Trayvon Martin Case: New video shows no blood or bruises on Zimmerman
105 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Laferio;35339792]seeing as you've got the experience of being dropped on your head I can see where you're coming from.[/QUOTE]
okay i have to admit.
that was a good one.
amazingly rude, but still good.
Can anyone confirm this isn't the arrest tapes from when he first was arrested 6 years ago? I doubt it is, but you never know.
[QUOTE=Noble;35338432]He was treated at the scene by paramedics so I don't understand what exactly this video proves if you can't see blood on his face? Not to mention the quality is not the best and you can't really get a detailed look at his nose or his back because of the angle. It seems that a lot of people are getting too attached to their original opinions of what they think happened and this thread seems to be an example of confirmation bias. There isn't enough information about what happened in this incident, and no reason right now to take any other position than a neutral one.
There's too much personal speculation, biased opinions, and logical fallacies going on here. Like this part in the OP:[/QUOTE]
uhm, speaking as a EMT, the head has more blood vessels, meaning it's going to bleed more and coagulate slower, if he was in as much danger as you people keep presenting him as, he would at the very least have some remnants of blood on him.
There is no pressure dressing or bandage, no visible scar, he's walking around fine, does not have a concussion, did not go into neurogenic shock, hypoxia or even show any signs of disorientation which is pretty fucking key if you had your brain jumbled around. If his head was being smashed into the concrete, which seems strange seeing as they originally claimed it was on grass and used evidence for that, then one of two things would have happened. First, he would have experienced a concussive or internal injury, he did not. Second, he would have had some sort of laceration, abrasion, or REALLY minor scalp avulsion. He did not. At the least, he would have had some dressing on his head if the paramedics had arrived to treat him.
This guy looks better than any patient I've seen who has gone through half of his supposed traumatic injuries.
As for getting attached to original opinions? I dunno, I could be wrong here, but the fact that Martin's defence has stayed accurate and consistent, and Zimmerman's has been shown to be full of so many fucking holes I can sink the entire US navy with, then yeah, I'm kinda attached to the original opinion.
I've seen very short shots that I've recorded when you can notice a huge bruise on top of Zimmerman's head, along with a picture of his face which shows his nose is distorted and dis positioned.
This shit is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Laferio;35339792]actually yeah, you don't bleed much around the back of your head/scalp. I can't exactly say personal experience, but seeing as you've got the experience of being dropped on your head I can see where you're coming from.[/QUOTE]
You do actually. Blood vessels go around your head.
Not AS severe as the face. But highly open to wider bleeding. Also, may I point out, the skin is thinner than the rest of your body, and doesn't have much support under except for the musculoskeletal system. The epidermis will split easier.
This is an accurate Resin casting reconstruction of blood vessels done in Germany.
[IMG]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lffhk9IPH41qa6reco1_r1_500.png[/IMG]
[editline]29th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35339878]I've seen very short shots that I've recorded when you can notice a huge bruise on top of Zimmerman's head, along with a picture of his face which shows his nose is distorted and dis positioned.
This shit is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
If you're implying there's a contusion on his head, then you're mistaken, on top of swelling, it would be clear as day. The skin would be darkened and that shine from his bald spot wouldn't be there.
[QUOTE=Laferio;35339792]actually yeah, you don't bleed much around the back of your head/scalp. I can't exactly say personal experience, but seeing as you've got the experience of being dropped on your head I can see where you're coming from.[/QUOTE]
oh man
you really got me there
are you going to masturbate to making a "lol u were dropped frum ur hed" joke? I'm sure your mother would be proud.
And yes, you [I]don't[/I] bleed much from your head. If you don't have a brain. So I guess [I]you[/I] don't bleed much from your head.
Notice how this entire post is pointless, stupid, and filled with ad hominems? Instead of actual points?
Like your posts are?
Yeah. Posts like these don't belong in discussions.
So please, come back to the discussion when you aren't a manchild.
I'll wait a few years.
[editline]28th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35339878]I've seen very short shots that I've recorded when you can notice a huge bruise on top of Zimmerman's head, along with a picture of his face which shows his nose is distorted and dis positioned.
This shit is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
So...
Can we [I]see[/I] these shots?
I'm sure they would be incredibly helpful for this discussion.
[QUOTE=MR-X;35338801]Also bruises take a while to appear, it depends on how hard you've been hit.
