• Syrian state media has been reporting that rebels are going to carry out a massacre in the town of Haffa, in Latakia province.
• Pro-government forces have now sealed off Haffa and refused entry to UN observers, while Kofi Annan says he has received reports of mortar, helicopter and tank attacks in the town.
• Meanwhile Homs has come under heavy mortar attack, with a BBC correspondent reporting shells were falling 'pretty much every minute'.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18404505[/url]
[quote=BBC News]The US has expressed fears that the Syrian government "may be organising another massacre" in the town of Haffa in Latakia province, where UN military observers have been denied access.
International mediator Kofi Annan said he was gravely concerned about violence in Haffa, including reports of mortar, helicopter and tank attacks.
He also cited fears about Homs.
A BBC correspondent travelling with UN observers witnessed sustained and heavy shelling in the old city of Homs.
The UN observers are in Syria to monitor the implementation of a putative ceasefire, brokered by Mr Annan, which has all but collapsed.
'Civilians trapped'
"The UN made a particular appeal to be able to get into Haffa because it had heard concerning reports about regime plans," US state department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland told a news briefing in Washington.
"At the same time, if you follow Syrian media, they were claiming that the opposition would cause a massacre."
Earlier this month, activists said Syrian government forces killed 108 people in the region of Houla, in Homs province, and 78 people in the village of Qubair, in Hama province.
But Ms Nuland downplayed the idea of foreign intervention in Syria, saying the emphasis would remain on using political and economic measures to pressure the government of President Bashar al-Assad.
The Syrian government blames the violence on foreign-backed armed terrorist gangs.
In a statement, Mr Annan, joint envoy for the UN and Arab League, said there were "indications that a large number of civilians are trapped" in Homs and Haffa.
Syrian government helicopter gunships strafed rebel positions in Haffa, UN observers and human rights activists said.
Heavy fighting was also reported in Rastan and Talbisa, north of Homs city, "with artillery and mortar shelling, as well as firing from helicopters, machine guns and smaller arms", said a statement from the UN Supervision Mission in Syria (Unsmis).
A car bomb exploded in the city of Deir al-Zour, killing 10 people, the London-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said, quoting sources on the ground.
Fighting was also reported in Idlib province.
It is impossible to confirm these reports independently, as Syria heavily restricts journalists' freedom of movement.
Russia, which supports the Syrian government, called for Iran to take a role in ending the 15-month old conflict.
Last week, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton rejected the idea of involving Iran, which she accused of "helping to stage-manage the repression" in Syria.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov will travel to Tehran on Wednesday to discuss the initiative, the foreign ministry said.[/quote]
So the massacres aren't just a couple of guys who are up to no good, it looks like they may actually be deliberate false-flag attacks by the regime
I can't imagine how terrible the civilians must be feeling, knowing that within the next couple days, friends and family they know are going to be dead, and all they can do is sit and wait.
The fact that I am sitting at my desk, well fed and happy while there are people trapped in their own homes with military officers outside deciding whether they should die or not so that their corrupt leader can hold onto the illusion of power over a nation hates him fucking scares me.
for the sake of humanity as a whole we cannot let this carry on.
This same thing happened in 1994 during the Rwandan genocide, nobody intervened.
[QUOTE=theenemy;36291480]The fact that I am sitting at my desk, well fed and happy while there are people trapped in their own homes with military officers outside deciding whether they should die or not so that their corrupt leader can hold onto the illusion of power over a nation hates him fucking scares me.
for the sake of humanity as a whole we cannot let this carry on.[/QUOTE]
But we will because they decided the UN needed a Security Council, the most useless, progress halting idea we've ever had.
[QUOTE=Gundevil;36291917]But we will because they decided the UN needed a Security Council, the most useless, progress halting idea we've ever had.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe the fault is with the council, I believe the fault is with the 'one veto' rule. A single, corrupt nation can force the entire UN's hand. It's not right.
Then again, if you say 'two vetos' then nothing would get done either. The blame lies squarely on Syria, Russia and China. I'm also not happy with the Arab League not seeming to do anything, but with Syria's apparent military power I'm not completely surprised.
They're going to seal off and massacre another city full of people while the UN sits on their hands and does nothing.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;36291985]UN[/QUOTE]
Right now, the UN are the real criminals.
God damnit, it's like Srebrenica all over again.
I don't fucking care about the UN anymore, i say we just get on over there and start saving lifes and chopping off our foes heads left and right.
[QUOTE=darkedone02;36292182]I don't fucking care about the UN anymore, i say we just get on over there and start saving lifes and chopping off our foes heads left and right.[/QUOTE]
Good luck rallying 10k+ people to do it with you...
[QUOTE=darkedone02;36292182]I don't fucking care about the UN anymore, i say we just get on over there and start saving lifes and chopping off our foes heads left and right.[/QUOTE]
It would probably help to identify the "foes" first since apparently there is confusion about who is actually responsible for these massacres
I don't care which country intervenes, something should be done.
