Valve: "We don't have any plans to change after EU Court Ruling" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=parket;36723564]well unless movies are all of a sudden software no you cant moron[/QUOTE] Then by your own logic, you would be only able to sell the game.exe and not anything else the game requires to run, because only that is actually software.

"a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" their tos says that it's limited you fuckwit [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=parket;36723460]"Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a [b][u][i]limited[/i][/u][/b], terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software."[/QUOTE] You posted it yourself

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;36723619]Then by your own logic, you would be only able to sell the game.exe and not anything else the game requires to run, because only that is actually software.[/QUOTE] yeah maybe if when you downloaded VLC player you also got every movie in existence, but you don't and they aren't resources required to operate the software

[QUOTE=jordguitar;36723439]Of course they are not going to do anything as it is a bit hard to apply European law in the USA. Now they are probably going to wait until the first court case over it (like everyone else) then make the decision on what to do but they in the end can only apply it to their games and nothing else. All the other games will need their publishers to allow this.[/QUOTE] No, you sell stuff in Europe, you comply with European laws.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723625]"a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" their tos says that it's limited you fuckwit [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] You posted it yourself[/QUOTE] what part of that is nullified by this ruling are you just not getting lol

[QUOTE=parket;36722112]i hope they do its bullshit you cant resell your own steam games[/QUOTE] You have no idea how bad this is. It's like renting a game for as long as you want and then returning it to trade for another full price title. They could make it so games lose value over time, but then after a while that would be like taking away the option of online trade-ins all together.

[QUOTE=Jurikuer;36723662]You have no idea how bad this is. It's like renting a game for as long as you want and then returning it to trade for another full price title. They could make it so games lose value over time, but then after a while that would be like taking away the option of online trade-ins all together.[/QUOTE] no you have no idea how trivial this is, green man gaming have been doing it for as long as I can remember with moderate success

[QUOTE=parket;36723657]what part of that is nullified by this ruling are you just not getting lol[/QUOTE] maybe he's not 'getting it' because you neglect to post any fucking proof that it nullifies the fact that it's limited. nobody is 'getting it' because you just aren't making sense.

[QUOTE=parket;36723657]what part of that is nullified by this ruling are you just not getting lol[/QUOTE] THE RULING SAYS YOU CAN SELL ANY UNLIMITED EXCLUSIVE LICENSES YOU OWN, NOTHING MORE Valve's ToS specifically states that the license you are permitted to use is LIMITED, they can say fuck you to the law because the law doesn't encompass them It's the same thing as renting a fucking movie and saying you own it.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723517]"a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license" "Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software." "No title or OWNERSHIP in the Software" NO TITLE OR [B]OWNERSHIP[/B] I swear you are retarded or something[/QUOTE] You're still wrong about that. No OWNERSHIP of the [b]SOFTWARE[/b]. As in, "This licence that lets you use our game, but you don't own the software that makes up the game, you have no right to sell our software or modify/ claim it for yourself unless we say so." Not, "You don't own this licence to this software. "

[QUOTE=parket;36723648]yeah maybe if when you downloaded VLC player you also got every movie in existence, but you don't and they aren't resources required to operate the software[/QUOTE] Resources required to operate software =/= software itself.

[QUOTE=parket;36723678]no you have no idea how trivial this is, green man gaming have been doing it for as long as I can remember with moderate success[/QUOTE] And Valve haven't been with some fucking monumental success, go figure.

[QUOTE=Character;36723680]maybe he's not 'getting it' because you neglect to post any fucking proof that it nullifies the fact that it's limited. nobody is 'getting it' because you just aren't making sense.[/QUOTE] sorry i just assumed you were going to be actually familiar with the law before actually trying to make any kind of credible claim rofl "Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the licence prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy." [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=RayvenQ;36723692]Resources required to operate software =/= software itself.[/QUOTE] it's licensed with the software though lol?

