Valve: "We don't have any plans to change after EU Court Ruling" - Polidicks

The EU ruling states it's now legal to sell software but says nothing about companies having to provide users with means to do so.

[QUOTE=Ybbats;36724176]Wow, get frustrated when you're wrong much? You obviously don't know anything about legal contracts or anything related to software licensing, why are you here arguing over it? Take a law or business class, seriously. A high school class would explain much of the legal workings needed to understand this ruling.[/QUOTE] congratulations responding to the three page old comment I made to get his attention as he was ignoring me entirely.

[QUOTE=latin_geek;36724192]The EU ruling states it's now legal to sell software but says nothing about companies having to provide users with means to do so.[/QUOTE] fucking this fucking winner of the thread case closed

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36724156]where does it say specifically that the ruling applies only to infinite licenses?[/QUOTE] it doesn't, they're interpreting steam having the right to terminate the license as somehow making the license indefinite, which by definition it does - problem is the ULA which Oracle provides this ruling was based off is exactly the same as the "indefinite" license steam gives and it's only used as a term because it's within the terms of the case.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724168]I dunno you tell me seeing as that's you and paraket's fucking argument.[/QUOTE] um no.. our point is that whether or not the license is infinite or indefinite, the EU ruling still gives you the right to sell it, unless the EU ruling specifically says "this only applies to infinite licenses."

[QUOTE=parket;36724239]it doesn't, they're interpreting steam having the right to terminate the license as somehow making the license indefinite, which by definition it does - problem is the ULA which Oracle provides this ruling was based off is exactly the same as the "indefinite" license steam gives and it's only used as a term because it's within the terms of the case.[/QUOTE] "Just because the law didn't say something doesn't mean it didn't say it" [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;36724248]um no.. our point is that whether or not the license is infinite or indefinite, the EU ruling still gives you the right to sell it, unless the EU ruling specifically says "this only applies to infinite licenses."[/QUOTE] Did you not read the part where it said "unlimited period?"

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724183]It says limited and terminable, you actually are dumb this argument is basically over because Kopimi is the only one capable of forming a decent argument against this.[/QUOTE] well no i think i'm the only one who actually read up on the case at all and you're all tripping behind by using your own definition of words instead of their proper legal counterparts rofl

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36724248]um no.. our point is that whether or not the license is infinite or indefinite, the EU ruling still gives you the right to sell it, unless the EU ruling specifically says "this only applies to infinite licenses."[/QUOTE] maybe you haven't made the connection yet but in this context "Unlimited" and "Infinite" mean the same thing. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=parket;36724265]well no i think i'm the only one who actually read up on the case at all and you're all tripping behind by using your own definition of words instead of their proper legal counterparts rofl[/QUOTE] you're saying rofl and kiting around a proper argument by using personal attacks and reversing our arguments you are the single worst debater i've ever met

I can't believe that the majority of post in this thread is some guy who's too upset that he can't get steam games for cheaper than they already are. Couldn't you imagine all of the money companies would lose if people just bought a huge amount of their game during a sale and then sold them in some black market way for silly hats?

[QUOTE=latin_geek;36724192]The EU ruling states it's now legal to sell software but says nothing about companies having to provide users with means to do so.[/QUOTE] well they'll need to or next time they ban someone for selling their account they're gonna be in deep poop [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724272]you're saying rofl and kiting around a proper argument by using personal attacks and reversing our arguments you are the single worst debater i've ever met[/QUOTE] it's not my fault you literally can't comprehend what is happening

[QUOTE=parket;36724289]well they'll need to or next time they ban someone for selling their account they're gonna be in deep poop[/QUOTE] no they dont regardless of what you say valve is immune to this and they wont get harassed for it gg you lose [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=parket;36724289]well they'll need to or next time they ban someone for selling their account they're gonna be in deep poop [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] it's not my fault you literally can't comprehend what is happening[/QUOTE] "it's not my fault I don't have a proper argument so I need to attack you to keep any sort of footing!"

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724306]no they dont regardless of what you say valve is immune to this and they wont get harassed for it gg you lose [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] "it's not my fault I don't have a proper argument so I need to attack you to keep any sort of footing!"[/QUOTE] i've gave my argument, when you're out of high school and actually educated on the topic at hand like myself - when maybe you'll understand the terminology being used, hit me up!

[QUOTE=parket;36724346]i've gave my argument, when you're out of high school and actually educated on the topic at hand like myself - when maybe you'll understand the terminology being used, hit me up![/QUOTE] For such an expert in legal matters, you're not a very good debater.

[QUOTE=parket;36724346]i've gave my argument, when you're out of high school and actually educated on the topic at hand like myself - when maybe you'll understand the terminology being used, hit me up![/QUOTE] and you still don't get it.

"My argument is broken and a reversal of yours, but now that you've exposed me I'm going to leave you with one final insult and then run for the hills before my reputation is ruined!"

there's not much to debate about when I post the full legal citation and you don't understand it unfortunately :(

[QUOTE=parket;36724401]there's not much to debate about when I post the full legal citation and you don't understand it unfortunately :([/QUOTE] there's not much to debate about when I post the full legal citation and you don't understand it unfortunately :(

You couldn't understand that Steam is a rental service at heart, and because of that you lost brutally.

