It happened: Russia Invades Ukraine. You read that right ... AKA Shit hits the fan. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45826526]It's better than the Soviet Union.[/QUOTE] So what qualifies you to make that claim? [editline]28th August 2014[/editline] And I'm not talking about Ukraine

[QUOTE=Fort83;45826272]I seem to recall what happened the last time the US said that in response to one country invading another.[/QUOTE] and the last time we said the opposite, we got into the longest war in our history that everyone still bitches at us for canada could always intervene

[QUOTE=godfatherk;45828696]I don't see russia having boots on the ground in central or western europe if things degenerate into fullblown war between NATO allies and Russian allies [thumb]http://www.worldmapper.org/images/largepng/279.png[/thumb] millitary expenditures map, which visualizes the size of the budgets relative to one another[/QUOTE] Inflation fetishists have gone too far.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45828464]The only ones nostalgic for USSR are the КПРФ party, the Commie party of russland federation, and their followers. That's a really small percentage of population (their candidates for anything higher then a town mayor never get more then 3% votes). They are "clown opposition", funded by the government to keep 50-70 people nostalgic, but powerless.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2014/05/PG-2014-05-08-ukraine-russia-3-05.png[/img] [img]http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2014/05/PG-2014-05-08-ukraine-russia-3-06.png[/img] [url]http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/chapter-3-russia-public-backs-putin-crimeas-secession/[/url]

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;45827340]Why would you think one logically follows the other? Russia isn't the third Reich. If they do annex any other countries, and I doubt that they will, it would likely be something close by that none of the other world powers are going to give a practical shit about besides a song and dance. Say, Belarus. And that's only likely is Belarus has a similar situation to Ukraine, which they don't.[/QUOTE] There's not much logic too it. I just figured Russia is expressing territorial ambitions with Ukraine, so they might try to snatch up some other small nation that no one cares about. That no one cares about as in the West won't intervene because it doesn't have the money or political clout to do anything.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45826518]You have literally no fucking idea what you're talking about bud. You should seriously stop with your nationalist bullshit in these threads. You're only making yourself and other Americans look bad.[/QUOTE] tbh i remember my junior history class and that was actually what most of the world war 2 chapter was. basically germany whooping everyone's ass and making a mistake by declaring war on america and hitler's decision to use the Luftwaffe during a rainstorm when planning to attack retreating british forces. that was the gist of it.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;45830862]tbh i remember my junior history class and that was actually what most of the world war 2 chapter was. basically germany whooping everyone's ass and making a mistake by declaring war on america and hitler's decision to use the Luftwaffe during a rainstorm when planning to attack retreating british forces. that was the gist of it.[/QUOTE] Hitler's biggest mistake wasn't declaring war on America but on the USSR. America didn't affect the European theater until the invasion of Italy, about a year and a half after war was declared. [editline]28th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;45830091]Obviously it helped. That's why the Soviets asked the western Allies to open a new front in the first place.[/QUOTE] We only opened a second front in the west when we realized the USSR was pushing the Nazis back hard and we didn't want them to push them all the way into the Atlantic.

[QUOTE=meek;45829806]I had a lady from Ukraine who worked at my house tell me about life in the Soviet Union, according to her they had jobs and could get food and everything to lead a good life, and now they have to go abroad to even find work that pays enough to survive. Obviously a lot of people feel the same way as her. Not saying the Soviet Union was a good place to live but for many people given the choice they would go back.[/QUOTE] She was probably lying about a few things. Ask any young citizen of the time, a.k.a. the equivalent of Generation X in the USSR whose memories aren't jolted merely by nostalgia and who had an objective grasp of the status quo, to describe how things went down. You'll probably hear the same shit - food stamps, shortages, mass housing, russification policies shoved in your face and military service in general being a nightmare if you weren't Russian. The general population had to put up with some shit even up till the 80s, even here in Estonia, which was considered the most western state of the USSR, and thus a massive eyesore for Kreml. The only way you were spared of any of the shit like standing in line for sugar or sausages or toilet paper was if you/a friend/a family member knew the storekeeper/supply supervisor/someone high up in the local committee. My grandfather was the committee chairman for an entire region, thus he never had to worry about luxury commodities, and was even allowed to view/listen to Finnish television/radio without repercussions. The rest of the poor saps, the "proles", had to secretly install illegal black market devices in their TVs to receive the signal, tear out amplifiers from public telephone booths to make electric guitars and had to put up with shortages of pretty much everything imaginable that wasn't as basic as black bread or water. That lady you speak of probably had someone in her family who knew someone, making things a bit simpler. Nepotism was undoubtedly the order of the day, every day.

