Starbucks Seeks to Keep Guns Out of Its Coffee Shops
205 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42254179]You're not innocent if you're invading somebodies home.[/QUOTE]
actually IIRC when the homeowners bring out a firearm they are more likely to be shot by the intruder. the homeowner may not intend to use a weapon, but the intruder may. the sentence for murder is much greater than the sentence for robbery so IIRC people tend not to kill unless they are threatended.
[editline]20th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Foster;42254552]Domestic crimes exist, and will continue to happen, regardless of guns. Guns existing in the hands of civilians does not automatically mean domestic crimes will increase.
The fact you even mentioned home invasion completely kills your argument. More lives are saved every year because criminals are shot or deterred by guns during home invasions. Yes, it's tragic if an innocent person such as a family member were to die in a home invasion. It also appears that you have done little research on this particular subject as well. This is incredibly rare, and when it does happen, are you aware that police are responsible for more deaths of innocent people during home invasions than civilians are?[/QUOTE]
more lives are lost. homeowners die.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42254568]actually IIRC when the homeowners bring out a firearm they are more likely to be shot by the intruder. the homeowner may not intend to use a weapon, but the intruder may. the sentence for murder is much greater than the sentence for robbery so IIRC people tend not to kill unless they are threatended.
[editline]20th September 2013[/editline]
more lives are lost. homeowners die.[/QUOTE]
That data was from a flawed study that was not initially peer reviewed, and when it was it was widely criticized for inaccuracies.
[editline]20th September 2013[/editline]
Also, related to this story:
[url]http://www.ktnv.com/news/local/172377151.html?lc=Smart[/url]
Perhaps Starbucks may reconsider this now.
funny how places like georgia, north carolina, and alabama all have castle laws and high gun ownership (> 40+%) yet they all have extremely high rates of burgarlies.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state[/url]
[url]http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_04.html#overview[/url]
[QUOTE=sgman91;42253270]It makes you safer and has essentially no negative side. Makes sense to me.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://pretentiousape.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/64891158_gun_deaths_dev_countries_464.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;42254653]That data was from a flawed study that was not initially peer reviewed, and when it was it was widely criticized for inaccuracies.
[editline]20th September 2013[/editline]
Also, related to this story:
[url]http://www.ktnv.com/news/local/172377151.html?lc=Smart[/url]
[/QUOTE]
which study? I've heard of multiple studies coming to the same conclusion.
also, that's a cop, not some random person.
the issue isn't if random people can shoot, it's the fact that guns in general make people uncomfortable. especially anti-gun hipsters that frequent starbucks.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42254728]funny how places like georgia, north carolina, and alabama all have castle laws and high gun ownership (> 40+%) yet they all have extremely high rates of burgarlies.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state[/url]
[url]http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_04.html#overview[/url][/QUOTE]
[sp]People are stealing the guns.[/sp]
i'm by no means well versed on gun culture, laws etc - being aussie means it's simply something I don't have to worry about
but it looks to me that gun culture in america (and I'm talking 'self defence' as I understand - sport shooting is a different story) is a self supplying thing - people want guns for self defence, more guns in distribution (legal or not) because of demand, higher gun crime rates, people want guns for self defence and so on
that and ye olde principles, resistance from people who want to keep their guns and states having quite independent views must make it nigh impossible to fix/change
apologies for what is likely a naive observation, but idk, the topic interests me especially because of how similar our overall cultures are - but with the major difference in gun culture
on a more personal note, as would be expected, I would not be at all comfortable passing by people knowing that frequently I'd pass someone carrying a gun (even ignoring open carry)
that said, I'd support sport shooting along with the usual armed police and so on
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42254754]which study? I've heard of multiple studies coming to the same conclusion.
also, that's a cop, not some random person.
the issue isn't if random people can shoot, it's the fact that guns in general make people uncomfortable. especially anti-gun hipsters that frequent starbucks.[/QUOTE]
Specifically the Kellerman study, and everywhere I've seen has just parroted him, and the cop was off-duty, meaning he was plainclothes and carrying likely a personal firearm. Anyone who is uncomfortable with guns is quite simply ignorantly scared of them, and most arguments I see against this are simply projection of one's own issues onto others. Just because you'd be a paranoid trigger-happy nut with a gun doesn't mean others will, and trying to tell them they can't protect themselves because you're ignorant, scared, and paranoid is terrible.
