• Science behind commonly used anti-depressants appears to be backwards, researchers say
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Everyone I know who's taken antidepressants becomes totally withdrawn. I've seen people basically fade away into a shell of their former selves. It legitimately scares me.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47169506]The way I see it, there's two types of depression: there's the type that's a painful, torturous despair, and there's the type that's a complete lack of energy and no desire to do anything. In my experience what antidepressants do is they replace the first type with the second type.[/QUOTE] Yeah. For a while I had the first kind, but then after some words of encouragement, etc I almost immediately got stuck in the second one, where I was feeling so hopeless yet my mind would not allow me to go back to the first kind, because of the chats I'd had with others. But at the same time I also knew that most of what I had been told was untrue, which prevented me from getting out of the second type. It was a near-indefinite cycle of torturous nothingness, and I actually felt myself longing for the first kind. And when I did get that first kind again, I had no regrets. I still wanted it more than the second type.
My current anti-depressants are pretty great. I've taken three different brands. The first one made me super weirdly "happy" I guess while the second brand made me boringly apathetic. The ones I take now actually get rid of all of my painful anxiety and, when I started taking them, gave me the chance to think and rebuild myself without losing focus to the feeling of fear. I'm very happy with them.
[quote] Those serotonin-boosting medications actually make it harder for patients to recover, especially in the short term, says lead author Paul Andrews, an assistant professor of Psychology, Neuroscience & Behaviour at McMaster.[/quote] WELL, that'll explain why over the period where my doctor put me on SSRIs I got even worse. It did seem pretty fucked that some of the many, [I]many, [B]many[/B][/I] listed 'side-effects' are [I]"heightened depression"[/I] and [I]"increased suicidal thoughts"[/I].
"Highlights" of the study: [QUOTE]•Acute SSRI treatment exacerbates ruminative processes and worsens symptoms. •Chronic SSRI treatment reverses ruminative processes and reduces symptoms.[/QUOTE] This supports the current theory not theirs. The rest of the study preview is not really helpful and they want you to pay 35$ for the full one. There is no evidence for their claim in the preview. Gotta show this to my professor and ask what she thinks about it when the next semester starts. I can't imagine this being true and I think for some people SSRI's are the right thing to help them deal with their depression. [editline]19th February 2015[/editline] did some research and this guy is not even a psychologist [QUOTE]I was trained in behavioral ecology at the University of New Mexico (UNM), Department of Biology, but I am somewhat unusual in that I worked on human behavior and psychology as part of my PhD dissertation. So I may call myself a behavioral ecologist, an evolutionary biologist, or an evolutionary psychologist, depending on the situation.[/QUOTE] I may call myself a policeman, an astronaut or a fireman depending on the situation
i was first given prozac for my treatment. the doctor pushed it up and up to 60mg, at which point i had a suicidal crisis, so we switched to bupropion. that was ineffective despite titrations up to 300mg so then we switched to SSNRI. then we added bupropion to that, and an algae oil vitamin, and lithium, and a thyroid hormone, and armodanifil i frequently worry that i'll be on these things for all my life. i really wish i could trust in American neuropharmalogical research
For me, Prozac made me horribly suicidal and i started hallucinating. Zoloft is amazing, depression is gone and anxiety is reduced (with therapy). I've improved so much, I've stopped therapy and am recovering on my own.
Jesus now I feel like a science experiment I've been on them since 6th grade and I graduted in June, I stopped taking them around a year before then and I feel better.
[QUOTE=Buck.;47170135]Obviously I can't speak for everyone but personally I've been depressed before but I never soughed therapy, or anti-depressants. Everything seemed to get better eventually by itself. I look at depression as something that will probably happen to everyone at some point, a natural phenomenon that comes and goes. I mean it's a feeling that comes from within, and for me a right state of mind helps. I like putting my problems into perspective, because at the end of the day, no matter how bad I have it, some innocent kid in an undeveloped nation somewhere has it even worse.[/QUOTE] There are a lot of different kinds of depressions. Are you sure you were depressed? Maybe you were just sad? Depression can develop from poor diet(lack of vitamins, nutrition...), physical illness, chemical imbalances, a lot of other shit. I know you're speaking for yourself but you seem kinda ignorant on the issue. Some kid in Africa might be doing much worse than me but if my brain tells me to kill myself, it won't change if I think about African kids.
