Sweden 'to expel up to 80,000 failed asylum-seekers'
99 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49623967]more like completely true?
forget historical misdeeds, think of the last 100 years of destabilisation in the Middle East
but when we start having to deal with the instability that we had a huge hand in causing, suddenly it's "oh no we couldn't possibly put up with all these refugees"[/QUOTE]
Okay so are we going to force Turkey, Mongolia, and Uzbekistan to start accepting refugees as well?
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;49624224]Okay so are we going to force Turkey, Mongolia, and Uzbekistan to start accepting refugees as well?[/QUOTE]
Most refugees are currently in Turkey.
[QUOTE=paul simon;49623895]Well, isn't it humanity's responsibility to fix humanity's problems?[/QUOTE]
Only after the Emperor of Manking unifies us.
What I find strange is that every person they expel will be entitled to 30000 kr (15000 if you are under the age of 18), that's like more than a billion kr. Also, I wonder if the ruling parties are going to keep pointing the finger at the Sweden Democrats for being anti immigration after this.
[QUOTE=maeZtro;49624263] Also, I wonder if the ruling parties are going to keep pointing the finger at the Sweden Democrats for being anti immigration after this.[/QUOTE]
that won't happen
Can somebeody find a source where the numbers add up correctly?
45% of 58800 is not 60k
So Sweden refused 26460 refugees last year. That means they had at least 30k refused before last year still waiting to be sent back?
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swebonny;49623760]Fucking disgusting countries to be honest. Fuels their war and conflict, and accepts barely any refugees. Jesus.[/QUOTE]
And that's only weapons.
Don't forget the "medical equipment that totally won't be used for producing Sarin gas" that was used to produce Sarin gas.
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;49624224]Okay so are we going to force Turkey, Mongolia, and Uzbekistan to start accepting refugees as well?[/QUOTE]
i'm glad you used turkey, seeing as they've accepted 1.9 million refugees
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
i hope you didn't suggest forcing mongolia for Genghis khan as your historical reason
because if you did, that'd be pretty fucking hilarious
[QUOTE=Killuah;49624442]
And that's only weapons.
Don't forget the "medical equipment that totally won't be used for producing Sarin gas" that was used to produce Sarin gas.[/QUOTE]
I pointed out how that info was false, unless you think they shipped $7 billion of equipment to make sarin gas?
[QUOTE=Araknid;49622192]This is the dumbest shit I have ever heard.
They're taking stuff to help pay for the expenses involved to take care of the fucking refugees, not kill them.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention that the same measures apply to locals who are seeking welfare just as well.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;49624562]I pointed out how that info was false, unless you think they shipped $7 billion of equipment to make sarin gas?[/QUOTE]
"could be wrong" and "I'm guessing" is not pointing out false info.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49624590]"could be wrong" and "I'm guessing" is not pointing out false info.[/QUOTE]
Look at what I linked then, the $7 billion it claims is pulled from humanitarian aid numbers.
Am I going too far off script for you?
No but you could stop your condescending tone, that would be nice.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;49623760]Fucking disgusting countries to be honest. Fuels their war and conflict, and accepts barely any refugees. Jesus.[/QUOTE]
Atleast the US, Canada, and the UK to an extent have the excuse for being geographically distant. Despite putting more money into the conflict (caveats: that chart is total bullshit and humanitarian aid alone is in the hundreds of millions) I think the those countries have less of an obligation than surrounding Middle Eastern countries who refuse to take refugees purely for political or tribal reasons. Iraq at the very least needs to step up and fix the problem it caused by allowing sectarian violence get so out of hand.
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
That's not to suggest that the US, Canada, or the UK shouldn't have to accept any refugees, I just see the logic that countries should accept refugees based on how much money they have spent in Syria to be incredibly simplistic and frankly ignorant of geographical and geopolitical realities.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49622265]You can't up and just kick out 80,000 people in one fell swoop. That's just not logistically possible[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49622646]Well not with that attitude.[/QUOTE]
In one fell swoop?
We're talking around 500 flights, depending on the number of seats, averaging out at about 200 seats per plane, maybe??
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
Also why was this even brought up as a concern? It might be cheaper in some ways to send them off even at slower paces, they are not even paying for it.
All in all, it's a pretty sad situation for quite a lot of people.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49624669]Atleast the US, Canada, and the UK to an extent have the excuse for being geographically distant. Despite putting more money into the conflict (caveats: that chart is total bullshit and humanitarian aid alone is in the hundreds of millions) I think the those countries have less of an obligation than surrounding Middle Eastern countries who refuse to take refugees purely for political or tribal reasons. Iraq at the very least needs to step up and fix the problem it caused by allowing sectarian violence get so out of hand.
