UK: "Do not jail all paedophiles, offer rehabilitation." says police chief - Polidicks

Just to clarify for non UK As I understand it In the UK images of sexual acts involving children fall into 5 levels: 1-4 is nude, non nude stuff like that. 1 being the least """""serious""""" Level 5 is hard-core and the worst stuff. Drawings, such as Loli and 3d animated stuff is classed as [B]prohibited[/B] which doesn't means that it doesn't always carry a prison sentence (custodial) but can still give you a suspended sentence (commit another crime while on suspended and you will go to prison for both) I believe. Either way I believe you go on the sex offender's register so even having drawings can still be a very serious crime in the eyes of the law. I don't know what the stance is on drawings you made YOURSELF but I believe that might class as 'creating prohibited material.'

[QUOTE=Mattk50;51886320]in the UK they prosecute people for drawings so this statement makes sense. Doesn't make any sense to throw someone in jail for having what can be produced with a mind, pen, and paper and no harm to anyone anywhere. Obviously if you're involved in real child pornography you should be in prison as you're already harming children and are a danger to society. Rehabilitation can take place while your in prison once you've gone there.[/QUOTE] Wait, the UK prosecutes for drawings? As in Loli or just realistic drawings?

[QUOTE=MadBomber;51886930]Wait, the UK prosecutes for drawings? As in Loli or just realistic drawings?[/QUOTE] both. lolicon is illegal in the UK iirc

[QUOTE=MadBomber;51886930]Wait, the UK prosecutes for drawings? As in Loli or just realistic drawings?[/QUOTE] Lol better magnet your drive friend! UK is p conservative toward porn in general atm. Last year they banned female ejuculations, watersports and face sitting

[QUOTE=MadBomber;51886930]Wait, the UK prosecutes for drawings? As in Loli or just realistic drawings?[/QUOTE] If it's a child under the age of 16 (our age of consent) And a drawing/3d/animated it is illegal. (prohibited)

For the ones that haven't molested anyone it'd be for the better

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51886980]For the ones that haven't molested anyone it'd be for the better[/QUOTE] This. Procecute child molesters, help paedophiles. The whole stigma about paedophelia is, while somewhat understandable, completely counterproductive. It's one that will mess up the people who actually need and want help but can't because they will be branded as a horrible person (while not really haivng done anything)

I think prosecute is more the word you were looking for, there...

[QUOTE=Araknid;51886737]What a terrible idea. Viewing this shit could lead to them actually trying to do it.[/QUOTE] I mean, you've (Probably?) not raped someone because you watch porn, what would make it different for them?

If they're non-violent and indicate a desire to change, put them in a probation program. This guy's got it right - there are too many non-violent offenders to waste time and money locking up. Save prison for violent offenders who are an active threat to public safety. It costs anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000 a year to incarcerate someone, depending on the local cost of living and the budget of the correctional facility. The offenders typically aren't contributing to society, and the simple fact that they're incarcerated means they're more likely to re-offend when they finish their sentence. Community corrections costs pennies a day. Keep an offender in the community, they continue to work and pay taxes. They also retain their support network of family and friends, which lowers their chances of recidivating.

[QUOTE=Araknid;51886737]What a terrible idea. Viewing this shit could lead to them actually trying to do it.[/QUOTE] Or it provides them an outlet for their desires that doesn't hurt anyone. This seems more likely based on my own knowledge of psychology, and the idea of a drawing being illegal has a number of it's own significant issues. We rightfully crack down on cp made with real children because it hurts real children but limiting drawings gets into free speech issues and you need to draw a certain line before you start raiding art galleries for picturing cherubs. Or you outlaw pornstars with small tits because "they look like children" as australia has.

A lot of them get a lot less time than they deserve

[QUOTE=Crooky14;51887373]A lot of them get a lot less time than they deserve[/QUOTE] Jailtime and being tortured and murdered aren't enough?

