German Transgendered girl Alex, has been institutionalized.
301 replies, posted
A transgender boy is female to male, the rule of thumb is, wishes to be female, refer to as female, wishes to be male, refer to as male.
[editline]26th March 2012[/editline]
Stupid auto merge broke
[QUOTE=Red Toaster;35295309]It's a transgender boy, no? The pronouns don't matter.[/QUOTE]
The pronouns do matter. It's how we refer to a person.
Being able to feel comfortable with their identity is important to a transgender person, and being called the wrong pronoun by someone who knows they are transgender is quite upsetting.
[QUOTE=Red Toaster;35295309]It's a transgender boy, no? The pronouns don't matter.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to assume you're a boy, and if so, hello madam
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35295135]Oh shut up. I'm saying that there might be a better alternative, and that they don't necessarily do all-of-the-above treatments doesn't change that.[/QUOTE]
No, there isn't a better "alternative" because the "cure" we have now isn't even bad :|
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35295135]Oh shut up. I'm saying that there might be a better alternative, and that they don't necessarily do all-of-the-above treatments doesn't change that.[/QUOTE]
Some Transgender people have been asked, if they could take a pill that somehow makes them happy with thier body, would they take it, the answer that was returned commonly? basically no, that would be changing who they are.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35295135]Oh shut up. I'm saying that there might be a better alternative, and that they don't necessarily do all-of-the-above treatments doesn't change that.[/QUOTE]
Not every transgendered individual gets SRS, and if they want to, why do you want to stop them? What alternative do you propose?
[QUOTE=Red Toaster;35295309]It's a transgender boy, no? The pronouns don't matter.[/QUOTE]
The pronouns DO matter. I get very upset when people refer to me as male pronouns. It's how you refer to a person.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35295135]Oh shut up. I'm saying that there might be a better alternative, and that they don't necessarily do all-of-the-above treatments doesn't change that.[/QUOTE]
A better alternative that:
A) Doesn't fucking exist
B) Requires fundamentally changing the persons identity
C) Is completely hypothetical
D) [I]Is completely impossible[/I]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;35295422]I'm going to assume you're a boy, and if so, hello madam
[editline]25th March 2012[/editline]
No, there isn't a better "alternative" because the "cure" we have now isn't even bad :|[/QUOTE]
I have to say that the effect of using an inappropriate pronoun is probably lost on a cisgender, boiling down essentially to "wtf r u doing" pretty much.
I continue to contend that at least it is a subject worthy of investigation to cure GID, because an ideal cure would be easier for al involved
I could make an analogy to Body Integrity Identity Disorder, a disease in which a person feels that a certain limb of their body is "wrong" and desires to cut it off. It'd be tremendously more easy for all involved to cure the disease, unfeasible as it may be. However some would say that we should allow them to remove the limb, which does have the legitimate argument behind it that they may attempt the removal themself, producing somewhat of a mess in doing so...
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35296758]I have to say that the effect of using an inappropriate pronoun is probably lost on a cisgender, boiling down essentially to "wtf r u doing" pretty much.
I continue to contend that at least it is a subject worthy of investigation to cure GID, because an ideal cure would be easier for al involved
I could make an analogy to Body Integrity Identity Disorder, a disease in which a person feels that a certain limb of their body is "wrong" and desires to cut it off. It'd be tremendously more easy for all involved to cure the disease, unfeasible as it may be. However some would say that we should allow them to remove the limb, which does have the legitimate argument behind it that they may attempt the removal themself, producing somewhat of a mess in doing so...[/QUOTE]
The best cure imo would be if the body recognized a female/male brain forming and the chromosomes corrected themselves to form a female/male body respectively. Perhaps in the future we can do it with genetic manipulation.
[QUOTE=HorizoN;35296837]The best cure imo would be if the body recognized a female/male brain forming and the chromosomes corrected themselves to form a female/male body respectively. Perhaps in the future we can do it with genetic manipulation.[/QUOTE]
And someone (me) has now taken that for her story Universe as an idea!
make a book
I had an idea about an alien species which was of indeterminate sex until a critical point in development at which point they had a 50/50 chance of undergoing an extremely painful, violent even transition into a warrior-like form that was male... or they could remain female.
I suppose that could be analogous to questionable gender identity, and as such, perhaps I, a conservative cunt, would not be suited to write that particular story.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35297411]I had an idea about an alien species which was of indeterminate sex until a critical point in development at which point they had a 50/50 chance of undergoing an extremely painful, violent even transition into a warrior-like form that was male... or they could remain female.
I suppose that could be analogous to questionable gender identity, and as such, perhaps I, a conservative cunt, would not be suited to write that particular story.[/QUOTE]
Except that's not even close to how it works in reality so how is that relevant?
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35297411]I had an idea about an alien species which was of indeterminate sex until a critical point in development at which point they had a 50/50 chance of undergoing an extremely painful, violent even transition into a warrior-like form that was male... or they could remain female.
