Lockheed Martin sues Pentagon over decision to award Oshkosh, not them, the JLTV contract - Polidicks

Didn't they also sue when the Pentagon gave some of ula's launch contracts to space-x

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49353992] Rich people can do whatever they want to poor people and bank on them not being willing to hire lawyers and risk it[/QUOTE] This is the exception, Lockheed probably has a hefty clique of lawyers being paid big bux to represent them no matter what.

[QUOTE=Scorpo;49354299]they should just upgrade the Humvees instead of buying new vehicles imo anyway uh boo hoo lockmartin[/QUOTE] Except they did as the M1151, and whilst that kept out small arms fire, it didn't do so well against IED and landmine threats as this new oshkosh mini-mrap does

well Lockheed Martin... they practically stuffed up. I'd say there probably was already distrust between the board of the company and those in congress, not to forget the pentagon as well. For 2 major projects to blow out in cost, aka the F-22 Raptor and the F-35 Lightning II, it's not surprising the purchasing parties would be concerned. It's basically letting them know that because of those, Lockheed Martin really needs to get it's game together. Otherwise their competitors in relative military industries will eat up their hopes for DoD large contracts and start to lose money. Also probably because of Oshkosh's MATV already in service in which this LATV is very similar, thus providing a smoother transition and also maintenance knowledge.

[QUOTE=Scorpo;49354299]they should just upgrade the Humvees instead of buying new vehicles imo anyway uh boo hoo lockmartin[/QUOTE] They did. It still doesn't do well compared to MRAPs and MATVs. A humvee doesn't have a v hull and stands closer to the ground which are bad for IED protection.

[QUOTE=Scorpo;49354299]they should just upgrade the Humvees instead of buying new vehicles imo anyway uh boo hoo lockmartin[/QUOTE] Seeking this sort of upgrade isn't wasteful and a new vehicle IS needed The less chance our boys have of dying from cheap ass road bombs and similar ambushes, the better. It's a price worth paying tbh, if the vehicle can do its job. In that respect, even our latest humvee models are a pretty lacking when it comes to IED protection, and modifying them all to the level of protection and performance afforded by newer mini mraps is probably not practical or worth the money and time. They're old trucks, man. We still have some in service from the 80s!

[QUOTE=Lium;49352958]Hang on, what? You can sue people for choosing not to buy your product? I heard litigation was crazy in America but this beggars belief.[/QUOTE] Not just the US and once the TTIP gets agreed on we will start seeing this LOTS more.

[QUOTE=Scorpo;49354299]they should just upgrade the Humvees instead of buying new vehicles imo anyway uh boo hoo lockmartin[/QUOTE] Cost more than what its worth, the Humvee was shit and inadequate. Did you know that a lot of vets backs have been shattered or destroyed from riding around in the back of them all day patrolling in Iraq.

[QUOTE=Hinterlight;49354288]What's the deal with that thing jutting out between the front windows? Seems like that would be a huge obstruction to the driver.[/QUOTE] it's the nose for the second face

[QUOTE=Hinterlight;49354288]What's the deal with that thing jutting out between the front windows? Seems like that would be a huge obstruction to the driver.[/QUOTE] Looks like a sensor package. The other variants don't have it. [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Lockheed_JLTV.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49354595]Not just the US and once the TTIP gets agreed on we will start seeing this LOTS more.[/QUOTE] Fun Fact: Recently unlike the TPP, TTIP Cannot use "commercial-scale infringement" in the EU, Actually the TTIP may even be GIMPED in the EU, Because a lot of countries cannot allow trade deals to interfere with EU laws(Makes sencse cause the EU is like a Trade Agreement Gone Political), so we the US might be stuck with the worst if the TTIP passes (Which as Best (for them): Two to Three Years, At worst: five to never)

