Garry writes for The Guardian: Why my videogame chooses your character’s race and gender for you
277 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50125905]So you're outright saying "it's never a good design choice to change -this- design methodology"?
Yeah we will have to agree to disagree because you don't want to see change.[/QUOTE]
You're talking like every design choice is valid and good. That clearly isn't the case. Some things are just a bad idea.
In my opinion, forcing a player to be represented by an avatar that looks nothing like the way they want to be represented in a game that centers around social interaction between you, as an individual behind the screen, and others is a bad choice, yes.
[editline]13th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50125913]But you're saying everyones wrong and this isn't a good way to do this. I don't get how it's interesting if you think it's wrong[/QUOTE]
I'm presenting arguments for why I think it's a bad choice. I really don't get why that's a problem.
Help, I'm having an identity crisis because I can't feel like I identify with my character while I cave a naked asian man's skull in with a rock on a beach for the giant stack of wood, enough to build a house, that he's carrying.
i feel that part of the reason why player choice in character creation is because it upsets a lot of people with really stupid reasons and it is funny to see them whine about it
:dogchill:
there are legitimate arguments against it but there are also a lot of stupid ones, those are the funny ones to me
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50125892]The only compelling gameplay-related argument I have heard come out of the Rust subforum ever since the first mention of female models (and how you won't get to choose when it's eventually added--and here we are now) is that hitboxes on smaller characters actually provide a non-trivial advantage, so some Steam IDs will have a small but objective advantage over other players. And this is a balance issue that the devs can work through when it's time, so no biggie.[/QUOTE]
Sure the size differences are an interesting and more direct implication, but for me the idea of automatically assigned race and gender is very interesting as an indirect implication.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50125928][t]http://i.imgur.com/o0raSAw.png[/t]
:zing:[/QUOTE]
Jesus, it's a fucking video game, get over it. I am trans, do you see me whining about playing as a different gender, or race? No. I don't fucking care about the gender or race.
Why are there trans that act like this?
[QUOTE=Robotboy655;50125768]I can confirm there was a lot of great responses to that update on the support website.
I am actually curious now to see what player model I got in Rust.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://i.imgur.com/LyVrZd7.png]Thanks Garry![/url]
[QUOTE=FPtje;50125795]Even better, it pushes the SJWs to [url=https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/719546734112829440]hate on it[/url] (read the thread). Garry handles it like a champ too.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/HJfulsi.png[/img]
I think Garry actually has a really good point there honestly. I don't play Rust simply because I don't play multiplayer only games but I lean towards more character customization rather than less. But I'm still curious how removing this choice will go, especially considering that this design decision puts most players in the same situation female, transgender, or non-white gamers are forced into in the vast majority of games.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50125785]They should make you randomly spawn with a disease too! That would make even more variables that you wouldn't get to pick!
Maybe make some players severely autistic and unable to learn complicated recipes.
I'm being sarcastic, of course. My point is that adding more uncontrolled variables isn't an argument in itself.[/QUOTE]
Fuck sarcasm, ship that idea. It'd be good fun watching a bunch of people acclimatise with approximations of various disabilities.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50125939]Help, I'm having an identity crisis because I can't feel like I identify with my character while I cave a naked asian man's skull in with a rock on a beach for the giant stack of wood, enough to build a house, that he's carrying.[/QUOTE]
In all seriousness though, does [b]anyone[/b] actually [i]identify[/i] with their character in this kind of games?
[QUOTE=Alice3173;50125995][img]http://i.imgur.com/HJfulsi.png[/img]
[/QUOTE]
Because the whole of Earth should just stop revolving, someone has issues.
Shit the entitlement of some people pisses me off to no end. "This doesn't help me solve my issues" - yeah it doesn't, it doesn't have to. It doesn't have such a goal, no one said it does, shut up ffs.
[QUOTE=Thlis;50125927]This is just fucking weird.
It's like you guys are all proclaiming that this is the perfect answer to sexism and racism, and then boasting about incorporating sexism and racism.[/QUOTE]
it isn't real sexism and racism, tho.
I got a dark-ish skin chick with small boobs.
Could be worse.
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;50126036]I got a dark-ish skin chick with small boobs.
Could be worse.[/QUOTE]
How so?
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;50125894]I disagree with this notion. Being upset because your avatar doesn't represent you does not make you racist or misogynist.
