OOPS: Russian missiles 'fell on Iran' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48862816]Xenophobia doesn't necessarily mean racism by the way. It's a dislike or not caring of people you don't consider a part of your group, typically your nation, AKA Syria right now.[/QUOTE] i know that, i was talking about the "racism" part he mentioned in his post

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48862899]i know that, i was talking about the "racism" part he mentioned in his post[/QUOTE] Oh, well I have nothing else to say then.

It really depends on how the missiles are pre-programmed. You fuck up the elevation or the waypoint...you're going to smack the ground. Based off of the unclassified flight path, odds are they slammed into the side of a hill/mountain/cliff/something elevated in Iran. The elevation derived out of a program (let's say google just as an example) won't be 100% accurate. You have these extremely accurate "posts" with a 30M spacing between them. Well lets say post 1 was 100M MSL and post 2 was 50M MSL. I would in theory program the missile to fly 150M MSL between each post just to be safe. Well between those posts..we have a huge terrain spike up to 160M. The posts (or DTED level 2) will only calculate the average between all the 30M spaced posts. So the missile would end up smacking or clipping into the side of something that wasn't intended. However, I don't have a clue of whether or not the Russians use this data. They might have a completely different elevation data format for all I know. And hell...they probably sent a few of them on the same flight path. Resulting in the same unintended hit for the rest. However, the data that I'm talking about is this if you feel up to learning something today. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTED[/url] Just a theory though. Nothing concrete.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48862816]Xenophobia doesn't necessarily mean racism by the way. It's a dislike or not caring of people you don't consider a part of your group, typically your nation, AKA Syria right now.[/QUOTE] "Not caring" is not xenophobia, else literally everyone is xenophobic: you can't be emotionally invested in everything that happens somewhere. Maybe it's some degree of insensitivity if you don't care at all about something bad that happens to other people, maybe it's even something pathological, but it's certainly not xenophobic.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48862417]people here don't care about syria because it is some far off country they'll never actually interact with, not because the people are brown. if syrians were white, there would still be the same level of apathy[/QUOTE] I don't know why you're assuming that people can't care about other people they don't know or interact with. There's numerous examples that prove this broad, generalizing and unfair theory wrong.

Obligatory 'video proof or GTFO' post. It's all well and good to have top US officials coming out with these statements, but until I see preferably a video, I'm not going to believe it. You don't need a tinfoil hat to see why the US DOD would want to shit all over Russians showing off their capabilities.

Was just an engine failure likely, not to get your freedom-panties or vodka-panties in a knot guys. I find it very stupid the source is "Anonymous" too

Don't worry, the missiles are just on vacation.

[QUOTE=Teddybeer;48864519]Great, because that video is never going to exist (some explosion circles as a rumor but not that many as reported in the OP). But is it really that hard to accept that it might be [B]partly[/B] true as bombs at times have minds of their own (see entire areas you can't visit because of bomb left over at a conflict) and partly execrated for US and allies propaganda needs. Completely dismissing it is a stupid as completely accepting it, both sides have their propaganda war going to claim their shit is folded over 1000 times glorious Nippon Steel.[/QUOTE] Shit [I]does[/I] happen.

Oh god I get SSL connection errors and I come back to this destruction It's kind of unfair to say I always accuse everyone of being xenophobic/racist, Gudman. This is about the first time I swear :frown: On the flipside, some of our European posters probably interact with Syrians on a regular basis (or a least feel their presence), and hate them for the fact that they've occupied space in their country. Is it justifiable to call them all welfare-leeching blemishes on civilized society, or to at least think of them as that? I have no idea. They don't really impede my ability to have a good life here, and there are a few. But on to the actual meat of the discussion, I think a lot of people don't necessarily realize that they're eating propaganda, or even creating nationalistic pride out of something so incredibly generic of a missile malfunction. "haha wtf russia aimed at syria and hit iran what are you doin putin" like do these people know that missiles have to fly over land to actually hit a target, it was quite obviously a malfunction of the engines or some other complication during flight as many have said. It's not like the circular error probable of the missile is 500 miles or something, but that's what a few posters seemed to imply. Ridiculous. And of course we have Vrej claiming the Western media is a huge conspiratory propaganda machine when Western media is primarily privately owned and has (throughout history modern, in the recent past, and in the distant past) normally reported on news even if it held a negative or embarrassing view towards Western governments. What this means for consumers of Western media is that they're probably trustworthy as long as their sources are also reputable. This is not always the case of course. You can't actually consider FSA brigade #15 with 25% of its members giving US supplies to al nusra as a reliable source on the conflict, can you? As much as regime news may skew its own reports (Come on, vrej. Your country's news organizations are owned mostly by the government. What does Bashar gain from telling the truth if the truth is gonna hurt him? You can't call Western media corrupt and then turn around and claim what your government is telling you is the undeniable truth) the opposition will skew its story as much or more. People only believe opposition propaganda because Bashar al Assad is made out to be the bad guy in the West and the "moderate" opposition is made out to be the good guys.

No big deal, Russia & Iran are best friends. They've both been supporting Assad for years with logistics and personnel.