[QUOTE=Scorpo;49354299]they should just upgrade the Humvees instead of buying new vehicles imo anyway uh boo hoo lockmartin[/QUOTE] They did several times during the Iraq War and all of the bolted on armor and attachments was too much for the suspension system. AM General (the makers of the Humvee) did submit what was essentially a reworked Humvee for this program called the BRVO. [t]http://car-revs-daily.carrevsdailycom1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2015-AM-General-BRV-O-212.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49352511]This is like getting sued by Walmart for going to Target. Total bullshit.[/QUOTE] Pretty common ploy with state contracted companies, though. Mine pulled the same shit when we lost our contract for the state emissions program here. State awarded it to another company, and we sued them and got the contract thrown out on a technicality so that it defaulted back to us for as long as it takes the state to completely restart the bidding process, which could take as long as a year.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49358141]Pretty common ploy with state contracted companies, though. Mine pulled the same shit when we lost our contract for the state emissions program here. State awarded it to another company, and we sued them and got the contract thrown out on a technicality so that it defaulted back to us for as long as it takes the state to completely restart the bidding process, which could take as long as a year.[/QUOTE] Not gonna lie. It's still total fucking bullshit. It's like a preschooler kicking the teacher in the shins for letting somebody else play with their favorite toy.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;49353669]"superior is subjective" is a contradiction It's either better or its not. If you wanna say something is not superior then just take issue with that instead of making up a new definition for a word.[/QUOTE] When comparing alternatives it's extremely unlikely that one of them would be straight up better than the other on every single point. Superior is subjective because it depends on which points you consider to be important.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49358407]Not gonna lie. It's still total fucking bullshit. It's like a preschooler kicking the teacher in the shins for letting somebody else play with their favorite toy.[/QUOTE] I agree completely. The company that I work for is incredibly unethical, as I imagine many government contractors are. Since we are the only company legally allowed to provide the service we provide throughout the state, we Jack the prices of our products up by as much as 1000% of shelf price. The equipment is all proprietary, down to the ink cartridges for our printer. If you're caught using anything that we didn't provide, we can not only charge you for the correct part, but levy a fine against you for violating the terms of the contract. A simple digital camera, tgat we get from Amazon for $50, we charge $250 plus a $110 configuration fee to connect it to our software, for example. A USB wifi adapter, $10 from Amazon? $150, plus $110 to connect to your network. Ours is the worst case scenario for a government contract leech, sucking dry both our private customers and the state itself for as long as we legally can, and there's nothing that can be done about itmexcept to go through the lengthy process to find a new contractor, whom we will of course drag to court. We have contracts with over a dozen different states in the US, as well as a handful of countries abroad. Pakistan is our newest client, and somehow I suspect we will be right at home there. They pay my bills and give me good benefits, so I'm sticking it out until I've finished the licensing process to be a real estate agent, but I am eager to wash my hands of this unpleasantness.

Update: [QUOTE][B]Federal judge denies Lockheed motion to halt Oshkosh Corp.'s work on a $6.7 billion contract[/B] A federal judge on Thursday denied Lockheed Martin's motion that could have forced Oshkosh Corp. to stop working on a $6.7 billion military contract while a lawsuit over that contract award continues. Lockheed Martin, the largest U.S. defense contractor, had asked U.S. Federal Claims Judge Charles Lettow to grant an injunction that would have compelled Oshkosh Corp. to stop building Joint Light Tactical Vehicles, or JLTVs, while its lawsuit challenging the military's decision to award Oshkosh that contract moves forward. Lettow's order rejecting the injunction is sealed. This means that Oshkosh Corp. can keep working on its JLTV contract, which could net the company more than $30 billion over the next 25 years, and spell an economic boom for the Fox Valley region. Meanwhile, Lockheed's legal challenge to the government's contract award continues. Lockheed had challenged the military’s late-August decision to award Oshkosh Corp. the contract through the Government Accountability office, which reviews these decisions, but can only recommend changes. The Government Accountability Board dismissed Lockheed's challenge in December on word that the company would mount a federal, and more formal, legal challenge to the military's decision to grant Oshkosh Corp the JLTV contract in late August. GAO's dismissal of that challenge lifted a 100-day work ban on the contract and allowed Oshkosh Corp. to begin building 17,000 vehicles over eight years. “This decision is another indication that the U.S. Army conducted a thorough, methodical procurement process, and we are confident that the original JLTV contract award to Oshkosh will be upheld,” Wilson R. Jones, Oshkosh Corporation president and CEO, said in a release Friday. Lockheed did not immediately respond to a request for comment Friday. Lockheed in its motion to halt work argued that the military applied different standards to the two companies when evaluating the contract and held "misleading" meetings with the company about the bid. The government, in response to Lockheed’s motion for injuction, had argued that Lockheed did not show that: The JLTV bidding process was unfair Lockheed would be harmed if Oshkosh continued working on the JLTV contract during the course of the lawsuit, in part because Oshkosh only expects to finish a small part of that contract in the time over the life of the suit Stopping work on the JLTV contract wouldn’t hurt the military. The government argued that halting work would put “soldiers and marines at risk.” Oshkosh Corp. attorneys have joined the lawsuit to argue that the contract should not be overturned. A recent report, authored by J. Michael Gilmore, the director of the Pentagon’s Operations Test & Evaluation Office, shows how Oshkosh and Lockheed JLTV prototypes met most requirements of the military program, while competitor AM General, known for making the iconic Humvee, which JLTV would replace, fell short. Oshkosh Corp. rolled its skills building M-ATVs into its JLTV model, while Lockheed’s prototype scored protection marks in step with Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected All-Terrain Vehicles, or M-ATVs, according to the report. [B]Oshkosh Corp.’s JLTV outpaced both Lockheed and AM General in reliability tests, logging 7,051 “Mean Miles between Operational Failure,” compared to the Humvee’s 2,968 miles. Lockheed posted 1,271 miles, while AM General demonstrated 526 miles – both performing worse than the Humvee.[/B] Gilmore recommended the Army develop a plan to address recommendations he filed in a classified report before production begins. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.thenorthwestern.com/story/money/2016/02/12/judge-allows-oshkosh-corp-jltv-work-continue/80286026/[/url]

Eat shit MIC, you greedy bastards.