[QUOTE=mastersrp;47170112]I think it's pretty important to note that anti-depressants are NOT supposed to cure depression. Going into taking these kinds of drugs and expecting the depression to completely stop or be cured in one way or another is NOT how they work. Most anti-depressants are only supposed to relieve you from most of the symptoms of depression, allowing you to be helped by a psychologist or therapist. It eases recovery, it is not a cure.[/QUOTE] people seem to misunderstand this greatly. I remember thinking somewhat similar, having the expectation than anti depressants would just work, just like that. of course they won't work just like that, one is going to need to get therapy, expose themselves, and learn to think differently about what bothers them to get better. I like to think of anti depressants as support scaffolding for when you build a building. it'll only help you get the building up and act as a support, it won't do the job for you
[QUOTE=kenji;47170213]Yeah, i know someone who [I]had[/I] that side effect, going off them made 'em better. Personally i wouldn't take them because they've... always sounded like old-timey snake oil to me for some reason "Take this pill, it'll make you stop feeling so sad!"[/QUOTE] Just a heads up though, sometimes there's a need to take them. It's not just a throw-it-at-your-problems pill, but for some people it's a treatment/method that allows them to live normally again. It's something we take for granted until a wave of horrible anxiety hits us for a period of time and just about completely controls our life. As Helix Snake said, it truly can be a wave of absolutely tortorous despair when it gets bad.
[QUOTE=Ericson666;47167675]Well considering how badly SSRI's kill your sex drive, I'm not surprised to hear they can leave people feeling worse[/QUOTE] That's me! D:
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47169012]Depends on the person. Half the time they want to stabilize you with medication so that [B]when you approach therapy you won't be in a mess in the office[/B]. The other half, therapy is seen as a better option because medication may have no direct/indirect effect if nothing is talked about to relieve stress.[/QUOTE] That makes it sound like they are not compassionate or patient. My understanding is that you do therapy and medication at the same time because often times (at least in my experience with anxiety), when you're anxious about something it's very hard to think about and use the therapy productively to solve the current anxiety. Whereas if you have medication, it helps to reduce your anxiety, you can think more clearly, use the skills they've been teaching you in therapy and better deal with the situation and learn from the experience. [QUOTE=ossumsauce;47169424]I recently just stopped taking SSRIs, and honestly... i sort of got worse when i was on them? Even after the "two weeks" thing. Behavior at school worsened, grades went down even further. I may not have been depressed AS MUCH(i certainly still was depressed) but i just lost any reasoning to do anything. Even suicide seemed like too much effort. I didn't do any homework, hardly participated in class, failed more than one class a semester. It was a mess. Maybe now i know why... I still got help through therapy, and i'm much better now, but... Yeah.[/QUOTE] Did your doctor explain to you that using SSRIs can be a process of working with him to try different ones until you find one that works?
[QUOTE=Buck.;47170135]Obviously I can't speak for everyone but personally I've been depressed before but I never soughed therapy, or anti-depressants. Everything seemed to get better eventually by itself. I look at depression as something that will probably happen to everyone at some point, a natural phenomenon that comes and goes. I mean it's a feeling that comes from within, and for me a right state of mind helps. I like putting my problems into perspective, because at the end of the day, no matter how bad I have it, some innocent kid in an undeveloped nation somewhere has it even worse.[/QUOTE] You didn't have depression, you were just depressed. the fucking name is the worst fucking thing ever.
[QUOTE=mentalmoustache;47172815]You didn't have depression, you were just depressed. the fucking name is the worst fucking thing ever.[/QUOTE] That would make sense, it never lasted longer than a month before I could get back on my feet. I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive.
[QUOTE=Sableye;47169326]I wonder if this is another example of the massive power of the placebo effect, like when these drugs were new people got convinced that it would make them feel better, adding to any effect the medicine had. Now years later the glamor has worn off, the truth is out and people don't exactly believe it will make them better and it only sort of works[/QUOTE] I used to take Paxil and it didn't really fix anything except I wasn't suicidal anymore, kind of just numb all the time, but I had all kinds of side effects, especially sexual. Now I'm on Zoloft and I feel amazing every day. The only side effect I have from it is that my left eye has difficulty focusing, so things are a little blurry, but this has improved since my dose was reduced to every other day. I also had the same sexual side effects as Paxil, but that went away within the first month. Sometimes when I take the pill, I can feel it the moment it starts doing its thing within a half hour or so. It's like a flood of warm and happy in my brain. They (can) work.
