• Starbucks Seeks to Keep Guns Out of Its Coffee Shops
    205 replies, posted
Starbucks is legally entitled to let or disallow anybody from using their stores. I do not see much of a problem.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42234515]At this point we're just rehashing whether businesses should be able to refuse service on the basis of such things.[/QUOTE] Every business across the U.S. has the complete right to refuse service to, or ban anything they want, inside of their store and on their property. As far as your comment about making people feel uncomfortable, that is just your view. Believe it or not, 99% of people don't give two shits about people carrying a holstered firearm, much less pay any mind to someone carrying a firearm. The ones who do bring it up, are the uneducated ones, and in almost all instances they are put to ease once a law enforcement officer tells them it's legal. Also, this article isn't about the occasional person carrying a firearm in Starbucks, it's about a very large group of people holding an unauthorized rally at Starbucks.
wait, would people actually bring their guns inside a starbucks?
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;42234751]wait, would people actually bring their guns inside a starbucks?[/QUOTE] Gotta flaunt their [I]MAN!![/I] card somehow.
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;42234751]wait, would people actually bring their guns inside a starbucks?[/QUOTE] People do it all the time, open and concealed. Also, Starbucks is just one of many locations that support local and state laws allowing carry.
[QUOTE=Mr. Foster;42234773]People do it all the time, open and concealed.[/QUOTE] If anyone here saw a person walk into a shop, cafe, business, anything with a firearm or rifle of any sort and wasn't a police officer, everyone would flip their shit, run away, call triple 0 (emergency number) and you'd be locked up for a bit of time I'm sorry I don't understand America but honestly concealing weapons scares me
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42234787]If anyone here saw a person walk into a shop, cafe, business, anything with a firearm or rifle of any sort and wasn't a police officer, everyone would flip their shit, run away, call triple 0 (emergency number) and you'd be locked up for a bit of time I'm sorry I don't understand America but honestly concealing weapons scares me[/QUOTE] Where exactly do you live?
[QUOTE=The golden;42234830]Welcome to US gun culture. It makes absolutely zero sense to anyone that isn't involved in it. [editline]18th September 2013[/editline] Frux is Australian.[/QUOTE] That explains my confusion. Here in America, since our country was founded, things like this have been the norm. The practice of Open Carry has died down overtime, but it's still perfectly legal in the majority of states, and currently there are many states that are making it legal again. Oklahoma and Mississippi both recently passed laws allowing Open Carry again, and Arkansas just revised some of their state ordinances making it clear that Open Carry is legal. Open Carry aside, concealed carry is legal in every state.
So a mass shooting occured in the naval yard which was supposedly a "gun free zone" beyond the entryways. So in response, starbucks is urging their patrons to turn their facilities into more "gun free zones"?
I really only think the only people who should be allowed to "open carry" are Royal Army personnel (either Navy, RAAF etc) or Police I don't honestly trust a civilian with a weapon, I don't even care if they are trained, I just don't want to see a gun when I am having a good time it makes me feel scared and like something will happen and many people will agree
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;42234893]So a mass shooting occured in the naval yard which was supposedly a "gun free zone" beyond the entryways. So in response, starbucks is urging their patrons to turn their facilities into more "gun free zones"?[/QUOTE] No, a bunch of Open Carry advocates planned a mass rally at Starbucks to support the right to Open Carry. Starbucks didn't want the attention.
[QUOTE=Explosions;42233567]Why are you uncomfortable? [/QUOTE] I think there's a naturally ingrained fearful reaction toward firearms in general. Guns are designed around the sole objective of critically injuring/killing humans, so it peeves me when people pull the "lol what's to be scared of" card if somebody mentions their discomfort.