The optimal way to deal with pedophilia is to offer rehabilitation and counseling. Throwing them in a jail cell is an outdated, deprecated idea that has proven time and time again to not work whatsoever in this case. The problem is that there's this whole social stigma surrounding pedophilia which, while here for a legitimate reason, has far too much influence on the legal outcome of the crime and everything surrounding it. The fact some countries calling themselves progressive are still dumb enough to try and restrict [I]drawn fucking porn[/I] just because of the subject matter, therefore entrenching people further into hiding deeper and looking for far more dangerous content way out of public sight, is mind-boggling to me.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51887620]The optimal way to deal with pedophilia is to offer rehabilitation and counseling. Throwing them in a jail cell is an outdated, deprecated idea that has proven time and time again to not work whatsoever in this case. The problem is that there's this whole social stigma surrounding pedophilia which, while here for a legitimate reason, has far too much influence on the legal outcome of the crime and everything surrounding it. The fact some countries calling themselves progressive are still dumb enough to try and restrict [I]drawn fucking porn[/I] just because of the subject matter, therefore entrenching people further into hiding deeper and looking for far more dangerous content way out of public sight, is mind-boggling to me.[/QUOTE] I agree that counselling should be widely available but Jail time is necessary for active paedophiles. There should be a social stigma for paedophillia, it's not something that will ever be acceptable. Arguably the more society accepts something the less of a stigma it becomes and the more it occurs.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51888360]I agree that counselling should be widely available but Jail time is necessary for active paedophiles. There should be a social stigma for paedophillia, it's not something that will ever be acceptable. Arguably the more society accepts something the less of a stigma it becomes and the more it occurs.[/QUOTE] There should be a stigma for child molestation. Having a stigma for a mental disorder does not help the people with that disorder that wants and needs help. It's destructive and coutnerproductive.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51886484]suppose the fear is that they will go on creating demand for child pron (thus stimulating supply) or will go on to be a threat to children.[/QUOTE] The thing is though, from what I can tell, those that simply [I]view[/I] child porn aren't committing the same crime(s) that people that [I]pay[/I] for it commit. It's not like there's some sort of pornhub-style channel where people post that shit, there's a reason that pedophile rings develop. AFAIK, if you're at the point of paying for it then you're proably committing other crimes, and if you're viewing it but not paying for it then you aren't creating demand for it.

[QUOTE=phygon;51888499]The thing is though, from what I can tell, those that simply [I]view[/I] child porn aren't committing the same crime(s) that people that [I]pay[/I] for it commit. It's not like there's some sort of pornhub-style channel where people post that shit, there's a reason that pedophile rings develop. AFAIK, if you're at the point of paying for it then you're proably committing other crimes, and if you're viewing it but not paying for it then you aren't creating demand for it.[/QUOTE] is the reason that rings develop that the free stuff isn't hardcore enough?

If someone has urges there should be systems in place so they can get help and get them under control, In an idea world it should be easy for people to get help before they can do any harm. Harm reduction is a better goal that incarceration, this goes for any crime where possible, it's usually cheaper, more effective and leads to more productive tax paying citizens.

[QUOTE=phygon;51888499]The thing is though, from what I can tell, those that simply [I]view[/I] child porn aren't committing the same crime(s) that people that [I]pay[/I] for it commit. It's not like there's some sort of pornhub-style channel where people post that shit, there's a reason that pedophile rings develop. AFAIK, if you're at the point of paying for it then you're proably committing other crimes, and if you're viewing it but not paying for it then you aren't creating demand for it.[/QUOTE] This is an abhorrent thought, but there may not need to be a [I]financial[/I] incentive for someone to create and spread child pornography. Wanting praise from their pedo community, gaining access to exclusive groups, trading for [I]other[/I] pieces of child pornography-- they're all plausible reasons for someone to do it "pro bono".

What absolutely [i]needs[/i] to happen is for support to be made available for these people [i]before[/i] they end up giving in and causing harm. There's a large number of pedophiles who desperately want not to be attracted to children, but currently their only options are go to the police and be put on a watchlist (which does nothing to actually stop them from doing anything harmful) or be quiet about it and try to deal with it themselves. [url]https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb#.yvktd2l3m[/url] This is an interesting read (but depressing as fuck), and gives a good idea what it's like for some of these people. It's easy to label all pedophiles as evil but as with everything else it's not all black and white.

[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;51890496]This is an abhorrent thought, but there may not need to be a [I]financial[/I] incentive for someone to create and spread child pornography. Wanting praise from their pedo community, gaining access to exclusive groups, trading for [I]other[/I] pieces of child pornography-- they're all plausible reasons for someone to do it "pro bono".[/QUOTE] Trading porn for porn doesn't sound any more insidious than just looking at it. If you're implying that they / others would be the ones [I]producing[/I] it... refer to my first statement [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51888739]is the reason that rings develop that the free stuff isn't hardcore enough?[/QUOTE] Hell if I know. From the news all that I know about are the rings full of rich old white dudes into the same fucked up stuff.