[QUOTE=Buck.;47173218]That would make sense, it never lasted longer than a month before I could get back on my feet. I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive.[/QUOTE] Its not your fault, its probably the biggest problem keeping people from getting treatment/ misunderstanding what depression actually does.
Therapy has definitely helped with my depression. But medication helped the therapy to work. Even with a great therapist if I wasn't on the proper medication I'd feel terrible. SSRIs do work. I've had major depression disorder and social anxiety disorder since late middle school, probably because I was bullied a lot and was previously diagnosed with PDD-NOS as a kid so I had trouble being social. I was at one point suicidal as a kid, and later on in college it got that bad again. It's not the kind of depression where it's "oh man I feel kinda down" it's "oh man I can't feel any sort of pleasure in my life regardless of what I do, all I feel is this horrible empty feeling, I have zero energy to do anything and I'd rather die than feel this way." Therapy was the first thing that was supposed to help me. I went through a few therapists due to insurance issues, with various psychiatrists prescribing me different things. Some SSRI medications (Lexapro) would work for a bit but I'd be numb and have sexual side effects like anorgasmia (you orgasm but don't feel anything) and it would take over an hour to climax, which would have been great if I had a girlfriend. Others didn't do shit (Effexor, Abilify) and I either felt the same shittiness of not being on medication or even worse plus the side effects would be there. Right now I have both a therapist and psychologist who actually care about me, and I can be open with about how I'm feeling and doing. I'm now on a low dose of Risperdal (has off-label uses for depression), a high dose of Welbutrin (helps the SSRI to work), and a moderate dose of Zoloft (SSRI), and I feel, well, normal. I'm not numb, I can feel pleasure, and I don't feel that empty feeling anymore (unless something terrible happens to me/family/friends but that's normal). Side effects are still there but nowhere near as bad. I'm still having some trouble with social anxiety but the therapy is helping with that and the SSRIs make the anxiety way more manageable than being off meds. tl;dr SSRIs do work.
[QUOTE=Kindashort;47170052]When I was 14 I was diagnosed with severe clinical depression and as borderline manic depressive. I took the 50mg of zoloft I was prescribed every night for a week like I was told to. By the end of the week I was completely batshit,hearing voices,seeing bugs,weird mood swings. I never took the zoloft again the but episodes of seeing,hearing things that aren't there and extreme mood swings have stayed.[/QUOTE] I don't know if you've seen a doctor or not, but you should. It sounds like what you experienced and continue to experience is psychosis. As far as I have read SSRIs are not linked to psychotic episodes, but often the introduction of drugs that effects the brain in any way really can bring on the onset of latent psychosis. This is most commonly seen with recreational drugs (Cannabis, Cocaine, Amphetamines, etc.), but the SSRIs may have caused the onset, but almost certainly did not give you psychosis. [editline]20th February 2015[/editline] To add to my post with some personal experience I have been diagnosed officially with Major Depressive Disorder. Now, this may or may not be accurate because the diagnoses came at the age of 17, and I was undergoing a depressive episode. My current doctor thinks I have something more along the lines of OCD. I would read WebMD and then get myself really worked up that I had some disease or disorder. I at one point or another thought I had cancer, schizophrenia, ASD (my therapist thought this was hilarious), BPD, basically anything that had a symptom list. Looking back absolutely none of these self-diagnoses make any sense whatsoever, but these obsessive diagnoses were accompanied by near-daily panic attacks which can tend to warp the reality of things in a way. I was put onto SSRIs and switched around a bit until I found one that agreed with me. I will say that an SSRI was the most powerful tool to let me escape from this kind of 'record tape' thinking, where I would loop these obsessive ideas in my head. I won't say there were no side effects though. I would often feel almost indescribably 'funky' some days. I had a few times early into the SSRIs where it would feel like I was dreaming even though I was awake. I would also say the SSRIs made me a bit more apathetic in both a good and a bad way. It let me stop checking webmd, but I also lost my drive. I have been off SSRIs for a month or two now, and during that period I set weight loss goals and lost about 30 pounds which put me into nearly 'healthy' body weight. I would say that the weight loss, combined with excersize were just as effective in the treatment of my disorder. I would say though I don't think I would have managed to get myself out of the rut I was in to start losing weight and working out if I had not taken the SSRIs. I would say overall the SSRIs were a positive experience, and that combined with therapy has made it so that I don't remember the last time I worried about having a disease or disorder. Sorry for the massive and sort of personal wall of text, hope I'm not oversharing, just trying to add tot he discussion.
