Valve: "We don't have any plans to change after EU Court Ruling" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;36722650]I can't stand that argument, it's such a pathetic case when you try and apply it to any regular person who tries to sell software online for a living. It never makes it right, and it's still theft. As for Facepunch arguing that piracy is OK, not all of us think that.[/QUOTE] Just to clarify, I am not defending that position, I simply mentioned what people think and believe.

[QUOTE=parket;36724018]heres a lesson, what a .wav file is is data, data needs to be given a context by software or otherwise to make it interpretable as information - your .wav file isn't telling your computer how to project an image on the screen because a) it's an audio file lmao and b) the software is doing the interpreting[/QUOTE] sorry we'll say .mp4 how does that make you feel

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723957]Software is a collection of computer programs and related data that provides the instructions for telling a computer what to do and how to do it. so is a .wav not telling my computer how to project the image on the screen?[/QUOTE] with netflix you aren't paying for a license to the netflix software, you're paying for netflix to stream their private data to you via the netflix streaming app, by your logic youtube videos would all be under your ownership because their streaming service somehow grants you to their entire library of assets. there is a difference between client distributed assets and private data accessed through an application. i could write an application that connects to my server and downloads a .wav, you don't own that .wav simply because i used it in my application. the logo that was included in your installation of the application is included however

[QUOTE=geel9;36724012]How about you give me a quote from the actual legal source and not some interpretation that's probably wrong[/QUOTE] tl:dr: any license agreement (limited or unlimited, terminable or unterminable) which lasts an unlimited (read: not a time restricted rental) period of time can now be sold on to another person

[QUOTE=geel9;36724012]How about you give me a quote from the actual legal source and not some interpretation that's probably wrong[/QUOTE] i'm not going to sift through a massive EU ruling to prove to you that every news source that has reported on the ruling got it wrong. you do the work if you're so sure there's been a massive conspiracy to hide the true nature of the ruling.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724041]sorry we'll say .mp4 how does that make you feel[/QUOTE] read the post replace .wav with .mp4 and take away part a

[QUOTE=parket;36724058]tl:dr: any license agreement (limited or unlimited, terminable or unterminable) which lasts an unlimited (read: not a time restricted rental) period of time can now be sold on to another person[/QUOTE] here have the actual legal document (afaik) rather than his biased 'tldr' version. [url]http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf[/url]

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36722892]"Oh look, I have a game that I can trade in to steam! But what if I want to play it again sometime? Maybe I'll copy the game files over to another location, and then download a crack for it! That way I get the money/credit of giving the game back without actually losing the game!" Let's apply that to a TV bought from a shop. "I can trade my TV in. If I do trade it in there's no way for me to retain/regain it without spending more money."[/QUOTE] So let me get this straight: You are against second hand games in all shapes and forms and not just Steam? Well if so, I would give you points for at least not being hypocritical. It doesn't make the argument any more credible though. You have second hand music and film sales, why not games?

oh so if i just have raw data and make it an .mp4 i can make an image? the more you know

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36724068]i'm not going to sift through a massive EU ruling to prove to you that every news source that has reported on the ruling got it wrong. you do the work if you're so sure there's been a massive conspiracy to hide the true nature of the ruling.[/QUOTE] [url]http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf[/url] It's two pages I want that quote that says that a license that lasts for an [b]indefinite[/b] time is the same as a license that last for an [b]infinite[/b] time.

[QUOTE=Character;36724078]here have the actual legal document (afaik) rather than his biased 'tldr' version. [url]http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf[/url][/QUOTE] BIAS ALERT everyone look out he's quoting news sources!!

Read the actual fucking ruling and stop nitpicking around areas of the argument you're losing.

[QUOTE=geel9;36724094][url]http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf[/url] It's two pages I want that quote that says that a license that lasts for an [b]indefinite[/b] time is the same as a license that last for an [b]infinite[/b] time.[/QUOTE] i never said an infinite license is the same as an indefinite license, only that they're both licenses which grants you the right to transfer that license, indefinite or infinite, to another person

[QUOTE=Character;36724078]here have the actual legal document (afaik) rather than his biased 'tldr' version. [url]http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf[/url][/QUOTE] "Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy." read that and tell me it's not what I just said

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36724100]BIAS ALERT everyone look out he's quoting news sources!![/QUOTE] oh I wasn't aware right at the bottom of that PCGames article was a 'tldr' version do you understand what 'quoting' is?

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724107]Read the actual fucking ruling and stop nitpicking around areas of the argument you're losing.[/QUOTE] i'll make sure to avoid nitpicking in the future when you say something that actually proves a valid point

[B]Valve defends Steam sales techniques as helpful to IP expansion[/B] [url]http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-11-valve-defends-steam-sales-techniques-as-helpful-to-ip-expansion[/url] Seems like it's little relevant

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36724110]i never said an infinite license is the same as an indefinite license, only that they're both licenses which grants you the right to transfer that license, indefinite or infinite, to another person[/QUOTE] Where does it say that it grants the "owner" of an INDEFINITE license the right to transfer it?

[img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/62a1123597d1a68c1379290f30e16e76.png[/img_thumb] oh look it doesn't have any mention of "indefinite" i wonder why

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36723830]sorry i'm just in one o' them arguing moods, no hard feelings mang[/QUOTE] We cool. Angry arguments tend to do that.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724134][img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/62a1123597d1a68c1379290f30e16e76.png[/img_thumb] oh look it doesn't have any mention of "indefinite" i wonder why[/QUOTE] where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?

[QUOTE=hexpunK;36724147]We cool. Angry arguments tend to do that.[/QUOTE] brofist [img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/satisfaction-production/s3_images/494142/bunp_inline.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724134][img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/62a1123597d1a68c1379290f30e16e76.png[/img_thumb] oh look it doesn't have any mention of "indefinite" i wonder why[/QUOTE] where does it say in the steam ToS that the license is indefinite is what I want to know!

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36724156]where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?[/QUOTE] I dunno you tell me seeing as that's you and paraket's fucking argument.

[QUOTE=parket;36724116]"Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy." read that and tell me it's not what I just said[/QUOTE] it's not what you just said. you stated that it said " a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period" is the same as " a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an indefinite period" which is entirely false because the words are entirely different, and the document doesn't even hint at the fact that they apply to both.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36724156]where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?[/QUOTE] Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an [b]unlimited period[/b], that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy.

[QUOTE=Character;36723506]god damn I'm so sick and tired of you going 'lol' and 'lmao' as if it adds to your argument at all, it makes you look like an entitled piece of shit.[/QUOTE]Wow, get frustrated when you're wrong much? You obviously don't know anything about legal contracts or anything related to software licensing, why are you here arguing over it? Take a law or business class, seriously. A high school class would explain much of the legal workings needed to understand this ruling.

inb4 Valve gets pissed and closes everyones steam accounts there would be nothing we could do about it

[QUOTE=parket;36724163]where does it say in the steam ToS that the license is indefinite is what I want to know![/QUOTE] It says limited and terminable, you actually are dumb this argument is basically over because Kopimi is the only one capable of forming a decent argument against this.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36724156]where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?[/QUOTE] "a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period"