Lmfao came in here to say how hilariously backward the UK's socially conservative stances and laws on porn are. You guys may have a much more representative system of government that I envy, but yeesh, what's up with the no squirting?

[QUOTE=OFLC;51886609]Dear fuck you degenerates are bunch a retards. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] OFLC advocates thought policing confirmed

I don't understand the "but it's a drawing" defense for loli. You do realize that they most likely use reference photos right?

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51895990]I don't understand the "but it's a drawing" defense for loli. You do realize that they most likely use reference photos right?[/QUOTE] Highly unlikely tbh.

[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51894093]Lmfao came in here to say how hilariously backward the UK's socially conservative stances and laws on porn are. You guys may have a much more representative system of government that I envy, but yeesh, what's up with the no squirting?[/QUOTE] Conservative nanny state thought police. That was just a bunch of buzz words, but I couldn't think of a better way to explain it. Our current government are all conservative fuckwits, and they're now headed by an authoritarian prude. Their understanding of sex is limited to the thrill of a good few missionary humps after a fox hunt, while the scene of a defenseless creature being torn apart by dogs is still fresh in their mind. Everything else short of that is 'non-conventional' and should be banned as such.

On the topic of the legal status of drawn pornography of characters that are minors: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_drawn_pornography_depicting_minors"]here's the Wikipedia article on the subject[/URL]; oh, and then there's the [URL="http://www.idahopress.com/news/local/ex-teacher-gets-prison-in-child-porn-case/article_f57b9564-2394-11e0-aae3-001cc4c03286.html"]US vs. Steven Kutzner case[/URL]. I'm with the US and UK on this one: R34 of minors in fiction is still just as disgusting as the real thing to me and likely other people as well, even if it is simulated and isn't harming anyone directly and no matter what the excuses are or how many there will be, that will never change. Doesn't help how recently this was an issue that hit close to home with me as it turns out that a (used to be) favorite artist of mine turned out to have a thing for Sonic pronz (specifically of the really young characters) and he wasn't afraid to show it off to anyone who was visiting his Tumblr page; now I don't even want to look back because of their mistrustful nature, along with a number of other factors. Doesn't mean that the punishment should always be stretched to that of the real thing or that they don't deserve a second chance; like Psychokitten said, if they show the willingness to change and don't go further down that road and get into even more extreme shit (i.e: [I]real[/I] real trouble) then rehabilitation is definitely an option.

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51896597]On the topic of the legal status of drawn pornography of characters that are minors: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_drawn_pornography_depicting_minors"]here's the Wikipedia article on the subject[/URL]; oh, and then there's the [URL="http://www.idahopress.com/news/local/ex-teacher-gets-prison-in-child-porn-case/article_f57b9564-2394-11e0-aae3-001cc4c03286.html"]US vs. Steven Kutzner case[/URL]. I'm with the US and UK on this one: R34 of minors in fiction is still just as disgusting as the real thing to me and likely other people as well, even if it is simulated and isn't harming anyone directly and no matter what the excuses are or how many there will be, that will never change. Doesn't help how recently this was an issue that hit close to home with me as it turns out that a (used to be) favorite artist of mine turned out to have a thing for Sonic pronz (specifically of the really young characters) and he wasn't afraid to show it off to anyone who was visiting his Tumblr page; now I don't even want to look back because of their mistrustful nature, along with a number of other factors. Doesn't mean that the punishment should always be stretched to that of the real thing or that they don't deserve a second chance; like Psychokitten said, if they show the willingness to change and don't go further down that road and get into even more extreme shit (i.e: [I]real[/I] real trouble) then rehabilitation is definitely an option.[/QUOTE] I think that drawings being a crime is...wrong. Homicide is super illegal (and even more egregious of a crime, frankly, considering you're literally killing someone), yet you can draw the most fucked up, brutal torture scene and be a-okay. Hell, Hollywood and the video game industry is full of that shit (SAW, GTA V torture scene/in general, anyone?) Pretty clear double standard. Nobody really has sympathy for paedophiles (and gee I wonder why), but Jesus Christ. Illegal cartoons? Really? Idk, it just seems a bit Orwellian to me. I agree with the people above who've said it seems counter-productive, the goal should be to help these people, not push them further into the shadows.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;51895990]I don't understand the "but it's a drawing" defense for loli. You do realize that they most likely use reference photos right?[/QUOTE] What the fuck, no they don't ? If they did the artist would be able to publish a total of one pic before they're caught and arrested.