• Ukrainian Gun Owners Association seeking to amend the constitution
    83 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Stopper;44038685]The greatest freedom does not come from being able to defend yourself by any means necessary, but from not having to defend yourself.[/QUOTE] Its the guys with the clubs that rule, always. A government is simply a congregation of cavemen who wants to be in control, protected by a lot of other cavemen with clubs to beat down whoever tries to defy whatever the caveman in control says. Replace "club" with any current time relevant weapon. Most countries are built on some sort of violence, some guys had to club their way to power. Its a sad reality, really. Someone important once said "A kingdom built on violence, crumbles to violence"
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;44038628]What? you can get automatics registered, it just takes months, if not years of extensive background checking, and a $200 stamp for each weapon, oh and it costs upwards of $14,000 to buy a new factory made m16. people saying "they're gun take ouuur gunz away!" are deluded idiots.[/QUOTE] Actually it costs $14,000 for a pre-ban M16 or AR with a registered auto sear. Automatic AR15 platforms tend to go for a little more than a grand new, cheaper than their semi-auto counterparts. Once you actually pass the background checks and receive the license and can purchase dealer samples, it's cheap automatics galore. Problem is you have to sell x amount of firearms a year AND turn a profit to maintain the license.
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;44038934]Actually it costs $14,000 for a pre-ban M16 or AR with a registered auto sear. [B]Automatic AR15 platforms tend to go for a little more than a grand new, cheaper than their semi-auto counterparts.[/B][/QUOTE] And where can I get one of these all american automatic baby killing rifles?
[QUOTE=seano12;44038950]And where can I get one of these all american automatic baby killing rifles?[/QUOTE] Direct from manufacturer as long as you can: 1) Provide a license to sell arms 2) Show that you can 'potentially' sell to state/government agencys 3) Require the weapon for live demonstration The last two are hilariously broad, but the whole thing requires you to basically own a very successful gunshop(which in turn gets local police interest in your weapons, allowing you to get a letter stating their interest and satisfying the conditions). This is actually one of the more common ways you will see gunshop owners obtain their automatic firearms, for cheap too. It's actually a good system, because once the shop closes or the weapon is no longer needed, the weapon MUST be sold to another dealer or forfeit.
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;44039009]Direct from manufacturer as long as you can: 1) Provide a license to sell arms 2) Show that you can 'potentially' sell to state/government agencys 3) Require the weapon for live demonstration The last two are hilariously broad, but the whole thing requires you to basically own a very successful gunshop(which in turn gets local police interest in your weapons, allowing you to get a letter stating their interest and satisfying the conditions). This is actually one of the more common ways you will see gunshop owners obtain their automatic firearms, for cheap too. It's actually a good system, because once the shop closes or the weapon is no longer needed, the weapon MUST be sold to another dealer or forfeit.[/QUOTE] Then we must create our own gunshop. We will call it the Facepunch Firearms Co. and I am inviting everyone to join me in raising funds for a Kickstarter so we can get this up and running. We'll need about 5 million dollars, but if you donate 100 dollars or more you will be invited to come out and shoot automatic rifles with us. Ukrainian citizens will get a 10% discount on all arms.
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;44038934]Actually it costs $14,000 for a pre-ban M16 or AR with a registered auto sear. Automatic AR15 platforms tend to go for a little more than a grand new, cheaper than their semi-auto counterparts. Once you actually pass the background checks and receive the license and can purchase dealer samples, it's cheap automatics galore. Problem is you have to sell x amount of firearms a year AND turn a profit to maintain the license.[/QUOTE] Ah yes, got it mixed up, but it still takes a while to pass the background checks.
[QUOTE=seano12;44038529]Democracy for all. The right to bear arms is essential. [IMG]http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/files/2014/02/CryingEagle11.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Breddy gud plan you have there spurdo sparde.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44038737]Hundreds have been killed already and police/military are firing.[/QUOTE] Just how many people do you think died? Is that an exaggeration or are you genuinly misinformed?