This isn't really relevant at all just a random tidbit
Starbucks' old logo had female breasts on it and they changed it to be PC with the times. Aggravates me sometimes.
[img]http://eplay.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/13/strabucks.jpg[/img]
Much more simple now but no boobs ;[
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42254736][IMG]http://pretentiousape.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/64891158_gun_deaths_dev_countries_464.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Oh man, you really ZINGED me by pointing out a correlation and assuming causation, doing one the most common logical fallacies in the book, but hey! It was sure a ZINGER.
80% of gun (For fairness's sake, I had stupidly forgotten to include the word gun before editing) homicides in the US are gang related. We have a gang problem in our cities, not a gun problem.
[editline]20th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42254728]funny how places like georgia, north carolina, and alabama all have castle laws and high gun ownership (> 40+%) yet they all have extremely high rates of burgarlies.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state[/URL]
[URL]http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_04.html#overview[/URL][/QUOTE]
Funny how states like DC, with insane gun regulations, also has one of the highest murder rates.
Hint: it's more complicated than gun laws.
[QUOTE=CottonTM;42255061]This isn't really relevant at all just a random tidbit
Starbucks' old logo had female breasts on it and they changed it to be PC with the times. Aggravates me sometimes.
[IMG]http://eplay.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/13/strabucks.jpg[/IMG]
Much more simple now but no boobs ;[[/QUOTE]
I'm sure you can live without getting the chance to see a black and white pair of tits on a starbucks logo. Just google "tits" for christ's sake.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42255409]I love how people think correlation = causation as long as it agrees with their preconceived notions.
80% of homicides in the US are gang related. We have a gang problem in our cities, not a gun problem.[/QUOTE]
[quote=The Economist]If America is ever to confront its obsession with guns, that time is now. America’s murder rate is four times higher than Britain’s and six times higher than Germany’s. Only an idiot, or an anti-American bigot prepared to maintain that Americans are four times more murderous than Britons, could possibly pretend that no connection exists between those figures and the fact that 300m guns are “out there” in the United States, more than one for every adult.[/quote]
[QUOTE]If America is ever to confront its obsession with guns, that time is now. America’s murder rate is four times higher than Britain’s and six times higher than Germany’s. Only an idiot, or an anti-American bigot prepared to maintain that Americans are four times more murderous than Britons, could possibly pretend that no connection exists between those figures and the fact that 300m guns are “out there” in the United States, more than one for every adult.[/QUOTE]
Calling people idiots doesn't make your point stronger.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42255519]Calling people dumb doesn't make your argument stronger.[/QUOTE]
Idk these are pretty strong words coming from The Economist. Arguably the most respected opinion piece in the world.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42255528]Idk these are pretty strong words coming from The Economist. Arguably the most respected opinion piece in the world.[/QUOTE]
Appealing to authority doesn't make your argument stronger either.
[B]80% of homicides are gang related.[/B] I WOULD 100% say that gangs are more murderous than the average European that doesn't have a gang problem to nearly the same degree. It makes perfect sense.
Combine the gang problem with a much less homogeneous culture and violence is bound to be higher.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42255540]Appealing to authority doesn't make your argument stronger either.
[B]80% of homicides are gang related.[/B] I WOULD 100% say that gangs are more murderous than the average European that doesn't have a gang problem to nearly the same degree. It makes perfect sense.[/QUOTE]
According the the FBI, gang related homicide accounts to 12% of all homicide.
Try again.
Not to mention America is statistically less violent than Europe.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42255568]According the the FBI, gang related homicide accounts to 12% of all homicide.
Try again.
Not to mention America is statistically less violent than Europe.[/QUOTE]
My fault for not being clear. I was specifically referring to gun homicides.
