She was injured, unable to move. She was covered in foam (which is where the Fire Department is rightfully at fault) then hit by a truck which had no chance of seeing her, due to the foam. Do you need me to draw you a picture?
From what it sounds like it wasn't anyone's fault, just a sad part of the chaos that happened there.
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41525372]She was injured, unable to move. She was covered in foam, (this is where the Fire Department is at fault) then hit by a truck which had no chance of seeing her, due to the foam. Do you need me to draw you a picture?[/QUOTE]
How about don't drive through foam pile..... ???? How about[B] DON'T SPRAY FOAM ON A SURVIVOR[/B]? Why does no one think this??????!?!?
Again, why is no one like, "Hey they did spray foam on her, obscuring her, and then run her over, so it is technically their fault" why is no one blaming the people who sprayed foam carelessly.... yeah we can't pinpoint them, so punish the entire fire team, sorry guys but thats how it is.
[B]If they didn't fight the fire carelessly they could have saved the only survivor[/B], k I am done.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525369]Lets be [B]logical [/B]for a second.. it is the person who ran the girl over, or the person who began spraying foam CARELESSLY not watching where it landed who are actually at fault.....
Someone DID do this and I think all the firefighters should have to pass tests again at the very least.
Lets also be [B]real [/B]for a second, they could have not fought the fire at all, just got this girl to safety and the situation would have been better, it makes me sick that they fought a fire just to put it out while the only survivor is dying because of how careless you are spraying foam @ the fire..... :([/QUOTE]
You really need to calm down a bit and react with logic, not emotion. When you spray foam, you spray it everywhere, if he sprayed above where she was, it could have covered her, the article states they are firing on approach, it is possible the driver did not see her at all due to the foam covering.
Blame the driver for being attentive of moving objects like people rather than road conditions(on a vehicle that can take crappy roads none the less) and get closer to the incident to be most effective? Or blame the foam shooter for trying to contain the fire faster and following protocol.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525419]How about don't drive through foam pile..... ???? How about[B] DON'T SPRAY FOAM ON A SURVIVOR[/B]? Why does no one think this??????!?!?
Again, why is no one like, "Hey they did spray foam on her, obscuring her, and then run her over, so it is technically their fault" why is no one blaming the people who sprayed foam carelessly.... yeah we can't pinpoint them, so punish the entire fire team, sorry guys but thats how it is.
[B]If they didn't fight the fire carelessly they could have saved the only survivor[/B], k I am done.[/QUOTE]
They don't spray foam carelessly, they spray it anywhere there is a fire hazard. Guess what, the fuel in that plane that is now on the ground, you know what that is? A fire hazard, the foam prevents the spread of the fire by covering it and insulating it from heat.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525419]
If they didn't fight the fire they could have saved the only survivor, k I am done.[/QUOTE]
No one thinks like you because if we did we would have all burned to death by now. I did point out where they were at fault, you ignored it so you could continue to whine about how hard it is to be so much better and more intelligent than everyone else.
Now throw your little fit somewhere else, I'm done taking you seriously after you honestly claimed that people would be better off if they didn't control the fire. Because this one death is infinitely more tragic than a plane full of people burning to death. You're right, stupid firefighters always fighting fires. Assholes.
[QUOTE=deadoon;41525460]You really need to calm down a bit and react with logic, not emotion. When you spray foam, you spray it everywhere, if he sprayed above where she was, it could have covered her[/QUOTE]
When you spray foam you are supposed to look where it goes, where it lands etc... so the guy who fucking didn't do this killed her :/ no way around it
Yeah its nice to say its no ones fault(Sorry this is real life, not a fairy tale), but yeah its the firefighters who sprayed foam carelessly, as I have said 3 times. Have all firefighters that were there re take all physical tests and exams [B]period[/B].
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41525466]No one thinks like you because if we did we would have all burned to death by now. I did point out where they were at fault, you ignored it so you could continue to whine about how hard it is to be so much better and more intelligent than everyone else.
