Valve: "We don't have any plans to change after EU Court Ruling" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;36723160]Please go read over the TOS of Steam. The reason you can't resell your game keys from Steam legally is because [I]you don't own them[/I]. Valve has no reason to change their policy when it states clearly in the TOS that all purchases on Steam are [I]rentals[/I], making your Steam account and anything bought on it Valve's property, so in short how can you resell something which you do not own. The answer is you can't so this ruling doesn't apply to Steam. As for the comment about "games withheld from sale on Steam", that's really all down to the developer. I know in the UK Game paid off a lot of publishers to get games locked out from being bought directly on Steam by having them only stocked physically in their stores, the game still uses Steam to be installed and ran but you couldn't buy it which is bullshit greed talking.[/QUOTE] ToS can't override the law. Just because Steam suddenly calls it a [I]rental[/I], doesn't mean the EU can't tell Valve to stop being a smartass or pay the fine.

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;36725134]Of course every used sale equals one lost sale for the publisher, they don't see a cent of a used purchase. People buy used games because they're cheaper than new games, they don't care when they do this that the publisher isn't making money, hell a lot of people don't even realize that.[/QUOTE] The publishers job is to use their money to PUBLISH NEW GAMES. Developers don't just make one game, sell it and make money off of it for the rest of their lives, nor publishers. The industry has never worked that way in the past, save few exceptions, why should it start working this way now?

[QUOTE=Ybbats;36725257]The publishers job is to use their money to PUBLISH NEW GAMES. Developers don't just make one game, sell it and make money off of it for the rest of their lives, nor publishers. The industry has never worked that way in the past, save few exceptions, why should it start working this way now?[/QUOTE] Except that sales later on still account for a fair portion of their profit. Why should they be cheated out of money just because a game isn't brand new? It's still their money.

If I sell my used game to someone else, why should I pay some company that is not helping me at ALL in the transaction? If anyone SHOULD get a cut of my money, it's craigslist. Or ebay. Or however the game is ACTUALLY being resold. The only reason? That company wants free money, and has the double-speaking marketing assholes with the balls to make stupid bullshit arguments like this.

can't imagine if reselling steam games was permitted, it'd take off. Like, I'm probably not gonna buy a game from someone, possibly dodgy on the internet over Valve, so the benefit of buying first hand from steam would be a more secure, more trustworthy purchase if anything, if they were forced to allow reselling, it might make them reduce newly released title prices on steam, because they are always fucking outrageous for example, skyrim STILL being sold at 34 quid on steam tell me, why is it cheaper to buy off amazon on release, a service which has a physical box and has to ship it to me, than steam which has to host servers.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;36725517]can't imagine if reselling steam games was permitted, it'd take off. Like, I'm probably not gonna buy a game from someone, possibly dodgy on the internet over Valve, so the benefit of buying first hand from steam would be a more secure, more trustworthy purchase if anything, if they were forced to allow reselling, it might make them reduce newly released title prices on steam, because they are always fucking outrageous for example, skyrim STILL being sold at 34 quid on steam tell me, why is it cheaper to buy off amazon on release, a service which has a physical box and has to ship it to me, than steam which has to host servers.[/QUOTE] Because Amazon sets the price itself, whereas publishers set it for Steam. I've lost count of the times I've saved £10 on brand new games because I decided against Steam. When will publishers understand that PC games should NOT exceed £30.

[QUOTE=Legend286;36725608]Because Amazon sets the price itself, whereas publishers set it for Steam. I've lost count of the times I've saved £10 on brand new games because I decided against Steam. When will publishers understand that PC games should NOT exceed £30.[/QUOTE] Fucking publishers. maybe if there was a second hand service, they'd be forced to drop prices on steam when people just end up buying second hand over paying the outrageous prices they demand.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;36725633]Fucking publishers. maybe if there was a second hand service, they'd be forced to drop prices on steam when people just end up buying second hand over paying the outrageous prices they demand.[/QUOTE] Quite the opposite actually, less people would be buying it new which would mean they would raise the prices even more.

Most of the games I buy from Steam are fairly priced anyway so I don't see a problem with this - I agree to their terms of service and I don't mind not being able to trade my licenses because I feel I stand to benefit from this

I do kind of wish that you could choose to transfer a game to another Steam account as a gift after you bought it. I mean, you can give your friends a game disc to borrow in real life, why not allow it on the PC? Maybe even just give it to them for 2 or 3 days as a limit just so they can try it and see if they like it. Obviously reselling them is crap for business but a feature like this would be nice. I would also like to be able to have a separate Steam Account from my brothers and transfer my games to the new account, but now I cannot do it.