[QUOTE=Jawalt;47177080]My current doctor thinks I have something more along the lines of OCD. I would read WebMD and then get myself really worked up that I had some disease or disorder. I at one point or another thought I had cancer, schizophrenia, ASD (my therapist thought this was hilarious), BPD, basically anything that had a symptom list. Looking back absolutely none of these self-diagnoses make any sense whatsoever, but these obsessive diagnoses were accompanied by near-daily panic attacks which can tend to warp the reality of things in a way.[/QUOTE] this sounds near identical to what i go through, and my mom has diagnosed OCD. when you say it warps reality, what do you mean by that? my physical perceptions have been completely fucked for about half a year now
[QUOTE=MR-X;47167582]Well of course they want you to take more of their product. Instead working out the cause well just give you a pill to fix a symptom.[/QUOTE] Not so simple. Some people just have inherent problems with their brain manifesting for example as bipolar. Taking them off them and trying to probe into the alleged with psychology/therapy can lead to suicide. I lost my father that way. My sister and I show a lot of indicators. Odds are I'll have to probably take some form of anti-depressant for the rest of my life. I don't want any kids because I think it would be too cruel to pass something like this on to them.
[QUOTE=Jawalt;47177080]I don't know if you've seen a doctor or not, but you should. It sounds like what you experienced and continue to experience is psychosis. As far as I have read SSRIs are not linked to psychotic episodes, but often the introduction of drugs that effects the brain in any way really can bring on the onset of latent psychosis. This is most commonly seen with recreational drugs (Cannabis, Cocaine, Amphetamines, etc.), but the SSRIs may have caused the onset, but almost certainly did not give you psychosis. [/QUOTE] Bipolar disorder runs in my mom's side of the family. Her dad was in and out of eastern state when she was growing up. He tried to kill himself multiple times. Once he shot himself in the chest twice with a .38. He missed his heart by millimeters. Her sister has it too and my mom has told me multiple times that when I get like that I act just like my aunt does. When I get like that I don't sleep much if any and I don't get tired,I can fly into rages over nothing or have crying fits over nothing,I hear a man and woman above me talking about me. I can't make out what they're saying but it's about me. I get incredibly paranoid,once I thought my cat was satan and just bawled when she jumped up on me. I feel like I'm invincible yet at the same time I feel like it'd be nothing to hang myself in my closet. I talk fast,I feel like I have a million thoughts all at once,I do things I wouldn't normally do and if anyone tries to stop me the rage shows up again. It sucks. Before the zoloft I wasn't like this,depressed yes but not completely nuts.
I thought this was pretty common knowledge? I mean these are powerful drugs, you thought they would be a cure-all with no side effects?
I find it ironic and interesting that Denmark is commonly seen as one of the happiest countries yet has one of the highest antidepressant consumptions.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;47177167]this sounds near identical to what i go through, and my mom has diagnosed OCD. when you say it warps reality, what do you mean by that? my physical perceptions have been completely fucked for about half a year now[/QUOTE] It's hard to explain. I guess I could sum it up as "You can convince yourself of anything if you try hard enough." If I believed I had a mental disorder for instance I could cherry pick tons of small things from my life as supporting evidence, and I could even make it sound convincing. The problem though is that the bulk of the evidence does not support the conclusion I am making. In other words I can take a tiny ache I get in my side and turn it into cancer, and thoroughly convince myself even though it makes absolutely no sense. And to a level, I understand that it makes no sense, but I am so engrossed and captivated by this idea and the anxieties accompanying it.
[QUOTE=Mobon1;47182779]I find it ironic and interesting that Denmark is commonly seen as one of the happiest countries yet has one of the highest antidepressant consumptions.[/QUOTE] the levels prescription and consumption do not necessarily correlate to the levels of depression in a given country the rate and amount of depression could be just as high in korea, while depression goes undiagnosed and thus untreated, thus leading to lower levels of consumption.
[QUOTE=Kindashort;47170052]When I was 14 I was diagnosed with severe clinical depression and as borderline manic depressive. I took the 50mg of zoloft I was prescribed every night for a week like I was told to. By the end of the week I was completely batshit,hearing voices,seeing bugs,weird mood swings. I never took the zoloft again the but episodes of seeing,hearing things that aren't there and extreme mood swings have stayed.[/QUOTE] I'm schizophrenic, I share your pain. Sorry bro.
It helps me at least. Probably gonna have to chew these bastards forever.
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