Now throw your little fit somewhere else, I'm done taking you seriously after you honestly claimed that people would be better off if they didn't control the fire. Because this one death is infinitely more tragic than a plane full of people burning to death. You're right, stupid firefighter always fighting fires. Assholes.[/QUOTE]
^Nice fit you just threw? lol w/e dude get mature. You joke about the fire. You defend their actions when they saved not one person in the plane with their actions, in fact they KILLED a person outside the plane.... You are throwing the fit not me, its just capslock it does not meen I am throwing a fit get over it.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525487]When you spray foam you are supposed to look where it goes, where it lands etc... so the guy who fucking didn't do this killed her. :/[/QUOTE]
No, you're not, at all. When your priority is controlling a fire you focus on controlling a fire, or hundreds more may die. The odds of a person being in the direct area they were spraying were so miniscule that it doesn't register when there's a plane burning.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525369]Lets be [B]logical [/B]for a second.. it is the person who ran the girl over, or the person who began spraying foam CARELESSLY not watching where it landed who are actually at fault.....
Someone DID do this and I think all the firefighters should have to pass tests again at the very least.
Lets also be [B]real [/B]for a second, they could have not fought the fire at all, just got this girl to safety and the situation would have been better, it makes me sick that they fought a fire just to put it out while the only survivor is dying because of how careless you are spraying foam @ the fire..... :([/QUOTE]
Y'know for someone who uses the word "logic" as much as you do you really seem to lack it.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525419]How about don't drive through foam pile..... ???? How about[B] DON'T SPRAY FOAM ON A SURVIVOR[/B]? Why does no one think this??????!?!?
Again, why is no one like, "Hey they did spray foam on her, obscuring her, and then run her over, so it is technically their fault" why is no one blaming the people who sprayed foam carelessly.... yeah we can't pinpoint them, so punish the entire fire team, sorry guys but thats how it is.
[B]If they didn't fight the fire carelessly they could have saved the only survivor[/B], k I am done.[/QUOTE]
What if, I don't know, they [I]couldn't see the fucking survivor in the middle of an airplane crash?[/I]
After all, the article clearly points out that foam is used to put out the fire, [I]and to make a escape path for other survivors[/I]
And is technically their fault. So what? Accidents happen. They shouldn't lose their jobs because they accidentally killed someone while responding to an emergency.
And finally, she wasn't the only survivor. There were others. 304 to be precise
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525487]When you spray foam you are supposed to look where it goes, where it lands etc... so the guy who fucking didn't do this killed her :/ no way around it
Yeah its nice to say its no ones fault(Sorry this is real life, not a fairy tale), but yeah its the firefighters who sprayed foam carelessly, as I have said 3 times. Have all firefighters that were there re take all physical tests and exams [B]period[/B].[/QUOTE]
Read the extended reply, punishment wise, they are likely going to be on paid leave/desk duty until the investigation and internal decisions are made, and the best you can hope for is a change in protocols.
If this has been the protocol for a minimum of 35 years(as evidenced by this never occurring in that period of time, with this guy as fire chief), then the protocol is at the very least safe under normal conditions and such.
[QUOTE]
^Nice fit you just threw? lol w/e dude get mature. You joke about the fire. You defend their actions when they saved not one person in the plane with their actions, in fact they KILLED a person outside the plane.... You are throwing the fit not me, its just capslock it does not meen I am throwing a fit get over it.[/QUOTE]
What if they didn't contain that fire, and it ended up with a fuel air explosion killing everyone at the scene? Bang over 300 people dead because they didn't contain the fumes fast enough.
So you guys don't think any of these firefighters, who literally killed this girl are at fault, and they shouldn't even be re evaluated or re tested ok cool.
I sure as hell hope they never come to put a fire out in my neighborhood.
They might want to put the fire out so bad they bury kids etc in foam and then have a super fun time driving through the foam like assholes.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525487]When you spray foam you are supposed to look where it goes, where it lands etc... so the guy who fucking didn't do this killed her :/ no way around it
Yeah its nice to say its no ones fault(Sorry this is real life, not a fairy tale), but yeah its the firefighters who sprayed foam carelessly, as I have said 3 times. Have all firefighters that were there re take all physical tests and exams [B]period[/B].
^Nice fit you just threw? lol w/e dude get mature. You joke about the fire. You defend their actions when they saved not one person in the plane with their actions, in fact they KILLED a person outside the plane.... You are throwing the fit not me, its just capslock it does not meen I am throwing a fit get over it.[/QUOTE]
304 fucking survivors. Those heroes saved 304 people. Do you not understand what defines a survivor compared to a victim? Are you really that stupid?
^Still throwing fits I see.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525369]Lets be [B]logical [/B]for a second.. it is the person who ran the girl over, or the person who began spraying foam CARELESSLY not watching where it landed who are actually at fault.....
Someone DID do this and I think all the firefighters should have to pass tests again at the very least.