While I think Russia should stay out of this entirely, I've been watching interviews with people on both sides, and it sounds more like a civil war than anything else, at least in this region. I recommend you all watch this, I was really surprised to see how seperatist and government forces are treating each other. And it goes to show how much we'd be fucking up peoples lives by going in gun ho screaming freedom. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNig07RtWxA[/media]

Don't Russia and NATO forces collide in the beginning of The Day After?

[QUOTE=redBadger;45826264]If playing Civilization has taught me anything, this was bound to happen.[/QUOTE] Inaccurate, India hasn't nuked everyone....yet.

[QUOTE=Sir Drone;45832345]Inaccurate, India hasn't nuked everyone....yet.[/QUOTE] Ganhdi is dead so it won't happen

[QUOTE=cqbcat;45830753]There's not much logic too it. I just figured Russia is expressing territorial ambitions with Ukraine, so they might try to snatch up some other small nation that no one cares about. That no one cares about as in the West won't intervene because it doesn't have the money or political clout to do anything.[/QUOTE] It seems that way on the surface, but don't forget this was internal strife in Ukraine that boiled over. I think Russia was just being opportunistic, not attempting to revive the old soviet dragon or anything.

It's not like Russia wanst to conquer anything anymore anyway. At least for a decade or so we won't have the money for that. Especially considering that we already own 1/8 land of Earth. Due to the absolute hugeness of Motherland a huge amount of roads has to be constantly repaired, non stop. That's millions if not billions of dollars annually. And if that's not done everything will die out quickly. Getting any more land is an economical suicide. More roads, more regions to fund until they get profitable, more refugees to feed etc.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;45826443]Yeah a few years later America showed up and won the war on 2 different sides of the globe[/QUOTE] You can thank the Soviet Union, Canada, Britain, France, China, Belgium, Brazil, Denmark, Greece, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Africa, Yugoslavia, and Australia later.

This is the wierdest conflict ever. The Ukranian APCs are moving to the east just to line up to be disarmed and repatriated. Like seriously, da fuq?

