Donald Trump asks for voters to raise their right hand and "swear an oath" to vote for him - Polidicks

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877731]Yes it is. As easy as 'what color is the grass?' [B]Because normal human beings have a moral compass. Torture tends to fall on the 'bad' side of things.[/B][/QUOTE] I don't really think that's a good enough argument tbh. If we had an actual study on just how frequently torture wielded valid results vs invalid beyond the usual 'its less effective than we thought' which offers no actual metric. Dismissing things simply because they doesn't make you feel good isn't how a nation should handle something as important as potential terrorism.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877741]But Mao's communist genocide is okay? Again, people don't die if you torture correctly. I don't understand how you can defend genocide and be against torture.[/QUOTE] I'm not defending genocide, you nincompoop. I'm saying that Communism is not inherently the devil. It's the people that execute it poorly and corrupt it that turn it into a bad thing. [QUOTE=wystan;49877742]Would you not torture a known terrorist if there was even a chance it could save American lives?[/QUOTE] I probably would. That doesn't make it the right choice though, and that's why I'm not in a position to make those choices. That's why I'd vote for someone with a stronger moral compass than I. If we start torturing every terrorist we find just because they might have information, we're not any better than they are. it's astounding that you can't see that.

[QUOTE=Dissolution;49877756]I don't really think that's a good enough argument tbh. If we had an actual study on just how frequently torture wielded valid results vs invalid beyond the usual 'its less effective than we thought' which offers no actual metric. Dismissing things simply because they doesn't make you feel good isn't how a nation should handle something as important as potential terrorism.[/QUOTE] hey luckily, someone already did that for you. [QUOTE=EcksDee;49857260]You know why this specific "we must kill them and their families" approach doesn't work? In the case of ISIS, you're not fighting a specific group of people, you're fighting an ideology. An ideology which gains [B]immense[/B] traction from hearing about how the "brave soldiers of america who have ALL the equipment that they need and ONLY the best" are bombing their fellow countrymen indiscriminately (which is what Donald "You need to kill their families" Trump advocates). The fact that their religious beliefs tend to be more radical (due in large part to their lower level of education) only adds even more fuel to the fire. You know what's gonna happen if Trump gets what his childish mind wants? Instead of a percentage of the middle east being radical, his legacy will be turning maybe even tens of percentages of them into america-hating ISIS fuckwits. ISIS is already pretty much on its last legs, and the [B]only reason they're doing those high profile torture executions is so retards like you go all "nuke them"[/B], because their ideology thrives off the pain that you cause them. That's not even saying anything about your 5 year old mentality of answering torture with torture. You wanna know about the most efficient interrogation techniques? The best (meaning most effective, most able to get info from people) interrogator in history was [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff"]Hanns Scharff[/URL], a Luftwaffe interrogator. Try reading up on what he did: "Scharff was opposed to physically abusing prisoners to obtain information." "he portrayed himself as their closest ally in their predicament, telling them that while he would like nothing more than to see them safely deposited in a POW camp" "Some high-profile prisoners were treated to outings to German airfields (one POW was even allowed to take a BF 109 fighter for a trial run), tea with German fighter aces, swimming pool excursions, and luncheons, among other things. Prisoners were treated well medically at the nearby Hohe Mark Hospital, and some POWs were occasionally allowed to visit their comrades at this hospital for company's sake, as well as the better meals provided there. Scharff was best known for taking his prisoners on strolls through the nearby woods, first having them swear an oath of honor that they would not attempt to escape during their walk." And yet, without waterboarding, without shoving food up a prisoner's ass, without blasting psychologically damaging music in their cells 24/7, [B]he became the most successful interrogator of all time[/B] If what you're saying is true, that Trump would be able to kickstart another fucking war there, then I can't possibly imagine a worse candidate for the highest office currently on this planet. So I answer with your own quote:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49877755]i love the argument that communism has gotten X number of people killed. how many people have died in america because of our precious capitalism? how many die because they cant afford healthcare or food? by no means is this a comprehensive list, but its a start. [url]http://www.petersaysstuff.com/2014/05/attempting-the-impossible-calculating-capitalisms-death-toll/[/url] [B]205,000,000[/B] people dead. and thats a [I]conservative[/I] guess. but please, keep telling me about the horrors of communism (even though there arent any communists even running for president right now haha)[/QUOTE] We were talking about genocide, but good try.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49877761]hey luckily, someone already did that for you.[/QUOTE] Okay first off, since I'm sick of seeing it; stop acting like a brash and smug child. It's not serving your points well at all. Secondly, I very clearly stated an opinion about the validity of dismissing something for emotional reasons - I made no comment my beliefs toward torture.