Lets also be [B]real [/B]for a second, they could have not fought the fire at all, just got this girl to safety and the situation would have been better, it makes me sick that they fought a fire just to put it out while the only survivor is dying because of how careless you are spraying foam @ the fire..... :([/QUOTE]
bolding random words makes you sound more intelligent!!!! it's not like the fire would've killed anybody else if they just let it spread!!!!
also i suppose you are a pro fire fighter and not just some fat neckbeard sitting on the internet saying how you would've totally done it better!
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525271]Oh my god that is not the point.....
The point is to take them out of the position where they might make that mistake again..... if a doctor has ONLY killed patients in surgery at some point they wont let that jackass try again, how do you think these guys should be fighting fires still LOL SO FUCKING DUMB
I do not want these dudes driving fire trucks. Take every driver and fire them first step. They dont even know who did it such amateurs.
Edit: I have lived near and in San Fran my whole life and this story makes me sick.[/QUOTE]
Oh my god, learn how things work in the real world instead of some made up rules you have in your head.
Doctors accidentally kill people all the time, its just part of the job. At some point in a surgeons career they are bound to make a mistake that leads to a persons death.
[editline]19th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525536]So you guys don't think any of these firefighters, who literally killed this girl are at fault, and they shouldn't even be re evaluated or re tested ok cool.
I sure as hell hope they never come to put a fire out in my neighborhood.
They might want to put the fire out so bad they bury kids etc in foam and then have a super fun time driving through the foam like assholes.[/QUOTE]
This has to be a trolling attempt.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41525555]Oh my god, learn how things work in the real world instead of some made up rules you have in your head.
Doctors accidentally kill people all the time, its just part of the job. At some point in a surgeons career they are bound to make a mistake that leads to a persons death.[/QUOTE]
My example was of a doctor that has ONLY killed patients, but whatevs
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525536]So you guys don't think any of these firefighters, who literally killed this girl are at fault, and they shouldn't even be re evaluated or re tested ok cool.
I sure as hell hope they never come to put a fire out in my neighborhood.
They might want to put the fire out so bad they bury kids etc in foam and then have a super fun time driving through the foam like assholes.[/QUOTE]
Buzz-words buzz-words buzz-words. Kid assholes fun. Seriously, argue logically or not at all is all I am asking.
Yes they are at they are the cause, but is it their fault?
If a guy jumps out between to cars while you are driving and you run him over, killing him, you caused their death, but who's fault is it? Is it his fault for not hearing your car? Or is it your fault for running him over?
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525580]My example was of a doctor that has ONLY killed patients, but whatevs[/QUOTE]
Where does it say that these guys haven't saved people before or even in this incident? Just because one person died by their actions does not mean they have not saved others.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525580]My example was of a doctor that has ONLY killed patients, but whatevs[/QUOTE]
Gold member that joined 4 days ago.
Keeps continuing to fight without any form of arguments.
Jesus, that username.
I've never bit so hard on such an obvious shit troll. Shameful. Move along people.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525536]So you guys don't think any of these firefighters, who literally killed this girl are at fault, and they shouldn't even be re evaluated or re tested ok cool.
I sure as hell hope they never come to put a fire out in my neighborhood.
They might want to put the fire out so bad they bury kids etc in foam and then have a super fun time driving through the foam like assholes.[/QUOTE]
Wow, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Firefighters arrive, chunks of metal, fire, debris everywhere, there a black thing over there that looks like more debris, some foam gets on it, firemen drive over to some other place, driving over tons of debris, turns out that peice of debri with some foam over it was a body.
Go back to the rust forum and bitch for more keys.
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525580]My example was of a doctor that has ONLY killed patients, but whatevs[/QUOTE]
a doctor that only kills patients would've never gotten a license, in the first place
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41525605]Gold member that joined 4 days ago.
Keeps continuing to fight without any form of arguments.
Jesus, that username.
I've never bit so hard on such an obvious shit troll. Shameful. Move along people.[/QUOTE]
But it's fun to argue with trolls, atleast I find it fun.
Well this is an unfortunate turn of events. I can only imagine what the family of the girl and the firefighter that killed her are going through. Even if it was an accident it doesn't come guilt free.
( just so you know I mean feeling guilty)
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525369]Lets be [B]logical [/B]for a second.. it is the person who ran the girl over, or the person who began spraying foam CARELESSLY not watching where it landed who are actually at fault.....
Someone DID do this and I think all the firefighters should have to pass tests again at the very least.