[QUOTE=Derubermensch;42234893]So a mass shooting occured in the naval yard which was supposedly a "gun free zone" beyond the entryways. So in response, starbucks is urging their patrons to turn their facilities into more "gun free zones"?[/QUOTE] They're politely asking to refrain from bringing guns in because they want nothing to do with this gun control bullshit politics stuff going on. They wanna be neutral, thats [I]it.[/I] [editline]18th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Tommeh!;42234924]I think there's a naturally ingrained fearful reaction toward firearms in general. Guns are designed around the sole objective of critically injuring/killing humans, so it peeves me when people pull the "lol what's to be scared of" card if somebody mentions their discomfort.[/QUOTE] Don't be afraid of a gun, be afraid of a shooter.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42234549]I am so thankful Australia has strict as fuck gun laws because I actually feel safe everywhere I go knowing I won't see some batshit insane man mow down a group of civilians with a rifle [b]I don't get gun culture[/b] but I sure am glad I am not apart of it[/QUOTE] That's what makes you so thankful. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42234549]I am so thankful Australia has strict as fuck gun laws because I actually feel safe everywhere I go knowing I won't see some batshit insane man mow down a group of civilians with a rifle I don't get gun culture but I sure am glad I am not apart of it[/QUOTE] I've never felt afraid that I was going to get mowed down by a rifle and I live in Georgia with some of the most lax gun laws in the country.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42234911]I really only think the only people who should be allowed to "open carry" are Royal Army personnel (either Navy, RAAF etc) or Police I don't honestly trust a civilian with a weapon, I don't even care if they are trained, I just don't want to see a gun when I am having a good time it makes me feel scared and like something will happen and many people will agree[/QUOTE] What makes anyone from the military or police any different from another human being? Firearms training is very universal. Other than personal skill level, when it comes to handling firearms, someone in the police or military has no advantage over an ordinary citizen. Also, in most cases, police practice/fire their firearms less than an ordinary citizen. When it comes to the military, the vast majority are trained on one set of gear, and not a wide variety. You come from a different culture, which is why your viewpoint is vastly different.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;42234941]That's what makes you so thankful. As they say, ignorance is bliss.[/QUOTE] What's wrong with me being ignorant about Gun Culture, I don't fucking get the need to carry a weapon on me everywhere I go, it makes people feel in danger 24/7, I like walking around town without worrying I'll be transported to hospital because I got shot by some fuckwit who thought it'd be cool to blast a city with led I'd rather be stabbed or bashed than be shot, honestly
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42234993]What's wrong with me being ignorant about Gun Culture, I don't fucking get the need to carry a weapon on me everywhere I go, it makes people feel in danger 24/7, I like walking around town without worrying I'll be transported to hospital because I got shot by some fuckwit who thought it'd be cool to blast a city with led I'd rather be stabbed or bashed than be shot, honestly[/QUOTE] It's not wrong, and I would feel the same way in your position I'm sure. But living in the US, I have the opportunity to gain the first hand experience so that my view isn't skewed by popular media and sensationalism in the news. I'm just saying that your view of the US and gun culture is, understandably, false.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42234993]What's wrong with me being ignorant about Gun Culture, I don't fucking get the need to carry a weapon on me everywhere I go, it makes people feel in danger 24/7, [b]I like walking around town without worrying I'll be transported to hospital because I got shot by some fuckwit who thought it'd be cool to blast a city with led[/b] I'd rather be stabbed or bashed than be shot, honestly[/QUOTE] This is now just idiotic stereotyping. You are calling law-abiding citizens mass-murderers.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42234993]What's wrong with me being ignorant about Gun Culture, I don't fucking get the need to carry a weapon on me everywhere I go, it makes people feel in danger 24/7, [b]I like walking around town without worrying I'll be transported to hospital because I got shot by some fuckwit who thought it'd be cool to blast a city with led[/b] I'd rather be stabbed or bashed than be shot, honestly[/QUOTE] Do you walk around in fear of being hit by a car? Because there a lot more fuckwits who own cars and they're just as deadly. Living in fear of anything is childish and isn't a good basis for making laws.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42234928] Don't be afraid of a gun, be afraid of a shooter.[/QUOTE] why the fuck shouldn't I be afraid of the gun, what's the shooter going to do without a gun? go on a fucking punching spree? [editline]18th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;42235012]Do you walk around in fear of being hit by a car? Because there a lot more fuckwits who own cars and they're just as deadly. Living in fear of anything is childish and isn't a good basis for making laws.[/QUOTE] cars dont exist to fucking kill people
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;42235020]why the fuck shouldn't I be afraid of the gun, what's the shooter going to do without a gun? go on a fucking punching spree? [editline]18th September 2013[/editline] cars dont exist to fucking kill people[/QUOTE] Because a [I]Shooter[/I] with no gun [I]isn't a shooter anymore.[/I]
[QUOTE=Mr. Foster;42234773]People do it all the time, open and concealed. Also, Starbucks is just one of many locations that support local and state laws allowing carry.[/QUOTE] They are not supporting local gun laws - they are differing their rules to them. They do not support guns, they are not against guns. They are for doing whatever is legal. The whole point of this endeavor is to show that they do not want anything to do with gun politics. They just want a nice place to hang out.