[QUOTE=Fetret;36724084]So let me get this straight: You are against second hand games in all shapes and forms and not just Steam? Well if so, I would give you points for at least not being hypocritical. It doesn't make the argument any more credible though. You have second hand music and film sales, why not games?[/QUOTE] You don't have [I]digital [/I]second hand films or music. I don't oppose second hand games, music or films when the object in qustion is a disc, but it is absurd to argue the same should be true for digital products for any reason beyond consistency. If there was a way to ensure that the person who trades the game in didn't have the game backed up (like how you know the trader doesn't have a cloned copy of a TV), then I would support equal policy; there isn't so I don't. If this came to fruition, hell yeah I'd take advantage of it. But the fact that I will do it doesn't mean it should be done.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36724453]You don't have [I]digital [/I]second hand films or music. I don't oppose second hand games, music or films when the object in qustion is a disc, but it is absurd to argue the same should be true for digital products for any reason beyond consistency. T If there was a way to ensure that the person who trades the game in didn't have the game backed up (like how you know the trader Tdoesn't have a cloned copy of a TV), then I would support equal policy; there isn't so I don't. If this came to fruition, hell yeah I'd take advantage of it. But the fact that I will do it doesn't mean it should be done.[/QUOTE] Games on discs can be backed up as well, and that's generally much easier than copying a steam game.

"WHHAAA I CAN'T SELL SOMETHING I DON'T EVEN OWN, HOPE VALVE GETS SUED!!" This thread in a nutshell. It's like going to blockbuster and renting a film, then going and selling it somewhere else thinking it's your legal right because you "paid" for it.

[QUOTE=Legend286;36724727]"WHHAAA I CAN'T SELL SOMETHING I DON'T EVEN OWN, HOPE VALVE GETS SUED!!" This thread in a nutshell.[/QUOTE] you should see them sweet ass pictures he put on my FP profile because he lost, real pieces of art

[QUOTE=RadioJoNES;36724287]I can't believe that the majority of post in this thread is some guy who's too upset that he can't get steam games for cheaper than they already are. Couldn't you imagine all of the money companies would lose if people just bought a huge amount of their game during a sale and then sold them in some black market way for silly hats?[/QUOTE]Companies wouldn't actually lose money, they're not selling their games BACK to the developers, that would be a refund. You could argue they'd lose future sales, but again, you're making an assumption that these people would be buying the game from the developer if they weren't buying it used (which is not the logic people have in their minds to make them want to buy a used game in the first place) and if the sale is for less than regular market price, there's no way to know if they'd be buying it at all. And why is everybody so for standing up to protect the companies, which have their asses covered pretty well, and it's somehow stupid to be standing up to protect the consumers? Just the kind of fucked up, backward ass society we're being raised into.

[QUOTE=Ybbats;36724941]Companies wouldn't actually lose money, they're not selling their games BACK to the developers, that would be a refund. You could argue they'd lose future sales, but again, you're making an assumption that these people would be buying the game from the developer if they weren't buying it used (which is not the logic people have in their minds to make them want to buy a used game in the first place) and if the sale is for less than regular market price, there's no way to know if they'd be buying it at all. And why is everybody so for standing up to protect the companies, which have their asses covered pretty well, and it's somehow stupid to be standing up to protect the consumers? Just the kind of fucked up, backward ass society we're being raised into.[/QUOTE] The whole point of used games is that it's cheaper. People would buy it new if they couldn't buy it used.

People don't seem to realize that you have literally 0 ownership of any of your games on Steam. When you buy a Steam game you're buying the right to play it, not ownership.

[QUOTE=mixshifter;36725014]People don't seem to realize that you have literally 0 ownership of any of your games on Steam. When you buy a Steam game you're buying the right to play it, not ownership.[/QUOTE] eeexactly

[QUOTE=Legend286;36724975]The whole point of used games is that it's cheaper. People would buy it new if they couldn't buy it used.[/QUOTE]Or they don't want to buy it at the price the developer is asking for... at ALL? So EVERY used sale automatically irrefutably equates to one lost sale for the publishers? That is so publisher logic. [editline]11th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=No Party Hats;36725034]eeexactly[/QUOTE] Wow, remember my first post? LEARN WHAT LICENSES ARE. ffs. You're making arguments against made up points nobody ever made in this thread. Is this how you were trained to argue?

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;36724748]you should see them sweet ass pictures he put on my FP profile because he lost, real pieces of art[/QUOTE] :v: [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("" - Ninja101))[/highlight] [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Goatse" - Ninja101))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Ybbats;36725038]Or they don't want to buy it at the price the developer is asking for... at ALL? So EVERY used sale automatically irrefutably equates to one lost sale for the publishers? That is so publisher logic.[/QUOTE] Of course every used sale equals one lost sale for the publisher, they don't see a cent of a used purchase. People buy used games because they're cheaper than new games, they don't care when they do this that the publisher isn't making money, hell a lot of people don't even realize that.

[QUOTE=parket;36722112]i hope they do its bullshit you cant resell your own steam games[/QUOTE] Have your boxes. PS. Your a idiot. By the way, You dont resell your own games period on steam. You play them and beat an be like oh here, you can have it i beat it an that. I dont think that would be fair to the people who made them in that.