[QUOTE=Dissolution;49877770]Okay first off, since I'm sick of seeing it; stop acting like a brash and smug child. It's not serving your points well at all. Secondly, I very clearly stated an opinion about the validity of dismissing something for emotional reasons - I made no comment my beliefs toward torture.[/QUOTE] Careful, Anti Christ gets very triggered if you don't have the same opinion as him.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;49877755]i love the argument that communism has gotten X number of people killed. how many people have died in america because of our precious capitalism? how many die because they cant afford healthcare or food? by no means is this a comprehensive list, but its a start. [URL]http://www.petersaysstuff.com/2014/05/attempting-the-impossible-calculating-capitalisms-death-toll/[/URL] [B]205,000,000[/B] people dead. and thats a [I]conservative[/I] guess. but please, keep telling me about the horrors of communism (even though there arent any communists even running for president right now haha)[/QUOTE] Is this the part where I just say your bullshit that Capitalism is "a social, economic, and political standpoint." But I won't because that reason is bullshit. This wasn't brought on by Capitalism, war waged by a country whose economy is capitalist doesn't not make the war capitalism's fault. This is ridiculously narrow-minded. Also, you want to try and knock Capitalism with the inability to provide food? That's cute.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877775]Is this the part where I just say your bullshit that Communism is "a social, economic, and political standpoint." But I won't because that reason is bullshit. This wasn't brought on by Communism, war waged by a country whose economy is communism doesn't not make the war communism's fault. This is ridiculously narrow-minded. Also, you want to try and knock Communism with proverty? That's cute.[/QUOTE] Weird.

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877760]I'm not defending genocide, you nincompoop. I'm saying that Communism is not inherently the devil. It's the people that execute it poorly and corrupt it that turn it into a bad thing. I probably would. That doesn't make it the right choice though, and that's why I'm not in a position to make those choices. That's why I'd vote for someone with a stronger moral compass than I. If we start torturing every terrorist we find just because they might have information, we're not any better than they are. it's astounding that you can't see that.[/QUOTE] So the right choice is let terrorists live and let innocent people die. Okay, I think I know all I need to know about you.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877778]So the right choice is let terrorists live and let innocent people die. Okay, I think I know all I need to know about you.[/QUOTE] The right choice is to properly serve out justice, and not stoop to their level.

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877777]Weird.[/QUOTE] We already went over this. Great Purge, Great Leap Forward, Cambodian Genocide, these were literally brought under the name of Communism. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=kyle877;49877784]The right choice is to properly serve out justice, and not stoop to their level.[/QUOTE] So Americans are inherently better than them? I can get down with that.

Holy crap, you have to be trolling at this point.

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877784]The right choice is to properly serve out justice, and not stoop to their level.[/QUOTE] But why not save innocent lives when you have the opportunity to? Their level is kill innocent people, torturing (not killing) to get information to save lives or keep our country safe is not their level.

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877793]Holy crap, you have to be trolling at this point.[/QUOTE] My opinions are not palatable to you so I must be trolling right?

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877793]Holy crap, you have to be trolling at this point.[/QUOTE] Oh this is my favorite, the "you disagree with me, you must be trolling!" Anti Christ uses that one a lot, it's interesting to see you use it too.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877797]My opinions are not palatable to you so I must be trolling right?[/QUOTE] No, everyone's entitled to their opinion however [QUOTE=wystan;49877785]So Americans are inherently better than them? I can get down with that.[/QUOTE] That is not even close to what I said. You've got a future in politics with that word manipulation though. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49877800]Oh this is my favorite, the "you disagree with me, you must be trolling!" Anti Christ uses that one a lot, it's interesting to see you use it too.[/QUOTE] Cute, but that's not what I was saying that to.

[QUOTE=kyle877; [B]Because normal human beings have a moral compass. Torture tends to fall on the 'bad' side of things.[/B][/QUOTE] Most flawed statement I have seen in a while. Morality is completely subjective. Members of ISIL believe they are just. We believe they are not. This is where your "moral compass" idea falls flat on its face. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] Or hell, lets go to stuff like the Rwandan Genocide or every other human tragedy.

[QUOTE=Cocacoladude;49877818]Most flawed statement I have seen in a while. Morality is completely subjective. Members of ISIL believe they are just. We believe they are not. This is where your "moral compass" idea falls flat on its face. [editline]6th March 2016[/editline] Or hell, lets go to stuff like the Rwandan Genocide or every other human tragedy.[/QUOTE] Morality is subjective, but most reasonable types have a lot of crossover as far as what is generally considered 'good' and what is 'bad.'