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
That's not to suggest that the US, Canada, or the UK shouldn't have to accept any refugees, I just see the logic that countries should accept refugees based on how much money they have spent in Syria to be incredibly simplistic and frankly ignorant of geographical and geopolitical realities.[/QUOTE]
That's no excuse at all and it never was in the last ~500 years of war.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49624748]That's no excuse at all and it never was in the last ~500 years of war.[/QUOTE]
It's a good thing you backed up your position with solid reasoning and compelling thoughts.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49624669]Atleast the US, Canada, and the UK to an extent have the excuse for being geographically distant. Despite putting more money into the conflict (caveats: that chart is total bullshit and humanitarian aid alone is in the hundreds of millions) I think the those countries have less of an obligation than surrounding Middle Eastern countries who refuse to take refugees purely for political or tribal reasons. Iraq at the very least needs to step up and fix the problem it caused by allowing sectarian violence get so out of hand.
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
That's not to suggest that the US, Canada, or the UK shouldn't have to accept any refugees, I just see the logic that countries should accept refugees based on how much money they have spent in Syria to be incredibly simplistic and frankly ignorant of geographical and geopolitical realities.[/QUOTE]
It's not fair at all to blame western powers for millennia long sectarian conflicts
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49625022]It's not fair at all to blame western powers for millennia long sectarian conflicts[/QUOTE]
Surrounding countries Arab countries should be taking more of the burden but there is a solid argument that western powers actively funding factions of a war probably have some moral obligation to helping the civilians of said war.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49625022]It's not fair at all to blame western powers for millennia long sectarian conflicts[/QUOTE]
no, but it is fair to blame western powers for a series of disastrous interventions and manipulations in the middle east, which destabilized an entire region
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49625033]Surrounding countries Arab countries should be taking more of the burden but there is a solid argument that western powers actively funding factions of a war probably have some moral obligation to helping the civilians of said war.[/QUOTE]
which is exactly what is happening
[img]http://www.trbimg.com/img-55f0921b/turbine/la-fg-migrants-scorecard-20150908-001/650/650x366[/img]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49625033]Surrounding countries Arab countries should be taking more of the burden but there is a solid argument that western powers actively funding factions of a war probably have some moral obligation to helping the civilians of said war.[/QUOTE]
Lebanon and Jordan are fucking buckling under the strain of refugees. Lebanon has roughly 1/4 the size of its population in refugees.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49625033]Surrounding countries Arab countries should be taking more of the burden but there is a solid argument that western powers actively funding factions of a war probably have some moral obligation to helping the civilians of said war.[/QUOTE]
Which is why Lebanon and Turkey are taking in most of the refugees. Seriously though, the burden should be on the ones who have the money and resources to take it - which just happens to be Europe. They're not exactly living in prime conditions in the border countries.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49624991]It's a good thing you backed up your position with solid reasoning and compelling thoughts.[/QUOTE]
I don't think I need to back up that geographic distance was never an excuse for not going into military action and thus is also no excuse for denying humanitarian aid and if you really can't see that and need it explained to you I'm sorry but I won't do that,especially seeing the posts above this one.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49625035]
which is exactly what is happening[/QUOTE]
"migrant scorecard" is such a sad, cynical headline.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49625046]Lebanon and Jordan are fucking buckling under the strain of refugees. Lebanon has roughly 1/4 the size of its population in refugees.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;49625051]Which is why Lebanon and Turkey are taking in most of the refugees. Seriously though, the burden should be on the ones who have the money and resources to take it - which just happens to be Europe. They're not exactly living in prime conditions in the border countries.[/QUOTE]
I knew Turkey and Jordan were taking on a huge amount with both countries opening up their borders long before there was talk of a crisis in the west, but I didn't know that about Lebanon.
Seeing Iraq, the country arguably most responsible for the chaos in Syria taking half or even a quarter of refugees than countries much smaller than it is sad though.
[QUOTE=Killuah;49625062]I don't think I need to back up that geographic distance was never an excuse for not going into military action and thus is also no excuse for humanitarian aid and if you really can't see that and need it explained to you I'm sorry but I won't do that.[/QUOTE]
I never said anything about humanitarian aid, I was talking about refugees: actual human beings moving from one area to another geographically to escape deadly conflict.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49625082]I knew Turkey and Jordan were taking on a huge amount with both countries opening up their borders long before there was talk of a crisis in the west, but I didn't know that about Lebanon.[/QUOTE]
Personally I think it's sad how the entire EU together is barely willing to help one percent of the refugees.