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;48865440] It's kind of unfair to say I always accuse everyone of being xenophobic/racist, Gudman. This is about the first time I swear :frown:[/quote] Yeah I overreacted a bit, might've confused you with someone else, easily. Or maybe it's just the common overuse of the word "racism" when it comes to refugee crisis that got to me. Fuck, I've been wrongly lashing out a lot recently, I need to take a chill pill. [quote]On the flipside, some of our European posters probably interact with Syrians on a regular basis (or a least feel their presence), and hate them for the fact that they've occupied space in their country. Is it justifiable to call them all welfare-leeching blemishes on civilized society, or to at least think of them as that? I have no idea. They don't really impede my ability to have a good life here, and there are a few.[/quote] While I'm certain that a some of it does come from some... not really racist, there're very few actual overt or even closeted racists on FP from what I've seen, but let's say xenophobic angles, I don't think it's that prevalent. From my understanding, the most prevalent sentiment boils down to something along the lines of "why do they get shit for free and I don't". Some people feel entitled, nothing really new.

[QUOTE=gudman;48865772]Yeah I overreacted a bit, might've confused you with someone else, easily. Or maybe it's just the common overuse of the word "racism" when it comes to refugee crisis that got to me. Fuck, I've been wrongly lashing out a lot recently, I need to take a chill pill. While I'm certain that a some of it does come from some... not really racist, there're very few actual overt or even closeted racists on FP from what I've seen, but let's say xenophobic angles, I don't think it's that prevalent. From my understanding, the most prevalent sentiment boils down to something along the lines of "why do they get shit for free and I don't". Some people feel entitled, nothing really new.[/QUOTE] I did misappropriate the term 'racism'. My bad, really. It's xenophobia at most. The offensive thing really is that people rationalize it. They're all economic migrants, they were living fine and dandy making two cents a day on the streets in Turkey! etc. So, does anyone still think Russia fired a missile at Syria and it touched down in Iran due to feeble Russian aiming, or what? [editline]9th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=l33tkill;48863779]It really depends on how the missiles are pre-programmed. You fuck up the elevation or the waypoint...you're going to smack the ground. Based off of the unclassified flight path, odds are they slammed into the side of a hill/mountain/cliff/something elevated in Iran. The elevation derived out of a program (let's say google just as an example) won't be 100% accurate. You have these extremely accurate "posts" with a 30M spacing between them. Well lets say post 1 was 100M MSL and post 2 was 50M MSL. I would in theory program the missile to fly 150M MSL between each post just to be safe. Well between those posts..we have a huge terrain spike up to 160M. The posts (or DTED level 2) will only calculate the average between all the 30M spaced posts. So the missile would end up smacking or clipping into the side of something that wasn't intended. However, I don't have a clue of whether or not the Russians use this data. They might have a completely different elevation data format for all I know. And hell...they probably sent a few of them on the same flight path. Resulting in the same unintended hit for the rest. However, the data that I'm talking about is this if you feel up to learning something today. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTED[/url] Just a theory though. Nothing concrete.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I'm more with a malfunction of the missile. Russian missiles (mostly old ones, probably) are known to fail catastrophically in flight or at launch on occasion. [video=youtube;Z4RJ-mS0yAg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4RJ-mS0yAg[/video]

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;48866252] So, does anyone still think Russia fired a missile at Syria and it touched down in Iran due to feeble Russian aiming, or what?[/QUOTE] Well it's still 50/50 if the event took place at all, Iranian military apparently [url=http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/claims-that-russian-missiles-hit-iran-are-lies-and-part-of-psychological-war-says-iranian-general-musa-kamali-31596439.html]denies it altogether[/url]. Don't know how reliable the source is though. I don't believe [b]anyone[/b] anymore, at this point it seems to me that just about everyone is lying through their teeth. Unless there's a video, that is, and it doesn't seem doctored or misleading to me.

[QUOTE=gudman;48866316]Well it's still 50/50 if the event took place at all, Iranian military apparently [URL="http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/claims-that-russian-missiles-hit-iran-are-lies-and-part-of-psychological-war-says-iranian-general-musa-kamali-31596439.html"]denies it altogether[/URL]. Don't know how reliable the source is though. I don't believe [B]anyone[/B] anymore, at this point it seems to me that just about everyone is lying through their teeth. Unless there's a video, that is, and it doesn't seem doctored or misleading to me.[/QUOTE] Iran has reasons for which it might deny such an event happened, but honestly to me it doesn't seem like a big deal enough (and there's not really any proof it happened!). At this point, I doubt anyone should care if a cruise missile hit some empty tan desert in the middle of Iran

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;48866351]Iran has reasons for which it might deny such an event happened, but honestly to me it doesn't seem like a big deal enough. At this point, I doubt anyone should care if a cruise missile hit some empty tan desert in the middle of Iran[/QUOTE] Exactly, Iran isn't the most reliable source lol, not by any stretch. But that's the point though, seems like no one is. At this point everyone is relying on some "anonymous official", or "inside source", or on some obscure twitter account on Arabic and thank god if it contains a video, if it's just a photo - better run an image search. I absolutely wouldn't be surprised if a couple missiles malfunctioned on their way to the target on their first proper launch, frankly I too don't see why it's a big deal. But even such a minor event raises a question "did it even really happen though?", and the lack of definitive answer saddens me.

[QUOTE=Killuah;48864367]I don't know why you're assuming that people can't care about other people they don't know or interact with. There's numerous examples that prove this broad, generalizing and unfair theory wrong.[/QUOTE] i didn't mean to say it wasn't possible for people to care about other people, but i don't think it is unfair to say that people in general care more and pay more attention to domestic issues than they do about issues in foreign lands, at least it seems that way in america. it just so happens that syria is far enough away and different enough culturally from the US that very few people here have cared enough about it to do anything about it besides maybe think "oh man those poor syrians".

[url]http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/defense-secretary-confirms-russian-missiles-crashed-iran-34365006[/url] The US Defense Secretary is publicly saying that four of the Russian cruise missiles crashed in Iran. They believe due to malfunction.