According the CDC 80% of gun homicides are gang related.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;42246207]People who had a device made to injure other people at hand got hurt less themselves when facing a threat than people who tried to fend off danger with broomsticks and cursing? that's impossible
A firearm is still a tool for killing, or inspiring fear in others because [I]it's a tool for killing,[/I] and it has no place at a food court or other location with trained security guards. This isn't the wild west anymore, and Starbucks isn't some saloon.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I live like 10-15 minutes from the Clackamas shopping center where there was a shooting around the same time as Newtown. The shooter there was stopped by someone legally carrying inside the mall. SO YEAH, TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE FOR THAT GUY TO BE CARRYING A WEAPON AND SAVING A BUNCH OF PEOPLES LIVES. HOW RUDE OF THAT GUY. SHOULD HAVE TOTALLY THOUGHT ABOUT HOW UNCOMFORTABLE HE WAS MAKING PEOPLE, AND HOW SCARED THEY COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN.
[QUOTE=smfE;42253018]For the general public to still have guns in america makes no sense to me[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but i enjoy sport shooting, and target shooting. I enjoy shooting a .22 at cans and bottles. Does that make me a psychopath that wants to cull the idiots of america? No that makes me look like a redneck when i'm Mexican.
I built my AR 15 that has no serial number. Why? because i'm American and i can. Gun Culture is engraved into many Americans. Whether it be simple hunters using bolt actions to people using semi-auto ARs and AKs.
Maybe if you tried target shooting or sport shooting you would understand.
I have turned many anti gun friends into pro gun friends. Not by brainwashing them, but taking them out to the range to explain why shooting is fun and safe when done right.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42254736][img]http://pretentiousape.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/64891158_gun_deaths_dev_countries_464.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
I wonder if it affects anything that the united states has a higher population than most of the other countries on there combined.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42257321]I wonder if it affects anything that the united states has a higher population than most of the other countries on there combined.[/QUOTE]
united states is equal to japan, germany, uk, canada, and australia combined in terms of population but still has more crimes on average PER CAPITA than those 5 countries combined, per capita.
lol
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42257321]I wonder if it affects anything that the united states has a higher population than most of the other countries on there combined.[/QUOTE]
holy shit how can you not understand what per capita is.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42257507]holy shit how can you not understand what per capita is.[/QUOTE]
holy shit I was asking a question. Rude.
Also, haven't cracked a book in 3 years and took maybe a year of economics, christ lay off.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42257711]holy shit I was asking a question. Rude.
Also, haven't cracked a book in 3 years and took maybe a year of economics, christ lay off.[/QUOTE]
it even said
"rate per 100,000"
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42257853]it even said
"rate per 100,000"[/QUOTE]
Dude seriously why are you being an ass. I literally haven't had a day of school since highschool three and a half years ago and the econ class was personal economics and it was because I had to.
Ask a question, get flamed cause I didn't take econ. Nice. Asshole.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42257895]Dude seriously why are you being an ass. I literally haven't had a day of school since highschool three and a half years ago and the econ class was personal economics and it was because I had to.
Ask a question, get flamed cause I didn't take econ. Nice. Asshole.[/QUOTE]
i don't mean to be rude but it IS on the graph that you were commenting on. it's just a matter of reading comprehension man
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42257895]Dude seriously why are you being an ass. I literally haven't had a day of school since highschool three and a half years ago and the econ class was personal economics and it was because I had to.
Ask a question, get flamed cause I didn't take econ. Nice. Asshole.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why you're getting so offended, his post wasn't even that aggressive.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42257895]Dude seriously why are you being an ass. I literally haven't had a day of school since highschool three and a half years ago and the econ class was personal economics and it was because I had to.
Ask a question, get flamed cause I didn't take econ. Nice. Asshole.[/QUOTE]
lmao you going to be alright there buddy
[QUOTE=Cone;42257927]i don't mean to be rude but it IS on the graph that you were commenting on. it's just a matter of reading comprehension man[/QUOTE]
[I]And I didn't fucking know they were the same thing.[/I]
Fuckit, I'll just leave this thread too. Goddamn.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42257943][I]And I didn't fucking know they were the same thing.[/I]
Fuckit, I'll just leave this thread too. Goddamn.[/QUOTE]
They're being so aggressive because your 'question' looks more like a whiseass remark. A wrong one at that.
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