-snip

[QUOTE=acds;36725247]ToS can't override the law. Just because Steam suddenly calls it a [I]rental[/I], doesn't mean the EU can't tell Valve to stop being a smartass or pay the fine.[/QUOTE] Good thing the law doesn't mandate you can't rent software, kid.

I think its more of a conundrum, because most games that require a cd and a cd key back in the day you could resell right, because you would give your friend the cd and the key, thus rendering that you could not play anymore. (Day before nocd * cdkeys online). Which would make the offer fair and logical (in my mind). Now a days since its all online how do you get past this since you do not have a cd but you have the key? Plus if i resold say a game like men of war that requires me to make an account and binds the cd key not only to steam but to the games multiplayer that uses gamespy how would i be able to hand that over in a nice and easy way? Also if that didn't happen i really didn't sell the game to them i just jipt them. On the flip side it would be nice to resell but i can't honestly see how it would work out perfectly

[QUOTE=krakadict;36722128]won't the EU just make them stop selling in EU which 50-70% of their money comes from? why the dumbs? EU could even stop them because they're not following it's laws such a one way system "we don't like your law but we'll still sell games in the eu so fuck you" if a EU based company like steam was breaking a law like this in america heads will roll.[/QUOTE] Nah, they'll possible just brutally fine them. [QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36727760]Good thing the law doesn't mandate you can't rent software, kid.[/QUOTE] The issue is, that the way that a different ruling was worded, was that the way you buy games in Europe you don't actually rent them but buy them - since an unlimited time, non returnable rent doesn't really work under EU, or member nation legislations. [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36725095]-removed- :v:[/QUOTE] Under american rental terms maybe. Not under European ones. Rental is pretty strictly defined.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;36728808]The issue is, that the way that a different ruling was worded, was that the way you buy games in Europe you don't actually rent them but buy them - [B]since an unlimited time, non returnable rent doesn't really work under EU, or member nation legislations.[/B][/QUOTE] Well... no. Council Directive 92/100/EEC doesn't define rental as requiring the thing being rented ever be returned, only that it be offered for a limited amount of time. Where are you getting it from that the ability to return the thing being rented is a requisite of a rental? And how does a "limited, terminable" Steam license imply a permanent one?

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;36726548]I do kind of wish that you could choose to transfer a game to another Steam account as a gift after you bought it. I mean, you can give your friends a game disc to borrow in real life, why not allow it on the PC? Maybe even just give it to them for 2 or 3 days as a limit just so they can try it and see if they like it. Obviously reselling them is crap for business but a feature like this would be nice. I would also like to be able to have a separate Steam Account from my brothers and transfer my games to the new account, but now I cannot do it.[/QUOTE] I think reselling them would be fine if done right, the price you buy it at will the set price you sell it at. For example if you bought GTA4 75% off, you can only sell it for 75% and when you sell it, 10% of the money goes to Valve and 40% goes to the developer(In this case Rockstar.) If it was a Valve game then 50% would go to them. Publisher(Valve) and Developer(Rockstar) and the consumer all win.

OK Valve, that's fine. But can you at least let us DELETE games from our library altogether? I bought Burnout Paradise once figuring it was a good idea and I want that shit gone from my life for good. Thanks Valve, really appreciate it.

Look at all these things you get using steam, you should understand that no reselling is a fair trade off - Amazing prices for the games, Even fresh released games can come out with sales same day sometimes or the day after. After a bit you look at 15% to 25% and later when the game is a bit older you look at upto 75% off the game. Those sales alone who cares about reselling it. - Pre-order and instant release access. Most games allow you to preload now so at midnight of game release you can play it. No going to the store and waiting in a midnight wait line or getting it in the morning then installing it. No waiting for it in the mail. Preload it wait for release day and play. Perfect IMO. - Amazing service and rounded program. Steam is an amazing well rounded and well I will admit getting slightly more and more bloated with community features but hell everyone likes it down to the end - Valve/Steam stand for the gamer. The fact you can download the game as many times as you want onto your computer without having to call for more download rights to a game. The fact download speeds are for the most part amazing for gaming. I reinstalled HL2 just today to play with my girlfriend on synergy. Took less then 10 minutes for me and her and then less then 5 for synergy and off we were in HL2. Amazing easy store and a constant expanding game store base. Honestly these four things are trade offs for not reselling games and tbh, I see myself constantly scrolling down my list of games then seeing a game i dont have installed anymore and go "Hey, i feel like playing that again." Alot of us do. This whole resell on steam thing got bigger mainly for two things, Steam has enough games that people are buying and then completing or getting bored with and want to sell them back. Or [b]Little ones who mommy and daddy won't give them more money for games so they want to resell there other games to buy another game[/b]