Lets also be [B]real [/B]for a second, they could have not fought the fire at all, just got this girl to safety and the situation would have been better, it makes me sick that they fought a fire just to put it out while the only survivor is dying because of how careless you are spraying foam @ the fire..... :([/QUOTE]
your name fits really well.
Why did they spray the foam? the tarmac was covered in plane fuel, which burns at at least 2000 degrees farenheit. When you are fighting fires at that temperature you don't fuck around, you spray everything that could ignite so it doesn't. They weren't careless, they were cautious. They saved a bunch of other people that way.
Why are you even arguing with an obvious troll? Just report and move on
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525536]So you guys don't think any of these firefighters, who literally killed this girl are at fault, and they shouldn't even be re evaluated or re tested ok cool.
I sure as hell hope they never come to put a fire out in my neighborhood.
They might want to put the fire out so bad they bury kids etc in foam and then have a super fun time driving through the foam like assholes.[/QUOTE]
This is an irrational point of view. You act as if they deliberately killed her
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525419]How about don't drive through foam pile..... ???? How about[B] DON'T SPRAY FOAM ON A SURVIVOR[/B]? Why does no one think this??????!?!?
Again, why is no one like, "Hey they did spray foam on her, obscuring her, and then run her over, so it is technically their fault" why is no one blaming the people who sprayed foam carelessly.... yeah we can't pinpoint them, so punish the entire fire team, sorry guys but thats how it is.
[B]If they didn't fight the fire carelessly they could have saved the only survivor[/B], k I am done.[/QUOTE]
Airport firefighting trucks are designed to be extremely fast responders. They can often be operated completely solo and can frequently scale a four or five foot sheer ledge in order to reach their target. They are impressive vehicles, but also have limited visibility when using the foam cannon mounted on the roof. Years ago in high school I had an aerospace class that would take a trip to the local air port and one of our stops was the fire department for the air port. They let us play with the cannons on the trucks. Those things put a fuckload of foam down range and a lot of it is dispersed by the wind. So even if you know what you are shooting at, the giant vacuum inducing fireball of jet fuel in front of you is going to spray foam EVERYWHERE. No amount of skill or finesse is likely going to keep the foam all where you want it.
It was a freak accident in a bad plane crash. Get over yourself.
[QUOTE=demoguy08;41523348]That's horrible and unfortunate, but I can't really put the blame on the rescue personnel. Imagine the chaos at the crash site.[/QUOTE]
Can't blame them, can blame the higher ups (you can spot them by their big paychecks and complete lack of emergency, fire, and medical knowledge and training).
They should have been given the opportunity to train for situations like this.
There are plenty of good coordinators and consultants who could have made them a plan and drilled them on it in training.
The people at fault are probably too incompetent and ignorant to even realize that they're responsible for this death and the feelings of guilt borne by the innocent responders.
[editline]20th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=tryhard;41525536]So you guys don't think any of these firefighters, who literally killed this girl are at fault, and they shouldn't even be re evaluated or re tested ok cool.
I sure as hell hope they never come to put a fire out in my neighborhood.
They might want to put the fire out so bad they bury kids etc in foam and then have a super fun time driving through the foam like assholes.[/QUOTE]
Yep, who else can you blame but those damn hose pullers?
Incompetent greedy assholes. They only do their jobs for the great pay, the lack of any risk whatsoever, the easy and short training, the lack of constant continuing Ed that they'd surely receive adequate help with/payment for, and the mental health benefits of seeing all the beautiful things they come across in the job......they really must just be in it for the fun, huh?
the captain said he seen like a flashing light blinding him
also this is a Korean flight with Chinese in it and the death of that girl with all the different stories
i feel like theres more to this than meets the eye
[QUOTE=arimi;41533567]the captain said he seen like a flashing light blinding him
also this is a Korean flight with Chinese in it and the death of that girl with all the different stories [B]
i feel like theres more to this than meets the ey[/B]e[/QUOTE]
Person of interest
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Inferno5.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=arimi;41533567]the captain said he seen like a flashing light blinding him [/QUOTE]
Ehhh I don't buy this at all. He simply came in too low and too slow. I was talking to my dad about this (he is a pilot for Delta Airlines), he was telling what happened was the the autoland system went down, so the pilots were forced to land the plane by hand. They simply fucked up the landing; approached too slow and fell like a rock. The tail hit the seawall just before the runway. Here is a reconstruction:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWkFYT8EGUs[/media]
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