Valve: "We don't have any plans to change after EU Court Ruling"

[Character]

[QUOTE=parket;36723783]no this applies to cases where " the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" which is exactly what valve does with steam, this nullifies the ToS[/QUOTE]

no it fucking doesn't. what aren't you getting? valve doesn't do anything 'unlimited' with licenses at all, and if you're saying steam itself, you're still fucking wrong because "in return form payment of a fee" you don't pay for Steam.

[NoPartyHats]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;36723796]Uhh. I was pointing out you were wrong about the software ownership line. Nothing else. You were right about the rest of the licence terms. Calm your tits[/QUOTE]

sorry i'm just in one o' them arguing moods, no hard feelings mang

[parket]

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;36723803]Except Steams licences are limited, not unlimited.[/QUOTE]

it's a license agreement that lasts an unlimited period

e.g. everything that isn't time restricted

[NoPartyHats]

[QUOTE=parket;36723820]it covers pretty much every rental apart from limited time rentals, like you would do from extravision[/QUOTE]

Valve does limited time rentals you little shit holy hell it's like you've lived your whole life thinking that you actually own your games on steam.

[rrkpp_]

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723818]no they give you a limited fucking license, it's like you're retarded and don't read and the only argument you have is that "unlimited" is the opposite of "limited" so you just assume you're right[/QUOTE]

the entire point of this ruling is that the "limited licenses" are now in your ownership genius

holy shit i know you're frustrated but the entire purpose of this law was so that you own software you purchase despite whatever stupid ToS trickery goes on at the time of purchase.

[parket]

[QUOTE=Character;36723828]no it fucking doesn't. what aren't you getting? valve doesn't do anything 'unlimited' with licenses at all, and if you're saying steam itself, you're still fucking wrong because "in return form payment of a fee" you don't pay for Steam.[/QUOTE]

but you pay for the licenses they give you, which last for an unlimited period of time in most cases

[NoPartyHats]

No the point of the ruling is to say that if I bought a game from gamestop i can sell it to my buddies or to companies because i now own that unlimited license.

Valve does rentals, rentals are LIMITED.

Are you trying to say that I can sell the movies i get off netflix?

[Character]

[QUOTE=parket;36723856]but you pay for the licenses they give you, which last for an unlimited period of time in most cases[/QUOTE]

um no, it's licensed as limited because they can take it away whenever they want, e.g if you're banned or something. I don't see why you think being a saint on Steam and having no negative records on anything suddenly turns 'limited' into 'unlimited' when it's not legally unlimited.

[parket]

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36723849]the entire point of this ruling is that the "limited licenses" are now in your ownership genius

holy shit i know you're frustrated but the entire purpose of this law was so that you own software you purchase despite whatever stupid ToS trickery goes on at the time of purchase.[/QUOTE]

i wouldnt bother, you're arguing with this:

[img]http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/400447_2311720206099_289056631_n.jpg[/img]

[NoPartyHats]

[QUOTE=parket;36723856]but you pay for the licenses they give you, which last for an unlimited period of time in most cases[/QUOTE]

Indefinite and unlimited are 2 entirely different concepts and you don't seem to get that.

[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]

seeing as you need one more ban to be perma'd that's not too fucking smart friend

[RayvenQ]

[QUOTE=parket;36723837]it's a license agreement that lasts an unlimited period

e.g. everything that isn't time restricted[/QUOTE]

It isn't an unlimited period, it's an indeterminate period, not unlimited, but not strictly defined either, if it was unlimited, they'd not be legally able to ban accounts.

[parket]

[QUOTE=Character;36723875]um no, it's licensed as limited because they take it away whenever they want, e.g if you're banned or something. 'most cases' doesn't apply to the law honey buns.[/QUOTE]

it's a limited license that lasts an unlimited period, you do understand the difference between the type of license and the concept of time don't you?

[fixture]

[QUOTE=parket;36723856]but you pay for the licenses they give you, which last for an unlimited period of time in most cases[/QUOTE]

dude do you really think a server/computer/whatever hosting your games online will last as long as a CD you keep in the cupboard

[Geel]

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36723849]the entire point of this ruling is that the "limited licenses" are now in your ownership genius

holy shit i know you're frustrated but the entire purpose of this law was so that you own software you purchase despite whatever stupid ToS trickery goes on at the time of purchase.[/QUOTE]

Please show us where it says the limited licenses are now under your ownership.

[Digimutant]

Ah, digital return-to-store? Quite useful for people who have games they didn't really enjoy and want to try something else.

[NoPartyHats]

[QUOTE=parket;36723897]it's a limited license that lasts an unlimited period, you do understand the difference between the type of license and the concept of time don't you?[/QUOTE]

no they last an indefinite amount of time, do you know what that means? that means that it CAN be cut off at any time without repercussion.