So nothing different really happened compared to the last few days? Talk about a sensationalist title.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45832982]It's not like Russia wanst to conquer anything anymore anyway. At least for a decade or so we won't have the money for that. Especially considering that we already own 1/8 land of Earth. Due to the absolute hugeness of Motherland a huge amount of roads has to be constantly repaired, non stop. That's millions if not billions of dollars annually. And if that's not done everything will die out quickly. Getting any more land is an economical suicide. More roads, more regions to fund until they get profitable, more refugees to feed etc.[/QUOTE] hnnngggg more people!!! I joke If East Ukraine did split off then they could stay independent and join the EAU, it would be taking the best part of ukraine (economically) without having to pull the dead weight in the west (I don't mean this offensively I mean the west ukraine generally relies on the east's industry) while still keeping a bunch fo coastline available for Russia to use [t]http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/sittingandbting/0312-Ukraine-map_zpsa1017496.jpg[/t] What will happen to the rest of Ukraine if such a split occurs isn't nice to think about though, debt, corruption and squabbling over resources. Public services will be sold off to repay debts so the people will suffer. Times of austerity will also cause the extremist left and right groups to flourish which will make it harder for the country to stand up again.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45833175]hnnngggg more people!!! I joke If East Ukraine did split off then they could stay independent and join the EAU, it would be taking the best part of ukraine (economically) without having to pull the dead weight in the west (I don't mean this offensively I mean the west ukraine generally relies on the east's industry) while still keeping a bunch fo coastline available for Russia to use [t]http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/sittingandbting/0312-Ukraine-map_zpsa1017496.jpg[/t] What will happen to the rest of Ukraine if such a split occurs isn't nice to think about though, debt, corruption and squabbling over resources. Public services will be sold off to repay debts so the people will suffer. Times of austerity will also cause the extremist left and right groups to flourish which will make it harder for the country to stand up again.[/QUOTE] I think no matter what happens, even in the best scenario where West and East Ukraine reunite and all political relations with Russia and West are restored, Ukraine will take at least 20 years to get back to previous economic level.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;45826443]Yeah a few years later America showed up and won the war on 2 different sides of the globe[/QUOTE] The spirits of over one billion, eight hundred and sixty-eight million, nine hundred and seventy-two thousand foreigners thank you for casting their death to vanity.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45833191]I think no matter what happens, even in the best scenario where West and East Ukraine reunite and all political relations with Russia and West are restored, Ukraine will take at least 20 years to get back to previous economic level.[/QUOTE] Agreed 100% Ukraine should remain whole, possibly with some degree of federalisation to appease the guys in the east. The ideal scenario would be good connections with Russia and the EU. Both can help it rebuild with investment and trade deals (EU free trade and Russia's fuels). Hopefully at some point EU and Russia will repair relations and work together again, they both benefit from each other for the time being and its about time that cold war "us vs them" mentality was repaired.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45832982]It's not like Russia wanst to conquer anything anymore anyway. At least for a decade or so we won't have the money for that. Especially considering that we already own 1/8 land of Earth. Due to the absolute hugeness of Motherland a huge amount of roads has to be constantly repaired, non stop. That's millions if not billions of dollars annually. And if that's not done everything will die out quickly. Getting any more land is an economical suicide. More roads, more regions to fund until they get profitable, more refugees to feed etc.[/QUOTE] So far Putin (collective one, as in, government) hasn't demonstrated a lot of sanity. Crimea puts a strain as it is on out economy, and those "sanctions". And now this shit that, again, means expenses. Seems to me like Putin doesn't care much for economy, he just wants to make his name known to history as a Glorious Leader Who Claimed a lot of Land or something to that extent. Yeah that's simplistic view, but it works for the moment.

[QUOTE=gudman;45833295]So far Putin (collective one, as in, government) hasn't demonstrated a lot of sanity. Crimea puts a strain as it is on out economy, and those "sanctions". And now this shit that, again, means expenses. Seems to me like Putin doesn't care much for economy, he just wants to make his name known to history as a Glorious Leader Who Claimed a lot of Land or something to that extent. Yeah that's simplistic view, but it works for the moment.[/QUOTE] That's complete nonsense. Our collective emperor, whether we like it or not, works in the best interest of Russia. Crimea puts a temporary strain, but just like any annexed region at first. It will become profitable soon, especially considering the military bases. Putin's rating is higher then ever. I doubt it's due to some kind of Napoleon character of his as many portrait it. Putin has never shown any greed for power or recognition in history. He is extremely practical, he is a spy after all. He might be greedy for power, but it's not proven by anyone. Also how excellent "green men" incident was executed shows that Putin is absolutely sane. Ukrainian government and the oligarchs ruling are completely sane too in their own way, unlike the Ukrainian population. A good margin of Russian population isn't sane too now due to a huge patriotic rise. But people of power care only about power and rightfully so.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45833315]That's complete nonsense. Our collective emperor, whether we like it or not, works in the best interest of Russia. Crimea puts a temporary strain, but just like any annexed region at first. It will become profitable soon, especially considering the military bases.[/quote] What? How it's going to become profitable, really? [quote]Putin's rating is higher then ever. I doubt it's due to some kind of Napoleon character of his as many portrait it. Putin has never shown any greed for power or recognition in history. He is extremely practical, he is a spy after all. He might be greedy for power, but it's not proven by anyone. [/quote] Um, rating is not indicative of anything at all. Like, seriously. His greed for power is indicated pretty clearly to me by the fact that he's kinda overdue on the chair for quite a while. He did exploit a loophole (which is only perceived as one) in the Constitution after all, didn't he? For all intents and purposes he's a dictator. [quote]Also how excellent "green men" incident was executed shows that Putin is absolutely sane. Ukrainian government and the oligarchs ruling are completely sane too in their own way, unlike the Ukrainian population. A good margin of Russian population isn't sane too now due to a huge patriotic rise. But people of power care only about power and rightfully so.[/QUOTE] Polite green men incident isn't really about sanity. It's more like "yeah we're here, what are you gonna do about it? open fire, I dare you". That's exploiting the military impotence of Ukraine. It wasn't some pinnacle of strategy or something. It's just knowing that Russia is just that much more powerful than Ukraine and the latter won't be able to do anything at all even if they wanted to.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45833315]He is extremely practical, he is a spy after all.[/QUOTE] Putin's KGB past is extremely exaggerated, he was a regular operative and never even got promoted because he was just a regular desk clerk. People like to mention it regardless because the mere name of the KGB bares these mysteriously sinister connotations and people like to think that anyone who worked there secretly murdered and kidnapped countless of unknowns.

