CNN to host town hall debate Monday with Graham, Cassidy, Sanders and Klobuchar
19 replies, posted
[img]http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170921123113-restricted-092117-lindsey-graham-bill-cassidy-amy-klobuchar-bernie-sanders-health-care-t1-large-169.jpg[/img]
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(CNN)CNN will host a town hall with Republican Sens. Lindsey Graham and Bill Cassidy, who will be debating health care with Sens. Bernie Sanders and Amy Klobuchar on Monday, September 25 at 9 p.m. ET.
CNN anchor Jake Tapper and chief political correspondent Dana Bash will moderate the 90-minute live event from Washington.
Graham and Cassidy are the namesake sponsors of a last-ditch effort to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act ahead of an end-of-the-month deadline, while Sanders introduced a new "Medicare for all" health care bill with a third of the Senate Democratic caucus by his side.
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[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/21/politics/graham-cassidy-town-hall-sanders-kobuchar/index.html"]CNN[/URL]
A lot of people are pissed right now. Sanders bill is literally the boogyman for conservatives and ACA is going to be voted to repeal or not, and this is going to rally up GOP to vote for this.
Off-topic an fact has came up recently about Sanders, he has appeared in RT America, and may know Manafort's Friend Ted Devine.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52705287]A lot of people are pissed right now. Sanders bill is literally the boogyman for conservatives and ACA is going to be voted to repeal or not, and this is going to rally up GOP to vote for this.
[B]Off-topic an fact has came up recently about Sanders, he has appeared in RT America, and may know Manafort's Friend Ted Devine.[/B][/QUOTE]
lol are you really buying into the "sanders is a russian agent sent to disrupt hillary" narrative
Good god, why does everyone look so awful on that picture?
I look forward to Sanders schooling the GOP on healthcare on live tv to a large audience.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;52705294]lol are you really buying into the "sanders is a russian agent sent to disrupt hillary" narrative[/QUOTE]
Sanders is a sleeper agent trained by the USSR for 70 years
oh can't wait for 2 hours of "but we don't technically remove the coverage guard rails" and all the piles of waffles that come thereafter
[QUOTE=joshuadim;52705344]I look forward to Sanders schooling the GOP on healthcare on live tv to a large audience.[/QUOTE]
Until one of the repubs calls him a dirty socialist and Fox declare SANDERS DESTROYED IN DEBATE
This'll just be a shitshow. Would've preferred Franken to Klobuchar as well, but I'll take what I can get. Hoping we see Franken or Klobuchar run so that maybe MN can break their long streak of god-awful losing presidential candidates.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52705582]words[/QUOTE]
:dogwow:
I'm not really sure what the point of all this was. Yes Russia does an awful lot of shady shit, but there's no reason to go all red scare about it.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52705582]I wouldn't even be surprised at this point if it turned out to be true.
And if you disagree, I'd like to remind you that the actual President of the United States and co. have (most likely) directly colluded with Russia to win a presidential election. This is the highest possible echelon of the West announcing to the world that literally nothing is too far-fetched.
What if Trump was just Russia testing out its new social engineering tactics? What if they've figured out that all it takes to subtly and covertly flip democratic elections was just using a big enough distraction to hide their tracks? In the election, that distraction was Hillary. Now - what if the distraction is Trump himself? It's no secret that that the majority of the country strongly disagrees or at leads holds Trump in an unfavorable light, right? Then surely, these sentiments will serve as the greatest distraction. While everyone is busy with the ongoing train-wreck that is the current Trump administration - Russia might have just been finding new potential "candidates" to "convert".
So naturally you ask why would Russia be going to such great lengths just to marginally effect the elections of other countries? What could they possibly stand to achieve? And you already know the answer to that question. Disrupting/strongly influencing a country that holds not only great political power but also great political sway, and a country that is quite literally Russia's biggest obstacle is a surefire way to ensure that Russia will get away with more and more as international repercussions start being less and less punishing, less frequent, and more tolerating of Russia's crimes and aggression.
Like, social engineering isn't even difficult. You simply run bots, erect fake news networks, bribe existing news networks if possible, bribe or strongly influence specific local positions of power and you're already two-thirds there. It's cost-efficient, the intended effect has the potential to become viral online - reaching immeasurable levels of influence over the populace, and has literally no downsides. When caught, simply deny everything. Nothing directly links you to these bots or fake news agencies. There's no way to prove otherwise because there's no evidence, just a bunch of trails that lead nowhere yet paint a very daunting big picture. It's the ultimate tactic in an age where proxy warfare and military strengths become less and less relevant and more and more costly.
Not even saying that Sanders is one of those Russia managed to "convert", but taking into account all the information we've observed these past few years, I find it difficult to be absolutely sure.
I would also like to remind you of another thing - Russia has been caught funding [i]opposing[/i] political parties in its own government, for no other reason other than to divide and conquer, literally. It is assumed that by sparking old Communist/Fascist political feuds in Russia, they only served to detract from the Ukrainian situation, the sanctions, and everything else that threatens the Russian government. Just make it all look like Russia is the moral liberator, and the West is simply afraid of seeing Russia succeed. That's the narrative they're pushing. Confuse the citizen with disinformation, make him believe that he's a victim of someone or something, and sow the seeds of mistrust. This is a war of information unlike anything we've seen before, because the method of execution is completely untraceable, legal and [i]has no stated end-goal in its premise.[/i] Propaganda used to be very simple. Us vs Them. We're the good guys, they're the bad guys. The premise was always clearly presented in the propaganda. But now it's not directed at your enemy, it is directed at your citizens, and it's not pushing a narrative favorable to Russia or unfavorable to the administration, because nobody would take it seriously. It's pushing a narrative that simply helps elect those who might be friendly towards Russia behind closed doors, and especially at the helm of UN Security Counsels. It takes advantage of social trends to their fullest potential to wreck as much division, heated debate and conflict within the target country, turning one against another.