[/QUOTE]
Not entirely. Contusions, depending on the deepness of the impact and damage done to the tissue, can sprout in the time frame of 30 minutes to a week. If he was getting his ass beat as bad as he said he was, on top of the other things I mentioned, he'd most likely have a visible contusion.
Due to a shooting, won't the EMT's treat Zimmerman on scene before sending him off with law enforcement? I think that they cleaned him up and he was not wounded enough to still be bleeding. At the same time, I don't see much bruising for what is being called a broken nose.
I still have no real position on this case, there are parts where emotion take over reasoning making it difficult. Because I don't think this is racially motivated, at least only racially motivated. It could be that Zimmerman has been dying to be hailed as a hero or even possibly just get carried away with intimidating some poor kid. And with the video, I didn't expect blood everywhere since EMT's would treat him at the scene and clean him up, but also it doesn't appear that his nose is bruised or even damaged in any way to be considered broken.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35339482]Now, the bigger question is: Why did the police not take pictures of Zimmerman on the scene? They are generally supposed to. Maybe they just haven't released the pictures to the public.[/quote]
They were also supposed to take drug and alcohol tests, and they didn't.
[quote]Do the paramedics attest to this? If so, they are pretty much the ultimate source on whether Zimmerman was bloodied up or not, and how badly.[/QUOTE]
We are not allowed to divulge information on patients. Do not expect anything from those paramedics unless Zimmerman gives his consent.
[QUOTE=Last or First;35339950]
And yes, you [I]don't[/I] bleed much from your head. If you don't have a brain. So I guess [I]you[/I] don't bleed much from your head.[/QUOTE]
Your brain is on the [I]inside[/I] of your skull. Outside of your skull is nothing but skin(like I said before). A cut on the top of your head won't bleed very much at all, and if it does it stops in a few seconds. It doesn't even leave a mark. It might have a little hairline scab but if you clean it up you can't even tell if you got cut up.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;35340001]Due to a shooting, won't the EMT's treat Zimmerman on scene before sending him off with law enforcement? I think that they cleaned him up and he was not wounded enough to still be bleeding. At the same time, I don't see much bruising for what is being called a broken nose.
I still have no real position on this case, there are parts where emotion take over reasoning making it difficult. Because I don't think this is racially motivated, at least only racially motivated. It could be that Zimmerman has been dying to be hailed as a hero or even possibly just get carried away with intimidating some poor kid. And with the video, I didn't expect blood everywhere since EMT's would treat him at the scene and clean him up, but also it doesn't appear that his nose is bruised or even damaged in any way to be considered broken.[/QUOTE]
I explained some of your questions in my above posts. Not sure if they help.
[editline]29th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35340011]Your brain is on the [I]inside[/I] of your skull. Outside of your skull is nothing but skin(like I said before). A cut on the top of your head won't bleed very much at all, and if it does it stops in a few seconds. It doesn't even leave a mark. It might have a little hairline scab but if you clean it up you can't even tell if you got cut up.[/QUOTE]
lmao, you have no idea what you're talking about.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35340008]They were also supposed to take drug and alcohol tests, and they didn't.[/quote]
Really? They rarely do that, to be honest.
[quote]We are not allowed to divulge information on patients. Do not expect anything from those paramedics unless Zimmerman gives his consent.[/QUOTE]
It would be in Zimmerman's best interest to give consent if he is innocent.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35340011]Your brain is on the [I]inside[/I] of your skull. Outside of your skull is nothing but skin(like I said before). A cut on the top of your head won't bleed very much at all, and if it does it stops in a few seconds. It doesn't even leave a mark. It might have a little hairline scab but if you clean it up you can't even tell if you got cut up.[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;axpvvyqjiWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axpvvyqjiWg[/video]
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35340013]
lmao, you have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I don't think [I]you[/I] have an idea what you're talking about in this case. Your picture even proves my point. There isn't jack shit in the way of blood vessels on the top or back of your head. I've cut myself shaving my head, I've had my head slammed into shit. I've had my head cut with glass and knives before.
Your face will swell up, bleed, and become unrecognizable. Your head will look like nothing ever fucking happened in less than an hour.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35340024]Really? They rarely do that, to be honest.[/quote]
uh no, they don't. It's standard operating procedure. I know that because of two reasons. One, here, my neighbour, a detective, and my friend, a police officer, both confirm it. And for regional questions, the news a while back confirmed Sanford does this as standard procedure.