[QUOTE=Mr. Foster;42235011]This is now just idiotic stereotyping. You are calling law-abiding citizens mass-murderers.[/QUOTE] Not everyone is a mass murderer but that doesn't mean I'll trust them, if you look at the figures, ever since John Howard put in laws such as the mandatory buy back scheme and some other shit you'll see homicide, gun violence and everything else across the board drop significantly and that happened within three months of it being passed or something it was a huge success I'm just saying I don't think Civilians need guns unless you're a Police officer or in the Army, and I guess farmers should have one if they have threats of bats or other wildlife destroying their stock (which Australia does have) but you never see a farmer carry his shotgun in town [editline]18th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;42235012]Do you walk around in fear of being hit by a car? Because there a lot more fuckwits who own cars and they're just as deadly. Living in fear of anything is childish and isn't a good basis for making laws.[/QUOTE] Hey, I'd rather be fucking hit by a car than a bullet anyday, and cars are designed for transport, not for killing
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;42235020]why the fuck shouldn't I be afraid of the gun, what's the shooter going to do without a gun? go on a fucking punching spree? [/QUOTE] What is a shooter without a gun, just another person. What is a gun without a shooter, just a hunk of metal and plastics/wood. Pretty much you need both to have a threat, a person sitting down with a rifle over their shoulder or set leaning on the table is no threat to you. I would go to a military golf course several times a month, and police would come in for lunch and bring their rifles in due to they had to have them with them even while on break, you get used to it. [QUOTE]cars dont exist to fucking kill people [/QUOTE] Doesn't make them any less dangerous.
[QUOTE=dbk21894;42235061]They are not supporting local gun laws - they are differing their rules to them. They do not support guns, they are not against guns. They are for doing whatever is legal. The whole point of this endeavor is to show that they do not want anything to do with gun politics. They just want a nice place to hang out.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, but there are many locations that specifically use the word support in their policies.
[QUOTE=The golden;42235054]I would rather an outside objective view on US gun culture than an internal one when many participants thinks guns are "baddass" and "cool".[/QUOTE] Sounds more to me like you don't want to hear an opinion different than yours from someone with actual credibility. I say that because your reasoning for not wanting an American opinion is 100% stereotype.
[QUOTE=deadoon;42235083]Pretty much you need both to have a threat, a person sitting down with a rifle over their shoulder or set leaning on the table is no threat to you. [/QUOTE] I'm seriously having a hard time trying to work out how you're fine with this
The usage of firearms in a self-defense situation is only viable for concealed carry because of the element of surprise escalation. Open carry removes that ability and only serves to give the criminal the intel he needs to commit the crime better. Instead of being attacked by one guy with a knife, an open carry person will be attacked by three guys with guns, because the criminals were given the first chance to escalate the conflict and the open-carry individual has no tricks up his sleeve to persuade them from attacking him. A concealed carry gives a seemingly exploitable person the ability to instantly escalate the conflict in their favour, a criminal is more likely to attack what they believe is an unarmed person with a knife than a visibly armed one. I'd gladly let them bad open carry as long as concealed carry was still 100% legal.
[QUOTE=Tommeh!;42234924]I think there's a naturally ingrained fearful reaction toward firearms in general. Guns are designed around the sole objective of critically injuring/killing humans, so it peeves me when people pull the "lol what's to be scared of" card if somebody mentions their discomfort.[/QUOTE] It's definitely not "natural." Modern society has brainwashed people to be inherently afraid of tools instead of the people that use them. A legally owned gun should, based on statistics, make you feel more secure than you would otherwise. "A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which the gun was "used" by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies." - [URL]http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18319&page=16[/URL] (CDC study ordered by Obama)
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.