[quote]logging 7,051 “Mean Miles between Operational Failure,” compared to the Humvee’s 2,968 miles. Lockheed posted 1,271 miles, while AM General demonstrated 526 miles – both performing worse than the Humvee.[/quote] Hahah holy shit what a huge difference, completely dusted the competition.

So remind me again why they didn't bid on the Pentagon's launch contracts and instead let space-x take them if they were so strapped for contracts Also I know Lockheed is not just an aircraft manufacturer, but they don't make heavy vehicles, while Oshkosh actually does, it would be like giving Ford the contract to build rockets

[QUOTE=Sableye;49735041]So remind me again why they didn't bid on the Pentagon's launch contracts and instead let space-x take them if they were so strapped for contracts Also I know Lockheed is not just an aircraft manufacturer, but they don't make heavy vehicles, while Oshkosh actually does, it would be like giving Ford the contract to build rockets[/QUOTE] Actually, Lockheed Martin has an entire division dedicated to ground vehicles. [url]http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/aerospace-defense/ground-vehicles.html[/url] They might not have been as successful at attaining government contracts for them, but they have a lot of people developing them. Your Ford analogy would be like saying General Electric shouldn't be making gatling guns

not only do those oshkosh vehicles look sexy, they are more reliable and protective than lockheed and humvees? god damn

Working with alot of Lockeed equipment I can testify that just about any peice Lockeed Martin equiptment sucks ass. Our Launch computers for example break all the time, even worse it's all underpowered 1980s tech for a baseline developed in the early 2000s made up of specialized circuit cards that nobodys made since 1980 meaning each card costs a small fortune. All of it's tailored to Lockeed Martin as a closed source system to get them as much money as possible at the cost of hundreds of man hours and millions in tax dollars. You could replace the whole system with a toughbook and a bunch of CAT5 cable and it would run a million times better.

Lockheed has officially dropped the suit [url]http://www.thenorthwestern.com/story/news/2016/02/18/lockheed-drops-suit-over-oshkosh-jltv-award/80542476/[/url]

[QUOTE=Sableye;49735041]So remind me again why they didn't bid on the Pentagon's launch contracts and instead let space-x take them if they were so strapped for contracts Also I know Lockheed is not just an aircraft manufacturer, but they don't make heavy vehicles, while Oshkosh actually does, it would be like giving Ford the contract to build rockets[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic-Ford_JB-2[/url] They had a hand in it at least.

[QUOTE=Ta16;49735627]Working with alot of Lockeed equipment I can testify that just about any peice Lockeed Martin equiptment sucks ass. Our Launch computers for example break all the time, even worse it's all underpowered 1980s tech for a baseline developed in the early 2000s made up of specialized circuit cards that nobodys made since 1980 meaning each card costs a small fortune. All of it's tailored to Lockeed Martin as a closed source system to get them as much money as possible at the cost of hundreds of man hours and millions in tax dollars. [B]You could replace the whole system with a toughbook and a bunch of CAT5 cable and it would run a million times better.[/B][/QUOTE] Why can't you do this then? Is it a money problem or are you legally not allowed to? Its really dumb that this companies are allowed to suck you dry so obviously.

[QUOTE=Xron;49778052]Why can't you do this then? Is it a money problem or are you legally not allowed to? Its really dumb that this companies are allowed to suck you dry so obviously.[/QUOTE] The software and such is probably designed to be used with Lockheed's parts and such, which since this is old as fuck the government hadn't learned that government contractors should not own the sole rights to their patents and such. I work with Lockheed and Boeings stuff on a regular basis. There is some retarded as fuck shit the two have to do to avoid violating the other's copyrights and or patents.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49358407]Not gonna lie. It's still total fucking bullshit. It's like a preschooler kicking the teacher in the shins for letting somebody else play with their favorite toy.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me? This is a huge company who will basically rely entirely on military spending. They can't exactly just go to another country and sell their weapons to them. They would get shut down and in all likely-hood several people would go to jail over state secrets. If they don't get contracts, the company shuts down, 126,000 people loose their jobs, along with all the other companies that relied on lockheed martin for their paychecks. (small specialist firms like radar manufacturers etc.)

[QUOTE=nuttyboffin;49778241]Are you kidding me? This is a huge company who will basically rely entirely on military spending. They can't exactly just go to another country and sell their weapons to them. They would get shut down and in all likely-hood several people would go to jail over state secrets. If they don't get contracts, the company shuts down, 126,000 people loose their jobs, along with all the other companies that relied on lockheed martin for their paychecks. (small specialist firms like radar manufacturers etc.)[/QUOTE] It's their own fucking fault for being so shitty. It's the nature of capitalism for the best company to thrive while the others fail. Lockheed consistently delivers over-budget, inferior products. Just because jobs depend on them doesn't mean the yanks should keep pumping money into them.

[QUOTE=StrykerE;49769796]Lockheed has officially dropped the suit [url]http://www.thenorthwestern.com/story/news/2016/02/18/lockheed-drops-suit-over-oshkosh-jltv-award/80542476/[/url][/QUOTE] Get fucked Lockheed.