[quote]It would be in Zimmerman's best interest to give consent if he is innocent.[/QUOTE]
It would be in the best interest for Zimmerman to do a lot of things if he's innocent. IE at least attempt to apologise to the family and show some fucking humanity.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35340036]Sorry, I don't think [I]you[/I] have an idea what you're talking about in this case. Your picture even proves my point. There isn't jack shit in the way of blood vessels on the top or back of your head. I've cut myself shaving my head, I've had my head slammed into shit. I've had my head cut with glass and knives before.
Your face will swell up, bleed, and become unrecognizable. Your head will look like nothing ever fucking happened in less than an hour.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think you may be partially blind. I've seen, and had the head bleed from all sorts of wounds throughout the years. It doesn't bleed as horribly as the face, but it does get pretty severe.
Again, that's just ONE part of the inconsistency of this. If this is a case where his head doesn't have vasodilation, then okay, what about EVERYTHING else?
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35340071]uh no, they don't. It's standard operating procedure. I know that because of two reasons. One, here, my neighbour, a detective, and my friend, a police officer, both confirm it. And for regional questions, the news a while back confirmed Sanford does this as standard procedure. [/quote]
I've been arrested while drunk and on drugs and I've [I]never[/I] had a blood test done on me. It may be my hospital deciding to half-ass everything. That's just my first hand experience.
[quote]It would be in the best interest for Zimmerman to do a lot of things if he's innocent. IE at least attempt to apologise to the family and show some fucking humanity.[/quote]
I don't think it's really in his best interest to make himself more public than he already is. Everyone thinks he's a murderer and his life is actually in danger.
[quote]Yeah, I think you may be partially blind. I've seen, and had the head bleed from all sorts of wounds throughout the years. It doesn't bleed as horribly as the face, but it does get pretty severe.[/quote]
Like I said. It might bleed pretty bad for a minute, but after it closes up, the wound is practically invisible.
[quote]Again, that's just ONE part of the inconsistency of this. If this is a case where his head doesn't have vasodilation, then okay, what about EVERYTHING else?[/QUOTE]
I don't know. If the police took pictures, hopefully they will be released sometime soon. If the paramedics know anything, hopefully they will be allowed to release information soon. We don't have all the information in the story. I hope it gets sorted through, but to claim that Zimmerman is a cold blooded killer, or that he was just defending himself are both big assumptions for us to make.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35340106]Like I said. It might bleed pretty bad for a minute, but after it closes up, the wound is practically invisible.[/QUOTE]
See, this is another problem with the video.
Let's assume that Zimmerman [I]didn't[/I] bleed that much from his head, and that it would, in fact, stop bleeding pretty quickly.
Why would it randomly start bleeding again at that part of the video? It's not like it was still bleeding by the time the video started, whenever you see the back of his head, you don't see anything. But at that one second, it somehow opens back up and starts bleeding again.
Either it closed up, he was still bleeding, or [I]he wasn't bleeding in the first place.[/I] You can't have it so that it's closed up and then starts bleeding again for no reason, especially if that point in time is right when the tangent plane to the back of his head matches up with the light source.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35340106]I've been arrested while drunk and on drugs and I've [I]never[/I] had a blood test done on me. It may be my hospital deciding to half-ass everything. That's just my first hand experience.[/quote]
It's incorrect procedure, but I don't think too many people give a shit with DUI's. Murder though, yeah, you fucking bet they will. TBH, the two guys I asked also have first hand as they're the ones who are supposed to get the results.
[quote]I don't think it's really in his best interest to make himself more public than he already is. Everyone thinks he's a murderer and his life is actually in danger.[/quote]
He's had a long long time to show some manner of sympathy.
[quote]Like I said. It might bleed pretty bad for a minute, but after it closes up, the wound is practically invisible.[/quote]
Depends on the person. I can tell by seemingly everything in my training and experience that he did not, at all, have a life-threatening traumatic wound on the back of his head like he claims he did. There are so many other signs that he could have shown LT trauma. He has absolutely NONE of them.
[quote]I don't know. If the police took pictures, hopefully they will be released sometime soon. If the paramedics know anything, hopefully they will be allowed to release information soon. We don't have all the information in the story. I hope it gets sorted through, but to claim that Zimmerman is a cold blooded killer, or that he was just defending himself are both big assumptions for us to make.[/QUOTE]
The information you will receive if it so desired to be released, will be from the PCR. The paramedics, which I don't even know why paramedics were called to the scene if he was this okay, are done with, you won't hear from the. These are legal documents, do NOT expect them to be released.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35340217]
Depends on the person. I can tell by seemingly everything in my training and experience that he did not, at all, have a life-threatening traumatic wound on the back of his head like he claims he did. There are so many other signs that he could have shown LT trauma. He has absolutely NONE of them.[/quote]
Yea, I doubt he suffered anything serious. However, even if he didn't, that doesn't 100% mean he wasn't in fear of his life. It just makes it a bit harder to argue.