[QUOTE=Melnek;45833372]Putin's KGB past is extremely exaggerated, he was a regular operative and never even got promoted because he was just a regular desk clerk.[/QUOTE] I suppose he was, but any source?

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45833228]Agreed 100% Ukraine should remain whole, possibly with some degree of federalisation to appease the guys in the east. The ideal scenario would be good connections with Russia and the EU. Both can help it rebuild with investment and trade deals (EU free trade and Russia's fuels). Hopefully at some point EU and Russia will repair relations and work together again, they both benefit from each other for the time being and its about time that cold war "us vs them" mentality was repaired.[/QUOTE] Yeah but as long as Russia occupies Crimea, I honestly don't see that happening.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;45833561]Yeah but as long as Russia occupies Crimea, I honestly don't see that happening.[/QUOTE] What is Ukraine's other option? If they continue they will get further in debt, more damaged cities, more dead guys and if it counts as war they wont be able to get the big loans and won't get able to enter EU. There would also be the possibility of losing the east all together which would be devastating to them. If they don't fix ties with Russia they'll struggle getting fuel and unrest will continue with the various people who identify themselves more as Russians than European/Ukrainian. They're kind of in a lose lose situation.

[QUOTE=Melnek;45833372]Putin's KGB past is extremely exaggerated, he was a regular operative and never even got promoted because he was just a regular desk clerk. People like to mention it regardless because the mere name of the KGB bares these mysteriously sinister connotations and people like to think that anyone who worked there secretly murdered and kidnapped countless of unknowns.[/QUOTE] I am afraid to tell you, but Putin once stopped a huge angry crowd in Berlin. It was something about the wall being put down. A lot of people rushed to the Russian embassy and Putin was the only one who walked out to them, fired a gun in the air and somehow calmed the crowd down. He had never been a desk clerk or at least you can't prove it. Later he got into the political game thanks to Yeltsin which basically gave him the throne before leaving. Anyway nobody is exaggerating Putin's KGB past because nobody knows anything about it. The fact is that Putin is a strong politician, whether you like it or not. he might be aggressive, but claiming he is some kind of a power hungry monster is stupid. I don't like him in the slightest, but he knows what he is doing, hence why people support him. [editline]29th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=gudman;45833352] Polite green men incident isn't really about sanity. It's more like "yeah we're here, what are you gonna do about it? open fire, I dare you". That's exploiting the military impotence of Ukraine. It wasn't some pinnacle of strategy or something. It's just knowing that Russia is just that much more powerful than Ukraine and the latter won't be able to do anything at all even if they wanted to.[/QUOTE] It's a well planned act. Of course it's a sign of sanity. Insane people don't plan.

I hope Russia won't turn their invading eyes towards Finland. Or we will have a real-life 7-hour war.