[QUOTE=seano12;44038636]You act like this isn't happening, but it is in California as Governor Jerry Brown started funding a private police force that is confiscating firearms from people who are deemed 'mentally unfit' to own firearms. The term, of course, is being used in the broadest way possible to the point where if you have unpaid parking tickets you are considered mentally foregone. Source: [url]http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/01/local/la-me-pc-gun-bill-20130501[/url][/QUOTE] I don't know about you, but making sure mentally ill people don't have firearms is a pretty good thing to pursue. Also, that source doesn't say anything about being incapable of owning a gun from not paying a parking ticket.
[QUOTE=stewe231;44040906]I don't know about you, but making sure mentally ill people don't have firearms is a pretty good thing to pursue.[/QUOTE] [quote]The term, of course, is being used in the broadest way possible to the point where if you have unpaid parking tickets you are considered mentally foregone.[/quote] Laws should be made and enforced by the state. Not private or vigilante groups. When that happens those with money become the judge, jury and executioner.
I'm a firm believer in the idea that everyone should have access to firearms, but I think Ukraine should hold off on passing any gun legislation until things stabilise a bit. They just toppled their government and there's all sorts of tension, throwing guns into the mix would be like throwing matches onto a powder keg.
A firearms association looking to help a war-torn country? I see absolutely no way this could possibly go wrong.
[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;44041133]I'm a firm believer in the idea that everyone should have access to firearms, but I think Ukraine should hold off on passing any gun legislation until things stabilise a bit. They just toppled their government and there's all sorts of tension, throwing guns into the mix would be like throwing matches onto a powder keg.[/QUOTE] So wait for things to calm down, let everyone have guns so that the next time any kind of mass protest happens they can skip the sticks and molotovs and get straight into shooting each other? You should probably accept that there are some situations where easy access to firearms is a bad thing, not everywhere is as politically stable as the US.
[QUOTE=Jesliey;44041160]A firearms association looking to help a war-torn country? I see absolutely no way this could possibly go wrong.[/QUOTE] "War-torn".
No never re-implement guns in a country that has had them banned for ages it doesn't work.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44038737]Hundreds have been killed already and police/military are firing into crowds along with snipers shooting civilians and medics for s&g's. The loss of life is pretty severe as it is. You're not going to have a blood-free revolution (see; almost every revolution ever) but at least if the revolutionaries had some armaments they could efficiently fight back, rather than having to use fireworks and molotov cocktails.[/QUOTE] Your trigger finger is more twitchy than a person with Parkinson's suffering a severe tremor attack.
[QUOTE=seano12;44038529]Democracy for all. The right to bear arms is essential. [IMG]http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/files/2014/02/CryingEagle11.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] holy shit if you had the cognitive capacity above cattle you would realize that this would have played out far, far worse if Ukrainians had access to firearms like America does. The death toll would have been unimaginable and it would legitimize the army coming in and clearing up the whole fucking thing. Who thankfully stayed out of all this for the most part. If anything the events in Ukraine proved how bullshit your statement actually is.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;44041461]holy shit if you had the cognitive capacity above cattle you would realize that this would have played out far, far worse if Ukrainians had access to firearms like America does. The death toll would have been unimaginable and it would legitimize the army coming in and clearing up the whole fucking thing. Who thankfully stayed out of all this for the most part. If anything the events in Ukraine proved how bullshit your statement actually is.[/QUOTE] I think his post is overflowing with sarcasm though.