I suppose that could be analogous to questionable gender identity, and as such, perhaps I, a conservative cunt, would not be suited to write that particular story.[/QUOTE]
"omg im growing boobs and not growing ass hair, its excruciating!"
though I suppose you could be like that guy who keeps writing about how objectivism is leaps and bounds better than cartoonish religious communism
I don't quite understand? As far as I can see some kid wants to be a transgender, but the court is saying that's not right.
If this is what the story is then I think that they shouldn't let a child be a transgender, their just little and aren't old enough to comprehend their choices and their impact on their future.
[QUOTE=Jaks0;35297832]I don't quite understand? As far as I can see some kid wants to be a transgender, but the court is saying that's not right.
If this is what the story is then I think that they shouldn't let a child be a transgender, their just little and aren't old enough to comprehend their choices and their impact on their future.[/QUOTE]
"hi, i'm Jaks0, and while i've obviously never done any reading on trans* issues, i feel fully qualified to make a bone-headed remark about them"
[QUOTE=Jaks0;35297832]I don't quite understand? As far as I can see some kid wants to be a transgender, but the court is saying that's not right.
If this is what the story is then I think that they shouldn't let a child be a transgender, their just little and aren't old enough to comprehend their choices and their impact on their future.[/QUOTE]
She doesn't "want" to be transgender, she IS transgender. Why shouldn't they let her live the way she wants? She feels like a female, she's lived as a female during her life, so what's the problem? Not allowing someone to express who they are in a safe environment is one of the worst things you can do to stifle individual growth.
[QUOTE=Jaks0;35297832]I don't quite understand? As far as I can see some kid wants to be a transgender, but the court is saying that's not right.
If this is what the story is then I think that they shouldn't let a child be a transgender, their just little and aren't old enough to comprehend their choices and their impact on their future.[/QUOTE]
Do you even know what it is to be transgender?
You clearly don't have a single clue if you think that it is a choice.
[QUOTE=Jaks0;35297832]I don't quite understand? As far as I can see some kid wants to be a transgender, but the court is saying that's not right.
If this is what the story is then I think that they shouldn't let a child be a transgender, their just little and aren't old enough to comprehend their choices and their impact on their future.[/QUOTE]
Gender dysphoria happens because of the wrong brain forming, so I'm certain she's been a transgender from birth.
Also how the fuck do you think TGism is a fucking choice? You think I chose this?
[QUOTE=Triumph Forks;35297769]"omg im growing boobs and not growing ass hair, its excruciating!"
though I suppose you could be like that guy who keeps writing about how objectivism is leaps and bounds better than cartoonish religious communism[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=N0 WAR;35297673]Except that's not even close to how it works in reality so how is that relevant?[/QUOTE]
Cripes you even have to criticise this
When I dreamt it up I didn't even put into consideration issues of transgenderism, I only retroactively noticed any connection. As such it was not designed around that issue, and would not be used to further any agenda of mine.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35291967]So we resort to inverting the penis, shaving the skull to be smaller (which was a tremendously painful procedure iirc) , electrolysis, hormone repllacement, voice training, et cetera[/QUOTE]
A friend asks you to fix his computer, because the printer isn't working. You look at the printer and realize it's using some sort of jury-rigged USB adapter for a serial bus you've never seen before. Googling it confirms it only saw use briefly in the soviet union, and whoever made the adapters died a decade ago in a mysterious unicycle accident.
Now, you could tell your friend to stop being a moron and who buys all his peripherals from shady hardware salespeople in back alleys and begin the long, costly process of getting him every single component he needs off newegg. Alternatively, you could attempt to implement full support for коммуниста-шины 592, and probably not succeed within the computer's lifetime.
You're applying really basic, all-other-things-being-equal logic (if X does not work with Y and Z, it is easier to change X than Y and Z) to a situation where all other things are crazy finnicky and have more caveats than a bad contract. Fundamentally altering the brain to rectify gender incongruities would take decades of obscenely expensive research and land you with an ethically dubious "cure". That route is, even if you only posses a superficial comprehension of the problem, ridiculously more complex than doing some basic nipping and tucking (even if you have to do a [I]lot[/I] of nipping and tucking to do). It's not like you can go discover the troublular-shootimus cortex and download a firmware update for man/lady/tigershark parts compatibility. Your fix would involve an understanding of the brain we're not going to have in half a fucking century, and the relevant work towards understanding it is being done right now anyway.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35298469]Cripes you even have to criticise this
When I dreamt it up I didn't even put into consideration issues of transgenderism, I only retroactively noticed any connection. As such it was not designed around that issue, and would not be used to further any agenda of mine.[/QUOTE]
Yeah how dare people point out something that isn't relevant!
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35288490]You're not seriously suggesting racism and gay rights are only a problem in America are you?[/QUOTE]
No of course I'm not saying that, but it seems more prevalent in America, from personal experience I've never met more than a handful of people who had a genuine dislike for people who weren't white and I've met one person who was homophobic.
Yeah those are anecdotes and I know that it's more widespread and my experience is probably anomalous but here in Scotland we had massive campaigns over the past 15 years or so to change peoples opinions and the like, and I'm not from the US so I know for a fact my perception isn't correct cause of course all we see on the news is the worst of the worst.