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877823]Morality is subjective, but most reasonable types have a lot of crossover as far as what is generally considered 'good' and what is 'bad.'[/QUOTE] Again. Who is reasonable? You are looking at this scenario from your perspective only. Nothing is black and white. What makes you right? Your feeling of moral superiority to those who would harm others for their cause?

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877823]Morality is subjective, but most reasonable types have a lot of crossover as far as what is generally considered 'good' and what is 'bad.'[/QUOTE] So you're the beacon of what's reasonable? Those who disagree are automatically unreasonable?

[QUOTE=wystan;49877835]So you're the beacon of what's reasonable? Those who disagree are automatically unreasonable?[/QUOTE] I've already clearly stated that, in the position where I had those options put in front of me, I would probably torture the guy. If you've actually been reading the posts instead of skimming through and chicken-pecking what suited your argument best (again, like a true politician!) you might've saw that. However I'd wager most of the civilized world would say that torture isn't exactly a good thing. I mean wasn't there a big deal about people wanting a little place called Guantanamo Bay closed down?

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877846]I've already clearly stated that, in the position where I had those options put in front of me, I would probably torture the guy. If you've actually been reading the posts instead of skimming through and chicken-pecking what suited your argument best (again, like a true politician!) you might've saw that. However I'd wager most of the civilized world would say that torture isn't exactly a good thing. I mean wasn't there a big deal about people wanting a little place called Guantanamo Bay closed down?[/QUOTE] Oh, I read your post, but the fact that you would be willing to torture him but just want to pawn off the responsibility to someone else and yet want to disparage us for endorsing it, shows that you don't really have a firm grasp on your views. Additionally, you compare me to a politician with a clearly negative tone, you should love Trump then, he isn't one.

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877846]I've already clearly stated that, in the position where I had those options put in front of me, I would probably torture the guy. If you've actually been reading the posts instead of skimming through and chicken-pecking what suited your argument best (again, like a true politician!) you might've saw that. However I'd wager most of the civilized world would say that torture isn't exactly a good thing. I mean wasn't there a big deal about people wanting a little place called Guantanamo Bay closed down?[/QUOTE] You want to know a funny thing about your statement? Most of the civilized world regularly employs torture. Its easy for us outsiders to stand outside the gates and shout angry words at the people we believe are in the wrong. But what if we are put into their shoes, we have the opportunity to get valuable intelligence that could potentially save many lives, or further our political agenda; all it costs is to torture one person. One person, thats all it takes. But then we can argue for what we perceive as a complete violation of what we see as a complete violation of our perception of human rights. Which a lot of people do not in fact have a right to depending on where they live. Do not get me wrong, I see torture as an absolutely horrid practice. But I might not be correct. It might actually be the best option.

[QUOTE=wystan;49877855]Oh, I read your post, but the fact that you would be willing to torture him but just want to pawn off the responsibility to someone else and yet want to disparage us for endorsing it, shows that you don't really have a firm grasp on your views. Additionally, you compare me to a politician with a clearly negative tone, you should love Trump then, he isn't one.[/QUOTE] I have a very firm grasp on my view. I view myself as someone that shouldn't be given the responsibility or position to have to do that, because I would make a decision under the pressure that would weigh heavy on my conscience. Evil unto evil is still a cruel thing. Also you're right, Trump isn't a politician. He's a [I]con man.[/I]

[QUOTE=kyle877;49877868]I have a very firm grasp on my view. I view myself as someone that shouldn't be given the responsibility or position to have to do that, because I would make a decision under the pressure that would weigh heavy on my conscience. Evil unto evil is still a cruel thing. Also you're right, Trump isn't a politician. He's a [I]con man.[/I][/QUOTE] Back to the moral relativism thing. Torture isn't always evil.

sadist and saint do sound similar, after all

[QUOTE=wystan;49877885]Back to the moral relativism thing. Torture isn't always evil.[/QUOTE] haha you are so out of touch with reality

[QUOTE=wystan;49877742]Would you not torture a known terrorist if there was even a chance it could save American lives?[/QUOTE] No because they would tell me anything - including lies - to get me to stop. Why should I believe the words of a desperate man?

People are comparing inaugural oaths to vows during mass rallies. What.

Like a guy said earlier, all of the ridiculous tryhard press surrounding him makes me like the guy more, and because of it I've grown to like the guy quite a bit since trying to understand him and how he applies business principles to politics. I think it's unprecedented and fascinating from a case-study point of view. I still wouldn't like him to be president, but if the media really doesn't want him to be president then they need to try harder and come up with some actual concrete shit, like happens with Hilary, because it's feeding the fire and giving him more agreeable "Listen to this bullshit they said about me lol" things to say to the people. If they feel like he's being unfairly treated then they'll love him more.