If this all turns out to be somewhat true in the future (or present), I hope we will not fall for half-assed rhetorics and false information as easily as Russia thinks, and that we'll always double or even triple check sources of information we come across before believing whatever is presented.[/QUOTE]
How about when we see evidence of Sanders being a Russian goon, then we'll call him out on it. The mere possibility is not enough to convince me, lol
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52705789]I'm not really sure either, I just think we're not truly grasping the extent of what has happened in the 2017 election. The implications and precedents that Russia has set forth in their collusion with Trump. It [i]is[/i] the Red Scare, except it's not paranoia-induced rambling, but our actual reality.
The only thing that that comes close in terms of this red-scare-hypothetical is Russia sending green little men in transport container ships, disembarking unto US soil.
The Trump administration will be recorded in history as one of the worst yet, and after everything comes to light, it's going to be one of those things we only realize in hindsight, slightly similar to WW1, as no one called it a world war only until after it was over.
I guess I'm just rambling, but it's something that has been on my mind ever since Russia first used the same little green men I mentioned earlier. How they just appeared, with no warning or explanation. How they deliberately took off their insignia and patches to hide their allegiance. The act of hiding in plain view and almost making a mockery of international law as the entire world watches. To me, that signifies a deliberate and calculated change of strategy.[/QUOTE]
There's a problem with your theory. It doesn't fit Russia's M.O.
They've so far supported far right or fascist candidates in Europe and the United States. Sanders is a social democrat - his very politics are diametrically opposed to everything Putin's Russia stands for. Furthermore, he's a candidate who, if elected, would bring stability and prosperity to the United States - something that Russia wants to achieve the opposite of. Furthermore, Sanders has a long history of unimpeachable integrity in his political dealings. It's possible Sanders is a Russian goon in the same way it's possible that the earth is flat - nothing we know supports that idea in the slightest, and most of what we know outright contradicts it.
I don't know if 90 minutes will be enough for this topic.
Nothing of substance come from these debates. We need discussions with healthcare experts and CNN to report on actual policy facts and the health organizations denouncing the bill.
Dems have nothing to gain and more to lose. Repubicans could lie and spread misinformation in the debate and there wouldn't be enough time to spread the correct information since it's the week of the vote.
Just not worth it. Hopefully it goes well though
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52705789]I'm not really sure either, I just think we're not truly grasping the extent of what has happened in the 2017 election. The implications and precedents that Russia has set forth in their collusion with Trump. It [i]is[/i] the Red Scare, except it's not paranoia-induced rambling, but our actual reality.
The only thing that that comes close in terms of this red-scare-hypothetical is Russia sending green little men in transport container ships, disembarking unto US soil.
The Trump administration will be recorded in history as one of the worst yet, and after everything comes to light, it's going to be one of those things we only realize in hindsight, slightly similar to WW1, as no one called it a world war only until after it was over.
I guess I'm just rambling, but it's something that has been on my mind ever since Russia first used the same little green men I mentioned earlier. How they just appeared, with no warning or explanation. How they deliberately took off their insignia and patches to hide their allegiance. The act of hiding in plain view and almost making a mockery of international law as the entire world watches. To me, that signifies a deliberate and calculated change of strategy.[/QUOTE]
What if Hillary colluded with the Russians in order to further ruin our relationship with them, thus we both ramp up our military industrial complexes so we can sell more weapon to her Saudi backers?! :tinfoil:
This is roughly how far-fetched your ideas sound.
[QUOTE=archangel125;52705848]There's a problem with your theory. It doesn't fit Russia's M.O.
They've so far supported far right or fascist candidates in Europe and the United States. Sanders is a social democrat - his very politics are diametrically opposed to everything Putin's Russia stands for. Furthermore, he's a candidate who, if elected, would bring stability and prosperity to the United States - something that Russia wants to achieve the opposite of. Furthermore, Sanders has a long history of unimpeachable integrity in his political dealings. It's possible Sanders is a Russian goon in the same way it's possible that the earth is flat - nothing we know supports that idea in the slightest, and most of what we know outright contradicts it.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. If anything I bet the Russians would encourage the story of Sanders being a Russian plant sent to sabotage Clinton because it would discredit Sanders in the eyes of liberals, weakening one of the anti-establishment populist potential alternatives to Trump's (Kremlin-approved (tm)) anti-establishment populist white identitarianism and hate.
in light of recent events, dis gon be gooood.
Anyone see it? Bernie/Amy did really good job I thought. They got a lot of good points out against the Graham/Cassidy bill and for improving ACA, and Bernie I thought did just enough M4A/universal healthcare talk to give people a taste without derailing anything like some establishment Democrats were scared of.
Cassidy was pretty awful.
The bill seems to not have much air left anyways.
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