[editline]26th March 2012[/editline]
As far as i can tell it seems that a few folk here seem to be looking at GID as if it's a virus/disease (not in a negative aspect so to speak but more as a treatable issue) but it's not, it's a default state of mind for this person so why would you try and force the mind to change, a persons mind is not something malleable and easily manipulated, it can easily resist change and degrade if it's pushed too hard or incorrectly and it will have far greater consequences to change the mind than it would to adapt the body.
Essentially that person would live a far happier and harmonious life if you allow them to remain who they are and change their body to fit them as opposed to forcing their mind to accept their body.
What I don't get is there are people who don't start transgender therapy/treatment/whatever until their late 20's or 30's
If as people have claimed- gender dysphoria is so bad that children as young 4 have committed suicide or cut off their genitals because of it (has this ever actually happened?)- then how the hell do these people survive up to that point without doing anything about it?
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35302702]No of course I'm not saying that, but it seems more prevalent in America, from personal experience I've never met more than a handful of people who had a genuine dislike for people who weren't white and I've met one person who was homophobic.
Yeah those are anecdotes and I know that it's more widespread and my experience is probably anomalous but here in Scotland we had massive campaigns over the past 15 years or so to change peoples opinions and the like, and I'm not from the US so I know for a fact my perception isn't correct cause of course all we see on the news is the worst of the worst.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure there's more prevalent homophobia in the Middle East than there is in the United States.
Not Islamophobic, just stating that homophobia is a chronic condition for that area. All three of the Abrahamic religions have had their fair share of homophobic persecution, it just so happens that the Islamic persecution of homosexuals is prevalent at the present time instead of, say, a century ago.
[editline]26th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=RobbL;35304172]What I don't get is there are people who don't start transgender therapy/treatment/whatever until their late 20's or 30's
If as people have claimed- gender dysphoria is so bad that children as young 4 have committed suicide or cut off their genitals because of it (has this ever actually happened?)- then how the hell do these people survive up to that point without doing anything about it?[/QUOTE]
Their parents might have restrained their free will.
Or the dysphoria might have varying levels of severity.
Or they might have been too poor to afford said things.
[QUOTE=RobbL;35304172]What I don't get is there are people who don't start transgender therapy/treatment/whatever until their late 20's or 30's
If as people have claimed- gender dysphoria is so bad that children as young 4 have committed suicide or cut off their genitals because of it (has this ever actually happened?)- then how the hell do these people survive up to that point without doing anything about it?[/QUOTE]
Why rate me dumb? I'm asking a legit question
[QUOTE=RobbL;35304172]What I don't get is there are people who don't start transgender therapy/treatment/whatever until their late 20's or 30's
If as people have claimed- gender dysphoria is so bad that children as young 4 have committed suicide or cut off their genitals because of it (has this ever actually happened?)- then how the hell do these people survive up to that point without doing anything about it?[/QUOTE]Are you just joking or are you really this stupid?
Different people react in different ways. I really feel like I'm trying to explain this concept to a kindergartener. Unfortunately for some people gender dysphoria is so unbearable that they'd rather die than live with it.
[editline]26th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=RobbL;35304223]Why rate me dumb? I'm asking a legit question[/QUOTE]
It was a very dumb question that basically amounts to "why haven't all transgender people who haven't started transgender therapy killed themselves?"
And I don't see the purpose of the question. Are you just trying to dismiss the seriousness of GID?
[QUOTE=RobbL;35304172]What I don't get is there are people who don't start transgender therapy/treatment/whatever until their late 20's or 30's
If as people have claimed- gender dysphoria is so bad that children as young 4 have committed suicide or cut off their genitals because of it (has this ever actually happened?)- then how the hell do these people survive up to that point without doing anything about it?[/QUOTE]
Depends on the person. Some people, like me, were brought up getting ignorant views hammered into their head about this sort of thing. I was taught that it was sinful and wrong, and my dad even told me that he'd kill me if I was like that. I can't even talk to them about it. Every time I mention homosexuality or tansgendered issues they go in full on hate mode, even if they were having a good time, and start complaining about how homosexuals and transgendered people (I don't even think they know what the difference is) are ruining the world somehow.
So damn right I started late, about a year after I moved out. Took me a while to gain the courage to go to a therapist about it. Not THAT late (started a few months ago, I'm 21), but still much later than I would've liked.
[QUOTE=joes33431;35304207]
Or the dysphoria might have varying levels of severity.
[/QUOTE]
Ok, I didn't think about that
Anyway in this other thread about transgenderism, someone was saying that the [I]majority[/I] of gender dysphoria cases are as bad as suicide and genital mutilation and they were getting mad at anyone who even slightly doubted its seriousness. Now obviously they were exaggerating, but they also quoted something I said saying I had nothing to back it up or whatever and then said that even toddlers suffering from gd have committed suicide and mutilated their genitals. I've been searching on Google for a while now, and I can't find anything to back that claim up.
Fuck me, I even got a flood of boxes for suggesting that gender dysphoria is biologically anomalous
Too many people are stupidly biased when it comes to issues like this.