unit of game has not been removed from the market, it has simply been copied), it shouldn't be treated as theft. Second hand games are similar, the game continues to circulate in the market, only the producer stops getting money for it. But you're right, the hypocrisy of FP is amazing. If any other company had made an announcement like this, this thread would have filled with posts claiming how that company is nothing more than money grabbing, game destroying soulless entities, but since it is Valve we get people defending the fact that you cannot sell something you have bought fair and square just because the company does not allow you to do so.[/QUOTE] But it pretty much is like that with other companies. You can sell your xbox games, but now they all come with codes that make it so that only the first user gets full functionality without having to pay extra. If it was possible for consoles to bind games to a specific user and prevent resale they would do. Steam is a PC application and was designed from the ground up for this purpose, so it's no surprise it doesn't let you resell your games.

what I don't like is I have all these steam games in my library that I just don't play because either they were single player and finished or I was just bored of them. It would be nice to use a points system were you could trade games for points which you can put towards new games. Reselling your games in the UK has never been profitable, when I was kid I used to sell 1-3 games back to the shop with some extra money to get a new one. I wouldn't expect to get money back when trading in games.

I don't know. This is software, and you don't exactly get to sell back/sell your software after it's been used. I mean, if you have a physical copy, then sure, I guess, but like, I can't sell the copy of Windows 8 I'm using right this second. It's not physical or real, I can't say to someone "This software I'm using, you want it?" And while there are physical copies, like with OS install disks, you have a limit to how many installs you get and then you can't sell it because it's useless. Why is it any different for games? Digital games are a whole different animal than physical- everything from the transport, installation, usage, etc is all different. While it would be great to say "Yea, you can resell your software" it just doesn't work like that and never has unless you had a physical copy. There aren't physical copies, end of story. Same reason why you can't sell the songs you bought on iTunes or the images you downloaded from LMAO pics or something.

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;36722250] Now how Valve is going to get around that in the [B]UK[/B], I don't know. [/QUOTE] Just going to point out this is a European ruling, not an English one.

[QUOTE=acds;36722599]No other industry stops you from reselling a legally bought products, I don't see why the video game one should be any different. Go to a store and buy a 50% off TV then resell it. Will anyone try to stop you? No, because you legally own the product. Same thing with movies, no-one stops you from selling your DVD after having seen it once. The videogame industry isn't a very niche industry anymore, it needs to start acting like a real one, starting off by respecting customer's legal right to re-sell what they want. If the industry can't survive this way, then there is something wrong with it. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] As for Valve, they have to comply like everyone else. The EU isn't exactly afraid of giving out titanic fines either.[/QUOTE] Yeah but you can't copy a TV.

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;36722650]I can't stand that argument, it's such a pathetic case when you try and apply it to any regular person who tries to sell software online for a living. It never makes it right, and it's still theft. As for Facepunch arguing that piracy is OK, not all of us think that.[/QUOTE] Nobody says it's right, just that it's different to stealing.

[QUOTE=Vasili;36722675]what I don't like is I have all these steam games in my library that I just don't play because either they were single player and finished or I was just bored of them. It would be nice to use a points system were you could trade games for points which you can put towards new games. Reselling your games in the UK has never been profitable, when I was kid I used to sell 1-3 games back to the shop with some extra money to get a new one. I wouldn't expect to get money back when trading in games.[/QUOTE] And see, this would be nice, but the reason this works with physical items is because you're giving them an object with solid market value that can be resold. They can physically stock that item on their shelf and make a profit off it. Not the case with digital items. There aren't limited copies, or physical items to stock, nothing to resell to make profit from by the retailer.

There are somethings that can be resold, but something that can be bought, copied, and then sold multiple times is not something that should be able to be resold.

I think it would be a decent Idea to sell your licence to someone else through steam. Hell, they could even make a bit of money off of it. You choose to sell a game, you set the price, they collect a 5% transfer fee. They don't lose money since they've already sold you the licence, you don't lose money with the transaction (having the fee added to the sum of the purchaser as apposed to subtracting it from the price you set) and the purchaser get's the game at the lower price.

[QUOTE=ChaosUnleash;36722664]But it pretty much is like that with other companies. You can sell your xbox games, but now they all come with codes that make it so that only the first user gets full functionality without having to pay extra. If it was possible for consoles to bind games to a specific user and prevent resale they would do. Steam is a PC application and was designed from the ground up for this purpose, so it's no surprise it doesn't let you resell your games.[/QUOTE] Well then, while we're at it, why don't we also discuss the explicit constant-online DRM system Steam provides for all of its developers under the guise of a different name and the fact that you can't play your games outside of Steam as well. But if an individual game provides this security, it's ridiculous! And that's just one additional difference between a modern day PC driven platform and an old-school DRMless shipped unit. There's a lot of issues with Steam in regards to comparing it to boxed unit sales, but the architecture shouldn't serve as a restrictive platform.