This is frustrating to watch. Can't we at least use drones or something? We use them all the time in Pakistan.
[QUOTE=OvB;36292492]This is frustrating to watch. Can't we at least use drones or something? We use them all the time in Pakistan.[/QUOTE]
Uh, in a crowded city that isn't effective. You'd kill too many civilians.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;36291979]I don't believe the fault is with the council, I believe the fault is with the 'one veto' rule. A single, corrupt nation can force the entire UN's hand. It's not right.
Then again, if you say 'two vetos' then nothing would get done either. The blame lies squarely on Syria, Russia and China. I'm also not happy with the Arab League not seeming to do anything, but with Syria's apparent military power I'm not completely surprised.[/QUOTE]
The entire point of the Security Council is the one veto rule, that is the basis of it's existence revolves around that rule.
[QUOTE=faze;36292523]Uh, in a crowded city that isn't effective. You'd kill too many civilians.[/QUOTE]
Artillery positions are not in cities. Military instillation are not in cities. Their air bases are not in cities. Bomb those with drones and destroy their military's effectiveness. I think the problem with drones would be Syria's competent air defense system and air force. You'd have to risk the Air Force's toybox of stealth drones, and I'm not sure if those are combat ready.
[QUOTE=OvB;36292599]Artillery positions are not in cities. Military instillation are not in cities. Their air bases are not in cities. Bomb those with drones and destroy their military's effectiveness. I think the problem with drones would be Syria's competent air defense system and air force. You'd have to risk the Air Force's toybox of stealth drones, and I'm not sure if those are combat ready.[/QUOTE]And the few counties that still support Syria would be pissed as hell.
US in Iraq, Afghanistan, soon Iran and Syria.
Western corporate expansion for mineral resources are under way.
[QUOTE=OvB;36292599]Artillery positions are not in cities. Military instillation are not in cities. Their air bases are not in cities. Bomb those with drones and destroy their military's effectiveness. I think the problem with drones would be Syria's competent air defense system and air force. You'd have to risk the Air Force's toybox of stealth drones, and I'm not sure if those are combat ready.[/QUOTE]
...and ground troops? Can't take them all out with UAV's.
[QUOTE=faze;36292030]Right now, the UN are the real criminals.[/QUOTE]
You're thinking of Russia. They veto'd, not the UN.
[QUOTE=sHiBaN;36292637]US in Iraq, Afghanistan, soon Iran and Syria.
Western corporate expansion for mineral resources are under way.[/QUOTE]
If you're under the age of 12, I'll forgive you for that positively dumb statement.
[QUOTE=sHiBaN;36292637]US in Iraq, Afghanistan, soon Iran and Syria.
Western corporate expansion for mineral resources are under way.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you reading?
[QUOTE=faze;36292665]...and ground troops? Can't take them all out with UAV's.[/QUOTE]
Don't take out the ground troops. Just take out Syria's ability to attack cities with tanks, artillery and aircraft. The Free Syrian Army has shown they can deal with the troops. Helping them by clearing out the heavier stuff would help immensely.
I would much rather support wars for actual freedom then the current wars on terror. Right now I don't care who does it or how it's done, but the Syrian people are getting slaughtered by their own government while everyone that's capable of helping just watches and that's unacceptable. Nothing's going to happen like past situations with Africa and elsewhere and that's just as anger inducing. If america is so gun-ho on waging wars for freedom lets actually do it for once, rather than political gain.
Have Syrians asked us to assist yet? If the FSA and the Syrian public don't want us to intervene than we should respect their decision. But if they're pleading for help then we shouldn't wait a day longer.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;36291985]They're going to seal off and massacre another city full of people while the UN sits on their hands and does nothing.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me, they're probably writing a very angry letter right now. Might even use red ink 'cause they're so ballsy.
At some point, shit's just going to blow up in everyones faces.
Invade, flatten government, set up new government.
Anything's better than these assholes, even a "puppet" government.
[QUOTE=smurfy;36291011]
So the massacres aren't just a couple of guys who are up to no good, it looks like they may actually be deliberate false-flag attacks by the regime[/QUOTE]
With the Syrian government being in the spotlight of a revolution, why on earth would anyone actually believe the Syrian government's claim that it's nothing more than "foreign-backed armed terrorist gangs"?
(Not necessarily directed at OP, just stating that generally)
[QUOTE=MightyMax;36292994]Invade, flatten government, set up new government.
Anything's better than these assholes, even a "puppet" government.[/QUOTE]
So you want to give them a Mubarak and that's that? Fuck you, that's a shit solution.
[QUOTE=MightyMax;36292994]Invade, flatten government, set up new government.
Anything's better than these assholes, even a "puppet" government.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, because that worked out so well in Iraq, and Vietnam, and North Korea, and Cuba...should I continue?
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