[Character]

[QUOTE=parket;36723897]it's a limited license that lasts an unlimited period, you do understand the difference between the type of license and the concept of time don't you?[/QUOTE]

oh my god it doesn't last an unlimited period because it's gone eventually, you're not granted a game until death, that's why it states in the TOS and in any fucking legal documents that it's LIMITED. this simple concept makes this ruling invalid for them as they are not selling unlimited, unexpiring licenses.

[rrkpp_]

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723869]No the point of the ruling is to say that if I bought a game from gamestop i can sell it to my buddies or to companies because i now own that unlimited license.

Valve does rentals, rentals are LIMITED.

Are you trying to say that I can sell the movies i get off netflix?[/QUOTE]

you've always been able to sell retail games because the "license" is justified just by possession of the disc. this entire ruling revolves around digital software licenses.

netflix movies aren't software, try again

[Catastrio]

I'm surprised this is even an issue for FPers. I mean one of the reasons I like Steam is I have 100+ game library that takes up ZERO space until I need them.

I buy games I WANT to own.

If I'm unsure I wait for a sale.

Even bad games I'll either replay eventually and if I don't, it's not a big deal. Maybe it's because most of FP is in the 13-15 age bracket but honestly, after having a Steam account for 7 years, I have never once wanted to return a game. If I needed money for one I'd simply go get it.

[parket]

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;36723895]It isn't an unlimited period, it's an indeterminate period, not unlimited, but not strictly defined either, if it was unlimited, they'd not be legally able to ban accounts.[/QUOTE]

yes they would because the license is terminable lol

[NoPartyHats]

Software is a collection of computer programs and related data that provides the instructions for telling a computer what to do and how to do it.

so is a .wav not telling my computer how to project the image on the screen?

[Geel]

[QUOTE=rapperkid04;36723943]I'm surprised this is even an issue for FPers. I mean one of the reasons I like Steam is I have 100+ game library that takes up ZERO space until I need them.

I buy games I WANT to own.

If I'm unsure I wait for a sale.

Even bad games I'll either replay eventually and if I don't, it's not a big deal. Maybe it's because most of FP is in the 13-15 age bracket but honestly, after having a Steam account for 7 years, I have never once wanted to return a game. If I needed money for one I'd simply go get it.[/QUOTE]

Because it's a terrible idea to be able to return digital games and it would destroy the industry?

[NoPartyHats]

[QUOTE=parket;36723945]yes they would because the license is terminable lol[/QUOTE]

Terminable and Unlimited are mutually exclusive.

[rrkpp_]

[QUOTE=geel9;36723903]Please show us where it says the limited licenses are now under your ownership.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/court-justice-european-union-rules-author-software-cannot-oppose-resale-his-used-licences[/url]

your "limited license" can be transferred to someone else, the period in which your license grants you access to software doesn't affect your ownership of the "temporary" license itself

[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=geel9;36723961]Because it's a terrible idea to be able to return digital games and it would destroy the industry?[/QUOTE]

literally nobody said you should be able to return the games, stop posting until you've caught up with the thread / developed an opinion worth hearing

[parket]

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723966]Terminable and Unlimited are mutually exclusive.[/QUOTE]

for all purposes a license is deemed unlimited until terminated

[NoPartyHats]

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36723970][url]http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/court-justice-european-union-rules-author-software-cannot-oppose-resale-his-used-licences[/url]

your "limited license" can be transferred to someone else, the period in which your license grants you access to software doesn't affect your ownership of the "temporary" license itself

[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]

literally nobody said you should be able to return the games, stop posting until you've caught up with the thread / developed an opinion worth hearing[/QUOTE]

"an author of software cannot oppose the resale..."

oh, an author? i didn't realize that Valve authored Hammerfight, the more you know

[Geel]

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36723970][url]http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/court-justice-european-union-rules-author-software-cannot-oppose-resale-his-used-licences[/url]

your "limited license" can be transferred to someone else, the period in which your license grants you access to software doesn't affect your ownership of the "temporary" license itself

[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]

literally nobody said you should be able to return the games, stop posting until you've caught up with the thread / developed an opinion worth hearing[/QUOTE]

How about you give me a quote from the actual legal source and not some interpretation that's probably wrong

[RayvenQ]

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723997]"an author of software cannot oppose the resale..."

oh, an author? i didn't realize that Valve authored Hammerfight, the more you know[/QUOTE]

As i said, applying to valve, this would mean you're freely able to sell the steam client, since thats valves own software, but since it's free software anyway.

[NoPartyHats]

[QUOTE=parket;36723994]for all purposes a license is deemed unlimited until terminated[/QUOTE]
Unless initially declared limited

"Dude ok you've gotta give back my pokemon eventually"
"ok i should expect to have it forever then right?"

[parket]

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723957]Software is a collection of computer programs and related data that provides the instructions for telling a computer what to do and how to do it.

so is a .wav not telling my computer how to project the image on the screen?[/QUOTE]

heres a lesson, what a .wav file is is data, data needs to be given a context by software or otherwise to make it interpretable as information - your .wav file isn't telling your computer how to project an image on the screen because a) it's an audio file lmao and b) the software is doing the interpreting