[QUOTE=redhaven;36722348]I don't think people are THAT stupid to resell all their games. Would you sell your Half-Life or TF2 or any of those good games? Don't think so. The goal now here, the way I see it, is to promote longevity, and value. Make the player hold on to that game with long-ass replayability, and because that game is fucking awesome. With the game becomes obsolete, it's now dirt cheap.[/QUOTE] I dont even play any of my steam games anymore since they're all boring, outdated and have simple gameplay mechanics except for a select few that don't include any of valves recent titles.

[QUOTE=parket;36722112]i hope they do its bullshit you cant resell your own steam games[/QUOTE] Why? It's no different from a book. You can just play em through, have your fun, and then just sell em back? That would completely fuck any possibility to profit off of games.

I wonder if steam will ever introduce a renting games feature.

[QUOTE=CubeManv2;36729838]Look at all these things you get using steam, you should understand that no reselling is a fair trade off - Amazing prices for the games, Even fresh released games can come out with sales same day sometimes or the day after. After a bit you look at 15% to 25% and later when the game is a bit older you look at upto 75% off the game. Those sales alone who cares about reselling it. - Pre-order and instant release access. Most games allow you to preload now so at midnight of game release you can play it. No going to the store and waiting in a midnight wait line or getting it in the morning then installing it. No waiting for it in the mail. Preload it wait for release day and play. Perfect IMO. - Amazing service and rounded program. Steam is an amazing well rounded and well I will admit getting slightly more and more bloated with community features but hell everyone likes it down to the end - Valve/Steam stand for the gamer. The fact you can download the game as many times as you want onto your computer without having to call for more download rights to a game. The fact download speeds are for the most part amazing for gaming. I reinstalled HL2 just today to play with my girlfriend on synergy. Took less then 10 minutes for me and her and then less then 5 for synergy and off we were in HL2. Amazing easy store and a constant expanding game store base. Honestly these four things are trade offs for not reselling games and tbh, I see myself constantly scrolling down my list of games then seeing a game i dont have installed anymore and go "Hey, i feel like playing that again." Alot of us do. This whole resell on steam thing got bigger mainly for two things, Steam has enough games that people are buying and then completing or getting bored with and want to sell them back. Or [b]Little ones who mommy and daddy won't give them more money for games so they want to resell there other games to buy another game[/b][/QUOTE] the point is not to justify it as a trade-off, the point is to have a giant corporation follow the law regardless of your opinion of their services and PR campaigns

Buying or selling second hand copy of a digitally distributed software is redundant if you ask me. [editline]12th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zacca;36730559]I wonder if steam will ever introduce a renting games feature.[/QUOTE] Dream on. No game company or publisher will ever allow game rental these days.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36730670]the point is not to justify it as a trade-off, the point is to have a giant corporation follow the law regardless of your opinion of their services and PR campaigns[/QUOTE] But laws should be different for digitally distributed games!

[QUOTE=wraithcat;36728808] Under american rental terms maybe. Not under European ones. Rental is pretty strictly defined.[/QUOTE] iirc Steam is an American company which is to be governed by US law. They dont give two shits about what the EU's definition of rental is.

[QUOTE=areolop;36731399]iirc Steam is an American company which is to be governed by US law. They dont give two shits about what the EU's definition of rental is.[/QUOTE] they do when they're selling inside the EU?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36731535]they do when they're selling inside the EU?[/QUOTE] If the purchase is done through US servers then if anything it's that grey zone of whos laws are followed. Then after purchased believe it throws you to EU download servers if there are even any.

Who knows, if they get too much pressure, Steam might get pulled out of the region.

[QUOTE=Mr. Chop;36731830]Who knows, if they get too much pressure, Steam might get pulled out of the region.[/QUOTE] TF2 HAT ECONOMY CRASHES

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