[QUOTE=hexpunK;36723688]You're still wrong about that. No OWNERSHIP of the [b]SOFTWARE[/b]. As in, "This licence that lets you use our game, but you down is the software that makes up the game, you have no right to sell our software or modify/ claim it for yourself unless we say so." Not, "You don't own this licence to this software. "[/QUOTE] a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license the law does not encompass Valve at all because the law is targeting licenses GIVEN TO YOU WHOLLY, VALVE DOES NOT DO THAT, YOU ARE RENTING FROM VALVE FOR AN INDEFINITE TIME.

[QUOTE=parket;36723697] it's licensed with the software though lol?[/QUOTE] No it isn't.

" a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" valve does not give a license agreement granting the customer the right to use the copy for an unlimited period, their ToS specifically says that they can remove the license at any fucking time they want

[QUOTE=parket;36723697]sorry i just assumed you were going to be actually familiar with the law before actually trying to make any kind of credible claim rofl "Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the licence prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."[/QUOTE] oh I wasn't aware that stated it made it unlimited (even though it doesn't), thanks for clearing my mind 'rofl'!! all that says is that if it's unlimited (WHICH IT IS NOT, I STRESS THIS, IT'S NOT AN UNLIMITED TIME LICENSE) that they can resell it.

i'm going to laugh when Valve is left untouched. which they will be I can't believe i've actually sat down and read through parket's posts. ugh what a shame

Valve is a fucking rental service at heart, that operates quite similar to Gamefly, due to the games being INDEFINITE rentals, you do not PURCHASE the games, you PURCHASE the ability to use them on an account that Valve controls first and foremost

Just asking this: Valve TOS says that you don't own games you have purchased from there, right? But TOS does not matter in court if it conflicts with EU laws. I'm a little confused right now.

[QUOTE=fixture;36723748]i'm going to laugh when Valve is left untouched. which they will be I can't believe i've actually sat down and read through parket's posts. ugh what a shame[/QUOTE] i swear i popped a fucking blood vessel

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723710]a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license the law does not encompass Valve at all because the law is targeting licenses GIVEN TO YOU WHOLLY, VALVE DOES NOT DO THAT, YOU ARE RENTING FROM VALVE FOR AN INDEFINITE TIME.[/QUOTE] no this applies to cases where " the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" which is exactly what valve does with steam, this nullifies the ToS

hence why you're supposed to get banned when selling your accounts to another person

[QUOTE=SinineSiil;36723776]Just asking this: Valve TOS says that you don't own games you have purchased from there, right? But TOS does not matter in court. EU laws matter. I'm a little confused right now.[/QUOTE] The ToS isn't designed to work around the laws though, seeing as Steam is a rental service, this law does not oppose rental services.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723710]a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license the law does not encompass Valve at all because the law is targeting licenses GIVEN TO YOU WHOLLY, VALVE DOES NOT DO THAT, YOU ARE RENTING FROM VALVE FOR AN INDEFINITE TIME.[/QUOTE] Uhh. I was pointing out you were wrong about the software ownership line. Nothing else. You were right about the rest of the licence terms. Calm your tits

[QUOTE=parket;36723783]no this applies to cases where " the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" which is exactly what valve does with steam, this nullifies the ToS[/QUOTE] Except Steams licences are limited, not unlimited.

[QUOTE=parket;36723783]no this applies to cases where " the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" which is exactly what valve does with steam, this nullifies the ToS[/QUOTE] no they give you a limited fucking license, it's like you're retarded and don't read and the only argument you have is that "unlimited" is the opposite of "limited" so you just assume you're right

[QUOTE=Character;36723746]oh I wasn't aware that stated it made it unlimited (even though it doesn't), thanks for clearing my mind 'rofl'!! all that says is that if it's unlimited (WHICH IT IS NOT, I STRESS THIS, IT'S NOT AN UNLIMITED TIME LICENSE) that they can resell it.[/QUOTE] it covers pretty much every rental apart from limited time rentals, like you would do from extravision

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;36723619]Then by your own logic, you would be only able to sell the game.exe and not anything else the game requires to run, because only that is actually software.[/QUOTE] definition of software includes associated data/assets that contribute to the intended runtime outcome of the program

I think many people here fail to see is that there should be different rules on how to handle digital vs tangible media. If selling used games is the situation. There has to be totally different set of standards than that of physically retailing. You can't just impose the same old regulations and ideals.