[quote]The information you will receive if it so desired to be released, will be from the PCR. The paramedics, which I don't even know why paramedics were called to the scene if he was this okay, are done with, you won't hear from the. These are legal documents, do NOT expect them to be released.[/QUOTE]
Yea, well if it goes to trial, all this information will become public knowledge. It really does need to go to trial, or at least an omnibus to tell if the evidence is enough to warrant an actual trial. This has gotten too much public attention to just fade into obscurity.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35340355]Yea, I doubt he suffered anything serious. However, even if he didn't, that doesn't 100% mean he wasn't in fear of his life. It just makes it a bit harder to argue.
Yea, well if it goes to trial, all this information will become public knowledge. It really does need to go to trial, or at least an omnibus to tell if the evidence is enough to warrant an actual trial. This has gotten too much public attention to just fade into obscurity.[/QUOTE]
I doubt a jury will go for a scratch on his head as an excuse for murder.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35340392]I doubt a jury will go for a scratch on his head as an excuse for murder.[/QUOTE]
I don't know. Like I said, we got to wait for the trial, and we have to see all the evidence.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35340011]Your brain is on the [I]inside[/I] of your skull. Outside of your skull is nothing but skin(like I said before). A cut on the top of your head won't bleed very much at all, and if it does it stops in a few seconds. It doesn't even leave a mark. It might have a little hairline scab but if you clean it up you can't even tell if you got cut up.[/QUOTE]
Wrong. The head bleeds massive amounts from even small cuts. Get a serious cut on your head and it'll look like an awful lot of blood. It's not life threatening generally, but it's a lot of blood.
Just think about how many veins and small arteries have to run around your head to make the skin work
you use so much anecdotal shit to support your arguments
[QUOTE=Hidole555;35340031][video=youtube;axpvvyqjiWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axpvvyqjiWg[/video][/QUOTE]Before someone points out that WWE stuff is fake: When a fight calls for someone to start bleeding, the person who has to get his shit ruined hides a small blade somewhere on his person before the match. If the blow that's supposed to make him start bleeding doesn't actually do so, he'll take the time when he's on the ground holding his face to sneakily cut himself on the scalp/forehead.
So even if part of this is fake, it's not the part you [i]think[/i] would be.
[QUOTE=Pennywise;35340624]Before someone points put that WWE stuff is fake: When a fight calls for someone to start bleeding, the person who has to get his shit ruined hides a small blade somewhere on his person before the match. If the blow that's supposed to make him start bleeding doesn't actually do so, he'll take the time when he's on the ground holding his face to sneakily cut himself on the scalp/forehead.
So even if part of this is fake, it's not the part you [i]think[/i] would be.[/QUOTE]
:wtc:
[QUOTE=Pennywise;35340624]Before someone points put that WWE stuff is fake: When a fight calls for someone to start bleeding, the person who has to get his shit ruined hides a small blade somewhere on his person before the match. If the blow that's supposed to make him start bleeding doesn't actually do so, he'll take the time when he's on the ground holding his face to sneakily cut himself on the scalp/forehead.
So even if part of this is fake, it's not the part you [i]think[/i] would be.[/QUOTE]
still badass
the plot thickens.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35341246]:wtc:[/QUOTE]Yeah, while the actual events and such in WWE are entirely fake, they do incur a lot of injuries on the job.
A cut on your head, especially the scalp, actually bleeds more than you would realize. Just a small cut can bleed like a stuck pig, especially above your forehead
I so said that the witness was lieing when he first came out, but for some reason I thought he was paid off.
How long can these cases take?
Zimmerman, a fat-ass neighborhood watch, shot and killed a young black man because he thought he was trespassing, even though they both lived in the neighborhood.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;35342463]How long can these cases take?
Zimmerman, a fat-ass neighborhood watch, shot and killed a young black man because he thought he was trespassing, even though they both lived in the neighborhood.[/QUOTE]
This pretty much sums up the average person's understanding of the details of this case
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