[QUOTE=Clavus;44041478]I think his post is overflowing with sarcasm though.[/QUOTE] even if it was, its hardly an unbelievable position that some posters would be willing to maintain
[QUOTE=seano12;44038636]You act like this isn't happening, but it is in California as Governor Jerry Brown started funding a private police force that is confiscating firearms from people who are deemed 'mentally unfit' to own firearms. The term, of course, is being used in the broadest way possible to the point where if you have unpaid parking tickets you are considered mentally foregone. Source: [url]http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/01/local/la-me-pc-gun-bill-20130501[/url][/QUOTE] Where does it say anything about unpaid parking tickets in there? [editline]25th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Clavus;44041478]I think his post is overflowing with sarcasm though.[/QUOTE] His following posts seem to be defending guns though. If you're going to make an ironic post, it shouldn't be of a view you actually hold.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;44041461] If anything the events in Ukraine proved how bullshit your statement actually is.[/QUOTE] The joke went over your head like sputnik
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;44039902]Just how many people do you think died? Is that an exaggeration or are you genuinly misinformed?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/world/europe/ukraine.html"][quote]The sights of bullet-riddled bodies slumped amid smoldering debris, some of them shot in the head, and screaming medics carrying the dead and wounded to emergency clinics, including one in a hotel lobby, shocked the country and the world. The opposition said that at least 70 and as many as 100 people had been killed, while municipal authorities put the day’s death toll at 39.[/quote][/URL]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;44041461]holy shit if you had the cognitive capacity above cattle you would realize that this would have played out far, far worse if Ukrainians had access to firearms like America does. The death toll would have been unimaginable and it would legitimize the army coming in and clearing up the whole fucking thing. Who thankfully stayed out of all this for the most part. If anything the events in Ukraine proved how bullshit your statement actually is.[/QUOTE] imagine those Svoboda or Right Sector thugs with military hardware instead of air rifles. eugh, doesn't bear thinking about
You don't need guns they said. The government will never be tyrannical or oppress the people they said. :v: Perhaps it would have been worse, or perhaps the government would have seen swarms of armed people in the streets and decide to back off. The world may never know. But do continue to look into your crystal ball and tell me how much worse it would have been if the people were armed enough to fight back.
[QUOTE=UziXxX;44042366]You don't need guns they said. The government will never be tyrannical or oppress the people they said. :v: Perhaps it would have been worse, or perhaps the government would have seen swarms of armed people in the streets and decide to back off. The world may never know.[/QUOTE] Nah, pretty sure when the 'gubment saw swathes of armed rebels they would have been able to justify more extreme force and just fucking annihilated them without the international community batting an eyelid. If the government is already tyrannical, guns aren't going to stop them.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44042399]Nah, pretty sure when the 'gubment saw swathes of armed rebels they would have been able to justify more extreme force and just fucking annihilated them without the international community batting an eyelid. If the government is already tyrannical, guns aren't going to stop them.[/QUOTE] It's all up to personal opinion, but I believe the right to be free is a more noble cause than preservation of one's self. But if push comes to shove comes to falling down the stairs, sometimes you have to shoot back when someone is taking shots at you. If that comes at a terrible cost, as unfortunate and horrible as it is, so be it. It's the only way people stay free.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44042031][URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/world/europe/ukraine.html"][/URL][/QUOTE] Forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe "as many as 100" is less than "hundreds"
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;44042445]Forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe "as many as 100" is less than "hundreds"[/QUOTE] That article was written 5 days ago and last I heard, the police still weren't playing nice. No doubt that it's risen by a few dozen bodies. Not to mention that well over a 1,000 people have been wounded so far.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44042520]That article was written 5 days ago and last I heard, the police still weren't playing nice. No doubt that it's risen by a few dozen bodies. Not to mention that well over a 1,000 people have been wounded so far.[/QUOTE] You said dead, now you change the goal posts. [QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44038737]Hundreds have been killed already and police/military are firing into crowds[/QUOTE] Any numbers or statistics on those "dozens" who have died since then. Do you have any statistics at all?
[QUOTE=UziXxX;44042441]It's all up to personal opinion, but I believe the right to be free is a more noble cause than one's self. But if push comes to shove comes to falling down the stairs, sometimes you have to shoot back when someone is taking shots at you. If that comes at a terrible cost, as unfortunate and horrible as it is, so be it. It's the only way people stay free.[/QUOTE] so because [I][B]FREEDOM[/B][/I] you're saying that the preferable outcome would have been protesters being shot down en masse by government forces and the world at large refusing to give a fuck about it gotcha
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