There's nothing wrong with not wanting to be who you don't want to be.[/QUOTE]
I think it's safe to say that people who make an exact representation of themselves in a game are a minority. I'm not saying anyone who doesn't like this is a bigot but given the surprising amount of actual bigots in popular online games it's fair to say that they probably make up a large amount of the people who are complaining.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;50125995][img]http://i.imgur.com/HJfulsi.png[/img]
I think Garry actually has a really good point there honestly. I don't play Rust simply because I don't play multiplayer only games but I lean towards more character customization rather than less. But I'm still curious how removing this choice will go, especially considering that this design decision puts most players in the same situation female, transgender, or non-white gamers are forced into in the vast majority of games.[/QUOTE]
This makes me so fucking mad.
So apparently being Trans means I can't play as the opposite sex, going by their logic.
What a bunch of fucking idiots.
[QUOTE=Britain;50126048]How so?[/QUOTE]
he could be a white dude
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50125999]Fuck sarcasm, ship that idea. It'd be good fun watching a bunch of people acclimatise with approximations of various disabilities.[/QUOTE]
I was going to make a harsh joke about Rust kiddies identifying with their characters if they're assigned the "severely autistic" trait, but then I remembered that Rust kids aren't autistic, just 12, and that's punishment enough.
[QUOTE=gudman;50126006]In all seriousness though, does [b]anyone[/b] actually [i]identify[/i] with their character in this kind of games?[/QUOTE]
I've seen several people come into the Rust forum with [I]incredibly strong[/I] feelings regarding tightly identifying with their character in any and every video game possible (which leads them to post entitled threads about demanding character customization), and it's a mindset I just don't understand. It's fascinating, in a way.
Could it be that millenials/post-millenials are growing up around digital avatars so early and so long that digital representations have become a literal integration of their sense of identity? This goes beyond simply wanting character customization, to expecting it to be there and [I]physically feeling uncomfortable[/I] when denied the ability to have a character of the appropriate gender.
As much as I mock the Rust kids, they do some interesting things sometimes and aren't all bad.
[QUOTE=gudman;50126006]Because the whole of Earth should just stop revolving, someone has issues.
Shit the entitlement of some people pisses me off to no end. "This doesn't help me solve my issues" - yeah it doesn't, it doesn't have to. It doesn't have such a goal, no one said it does, shut up ffs.[/QUOTE]
This is the other interesting side effect of this. People with insecurity and people with entitlement issues (sometimes both) have crawled out of the woodwork every time Rust's you-get-no-options character variation system (it's not really customization if the only input is your Steam ID) has made Rust devblog/gaming press news.
I should have been keeping a tally of the number of people who've threatened to quit/uninstall/refund Rust (after thousands of hours) because they can't be their gender/skintone of choice.
[URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1457253"]This same kind of response happened (to a lesser extent) with skin tone customization.[/URL] White kids came to the Rust forum complaining about the skintone situation not because they were uncomfortable with their skin colour, but [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1455833"]because they had suffered racial discrimination and abuse from other players for their skin tone.[/URL] Fortunately, this is Rust so you can just murder racists all day long in-game and it's not a crime.
[QUOTE=Britain;50126048]How so?[/QUOTE]
I'm male but frankly she's not unpleasant to look at so I don't mind it so much.
[URL="http://i.imgur.com/jgVFM8a.png"]NSFW[/URL]
when the hell is hair going to be randomly generated, everybody being bald is probably the most unnerving part about the whole thing
[editline]13th April 2016[/editline]
maybe that can be the one bit of customization, your hairstyle but not the color
i haven't played rust but i'm sure the technology level in rust isn't far enough to allow for transgender people, except for chopping your dick off or something
and with technology level i mean not the software but the in game lore
[QUOTE=sgman91;50125929]You're talking like every design choice is valid and good. That clearly isn't the case. Some things are just a bad idea.
In my opinion, forcing a player to be represented by an avatar that looks nothing like the way they want to be represented in a game that centers around social interaction between you, as an individual behind the screen, and others is a bad choice, yes.
[editline]13th April 2016[/editline]
I'm presenting arguments for why I think it's a bad choice. I really don't get why that's a problem.[/QUOTE]
It's not a bad design choice when taken in context with the design goals.