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49625082]I never said anything about humanitarian aid, I was talking about refugees: actual human beings moving from one area to another geographically to escape deadly conflict.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure that goes under the definition of humanitarian aid.
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
Actually it doesn't?
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;49625107]Personally I think it's sad how the entire EU together is barely willing to help one percent of the refugees.[/QUOTE]
The systems and agencies in charge of bringing people into EU countries are currently swamped though. There is so much pressure to let people in that we don't even have hard data on exactly how many people are refugees.
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;49625134][thumb]https://i.imgur.com/PBSmQkT.png[/thumb]
Bit hard to get from Syria to Iraq with that giant ISIS blob in the way.[/QUOTE]
Source on this image?
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49624501]i hope you didn't suggest forcing mongolia for Genghis khan as your historical reason
because if you did, that'd be pretty fucking hilarious[/QUOTE]
My point is refugees are not a currency for paying reparations.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49623658]i love it, a century of domination over the rest of the world, genocides committed and vicious repression and manipulation, the actual retardation of progress across the world, first by Europe and the US, and eventually it comes to reap what it sows, a human tide of misery, decades in gestation, the third world washing up on its shores, actual poetic justice - no consolation that is to anyone - and people actually have the shortsightedness to feel contempt and resentment at the destitution they've passively had a hand in creating. what a load of shit, gloating over deportation. as if even half of us have done shit all for the world to deserve anything more than a migrant.[/QUOTE]
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, or if you genuinely feel this much guilt and self-loathing to an extent where you're fine with seeing your own country and people be put under such a severe and unnecessary amount of political and social strain. Never mind your own country and people for a moment, you apparently feel that way about everybody living on your continent (and here in the United States)-- indifferent to whether or not they ever even had anything to do with this crisis in the first place (which, no, for the record, the majority of us did not have anything to do with it; but congratulations on trying to throw everybody in the West under the same blanket of guilt).
Guess you're fine with all those rapes and assaults and murders that have been committed against your own people too by refugees, right? That Swedish woman who was stabbed to death a few days ago by a young asylum seeker, she had it coming according to your thinking. What a bitch for going out of her way to try and help other people and dying in the process...
[editline]28 January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49623672]Good thing it's not Sweden's responsibility to fix Syria's problems. That's a job for the healthy, military-age men who are leaving en masse.[/QUOTE]
Why not send Kommodore over to help too?
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;49625160]My point is refugees are not a currency for paying reparations.[/QUOTE]
no, but they're a result of western actions, and should be taken care of by the west because we have a moral obligation to be accountable for our fuckups
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;49625149][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Syrian,_Iraqi,_and_Lebanese_insurgencies.png[/url][/QUOTE]
I can't find any sources that corroborate these pictures with the actual situation on the ground but it generally matches up with most maps of that area so whatever. It's not entirely relevant though because it's not like Syrian refugees to Iraq just travel in a straight line from Syria through ISIS held territory. There are parts of the border not actively controlled by ISIS (indeed, parts controlled by militias supported by the government of Iraq) not to mention the border with Jordan, a country that routinely pulls more than it's fair share when it comes to humanitarian crises in the region.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49625178]no, but they're a result of western actions, and should be taken care of by the west because we have a moral obligation to be accountable for our fuckups[/QUOTE]
It's not even about morals, anybody should be able to see how it would benefit everybody in the future by not neglecting the lives of millions only because they come from the middle east.
[editline]28th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Govna;49625164]Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, or if you genuinely feel this much guilt and self-loathing to an extent where you're fine with seeing your own country and people be put under such a severe and unnecessary amount of political and social strain. Never mind your own country and people for a moment, you apparently feel that way about everybody living on your continent (and here in the United States)-- indifferent to whether or not they ever even had anything to do with this crisis in the first place (which, no, for the record, the majority of us did not have anything to do with it; but congratulations on trying to throw everybody in the West under the same blanket of guilt).
Guess you're fine with all those rapes and assaults and murders that have been committed against your own people too by refugees, right? That Swedish woman who was stabbed to death a few days ago by a young asylum seeker, she had it coming according to your thinking. What a bitch for going out of her way to try and help other people and dying in the process...[/QUOTE]
Woah way to put words in someones mouth :v:
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