[QUOTE=Teddi Orange;36722689]Just going to point out this is a European ruling, not an English one.[/QUOTE] the UK is in the EU so their laws also affect us

If it was EA making those statements I bet there'd be outrage...

[QUOTE=toaster468;36722690]Yeah but you can't copy a TV.[/QUOTE] Quite sure reselling the licenses has very little to do with copying. That's piracy, not reselling your legally bought license.

[URL="http://www.greenmangaming.com/"]Green Man Gaming[/URL] lets users sell/trade games (including the ones for sale/free) and has been around for some time

[QUOTE=krakadict;36722742]the UK is in the EU so their laws also affect us[/QUOTE] Read what amcfaggot put down first and then consider what you said.

[QUOTE=parket;36722174]maybe mark which price the game was bought at so it can't be sold higher? then take 20% off every resale?????? or would that be too smart?[/QUOTE] you should add more question marks it totally doesn't make you look like a douche.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];36722702']And see, this would be nice, but the reason this works with physical items is because you're giving them an object with solid market value that can be resold. They can physically stock that item on their shelf and make a profit off it. Not the case with digital items. There aren't limited copies, or physical items to stock, nothing to resell to make profit from by the retailer.[/QUOTE] I think the idea of making it non profitable and making the points limited would make people less willing to actually sell said games back due to it not being very profitable. Also make it so players can't trade with each other perhaps. I don't know though, I'm not particularly bothered if I can't trade games back.

[QUOTE=parket;36722174]maybe mark which price the game was bought at so it can't be sold higher? then take 20% off every resale?????? or would that be too smart?[/QUOTE] If I bought a license, I should be free to resell it however and at whatever price I please.

You do realize if this was in place nobody would buy "new" games any longer? The reason it works for physical items is because it's impossible to restrict the resale of them. The only way this could possibly ever work is if the game is sold back to Steam for what GameStop would give you, then thrown into a pool of "used copies" that are available for purchase on Steam for, say, $5 off; just like how GameStop works. Any other way and Steam gets screwed over hard. If Steam gets screwed over, you can say goodbye to all the benefits of digital download, like sales and cheaper prices. If you put this in place Steam effectively becomes a brick and mortar store that sends you the game disc over the Internet instead of by mail. It will be no different at all.

If you can resell a game only once then I can see this happening, but if the guy you sold your game can sell it again then this will ruin many things. Also there's other digital distributors than Steam and this ruling applies to them also.

[QUOTE=Teddi Orange;36722764]Read what amcfaggot put down first and then consider what you said.[/QUOTE] EU laws still effect the UK

[QUOTE=Downsider;36722841]You do realize if this was in place nobody would buy "new" games any longer? The reason it works for physical items is because it's impossible to restrict the resale of them. The only way this could possibly ever work is if the game is sold back to Steam for what GameStop would give you, then thrown into a pool of "used copies" that are available for purchase on Steam for, say, $5 off; just like how GameStop works. Any other way and Steam gets screwed over hard. If Steam gets screwed over, you can say goodbye to all the benefits of digital download, like sales and cheaper prices. If you put this in place Steam effectively becomes a brick and mortar store that sends you the game disc over the Internet instead of by mail. It will be no different at all.[/QUOTE] You make it sound like you can just magic up used copies from nowhere. Somebody would still have to buy the original new copy. Besides I actually wouldn't mind if steam was just an "online retail store" and not some restricting online account tied drm.

[QUOTE=Fetret;36722287]"Wait what? What do you mean you can't return stuff bought during a sale? I know that's how it works in actual retail shops, but I expected it to be different in an online store! Plus how was I to know you had the records showing that I bought the game when it was on sale?!"[/QUOTE] "Oh look, I have a game that I can trade in to steam! But what if I want to play it again sometime? Maybe I'll copy the game files over to another location, and then download a crack for it! That way I get the money/credit of giving the game back without actually losing the game!" Let's apply that to a TV bought from a shop. "I can trade my TV in. If I do trade it in there's no way for me to retain/regain it without spending more money."

lol you know you're a fanboy when you're arguing against the customer

[QUOTE=parket;36722916]lol you know you're a fanboy when you're arguing against the customer[/QUOTE] stop

[QUOTE=koeniginator;36722101]I hope they don't get in any legal trouble[/QUOTE] -Holy shit wrong thread-