You're free to say you don't like it but there's valid reasons for its implementation and it's design goal.
No one on your side of the argument is bothered by someone not being represented in other games with so called forced characterizations. I don't see how this design goal affects gameplay or why it should affect your own connection to a character.
[QUOTE=Xonax;50126057]This makes me so fucking mad.
So apparently being Trans means I can't play as the opposite sex, going by their logic.
What a bunch of fucking idiots.[/QUOTE]
Personally I strongly prefer to play a character that at least coincides with my gender but it's never the deciding factor to me playing a game or not. (Unless I'm deciding between two otherwise very similar games at least.) But it's definitely not something worth getting this absurdly worked up about either. Especially when it's something fairly unique which has some interesting consequences too.
Watch garry tie the number of respawns you have in your bed to how many babies you have made / people of the opposite gender that you have had sex with.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;50126117]Watch garry tie the number of respawns you have in your bed to how many babies you have made / people of the opposite gender that you have had sex with.[/QUOTE]
i could be a warlord with real concubines, garry do this please
[URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1514337"]I just don't understand the mindset going into threads like these.[/URL] (this is NOT an invitation to shitpost in the Rust subforum, don't tap on the glass)
[QUOTE=~Seraphina~;50121041]Is it possible to get a refund for this? It's quite immersion breaking for me to play as a guy. Especially on RP servers. =P
Now that it's technically possible, I'd like to play my real gender, please.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=jumonjii;50121059]Steam refund policy would apply.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=~Seraphina~;50121128]Yes, but I bought rust a long time ago not knowing they had removed female player models. I was told they would be reinstated after remodelling, so I waited. Then I was told it would be random, so I figured there would be no point in petitioning yet, as there would be a 50% chance the problem would correct itself on its own. It did not, so I petitioned and was basically told to suck it. Let's just say the steam 2-day refund policy passed a looong time ago, before anyone knew this would become an issue. =P[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=starbuck1771;50122508]I guess Facepunch is in NC. If I were you I would sue the hell out of them Gorewrath for causing you intentional mental abuse. Whatever idiot implemented this gender system should be fired for complete ignorance.
[editline]12th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=~Seraphina~;50121128]Yes, but I bought rust a long time ago not knowing they had removed female player models. I was told they would be reinstated after remodelling, so I waited. Then I was told it would be random, so I figured there would be no point in petitioning yet, as there would be a 50% chance the problem would correct itself on its own. It did not, so I petitioned and was basically told to suck it. Let's just say the steam 2-day refund policy passed a looong time ago, before anyone knew this would become an issue. =P[/QUOTE]
which tells you Facepunch is ran by frauds, trolls , and assholes.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("rude/awful" - postal))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
:bullshit:
And, in a more serious tone, there's also this post by that poster:
[QUOTE=~Seraphina~;50121110]It does affect my ability to socialize, because I struggle with anxiety, and being able to portray my personality despite my anxiety depends on my ability to 'connect' with my online character, and immerse myself with it. This is difficult for me to do, if I am unable to relate my character to myself.[/QUOTE]
I'm not mocking this poster when I say that this is a really interesting situation. I don't think anyone really understands how digital avatars are shaping us, but high school kids today have had Miis and Xbox 360 avatars and shit to represent them since they were still developing core traits of their adult personalities. Someone could base a successful doctorate thesis on this, I think.
I like the idea. You're given a character and you make the best out of them. It's like playing Pokemon with a randomizer
I think that its amazing that we as a species have gotten so comfortable (thanks to trade, economy, security, ect) that we can sit down in front of our computers and complain about video games randomly assigning gender, genital size, and skin color.
[QUOTE=Digivee;50126237]I think that its amazing that we as a species have gotten so comfortable (thanks to trade, economy, security, ect) that we can sit down in front of our computers and complain about video games randomly assigning gender, genital size, and skin color.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you can say "as a species" when there's still a couple billion people that are far from having that kind of security or comfort.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50126170]I'm not mocking this poster when I say that this is a really interesting situation. I don't think anyone really understands how digital avatars are shaping us, but high school kids today have had Miis and Xbox 360 avatars and shit to represent them since they were still developing core traits of their adult personalities. Someone could base a successful doctorate thesis on this, I think.[/QUOTE]
what does it say about those of us who do our best to break character creation and create monstrosities
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