Chelsea Manning 'may sue' over gender dysphoria therapy - Polidicks

I'll ask for the fourth time, maybe someone will actually respond, considering how hard it is for an inmate who isn't transgender to seek therapy for their mental issues, why is it so important that Chelsea be the exception in this one case? What is it about gender dysphoria that is more important than something like clinical unipolar depression? Both conditions have a high suicide rate, so that's not it, both conditions affect the prisoner while they are under state care, so that's not it/... I'm at a loss here. Why is this one issue such a big deal when people have been denied mental care for years for conditions that are just as serious, and in some cases the exact same condition.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44861109]I'm guessing that people act this way toward trans issues because they're probably so insecure about their sexuality that even the IDEA of a man becoming a woman makes them upset. I really wish this backwards ass "MACHO TRUE MAN BINARY GENDERS ONLY" attitude would just disappear.[/QUOTE] "anyone with different views than me must be insecure lol look at that idiot"

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44861109]I'm guessing that people act this way toward trans issues because they're probably so insecure about their sexuality that even the IDEA of a man becoming a woman makes them upset. I really wish this backwards ass "MACHO TRUE MAN BINARY GENDERS ONLY" attitude would just disappear.[/QUOTE] Or maybe because the whole concept is foreign and alien to people? That's how it is to me. And with everyone making it so black-and-white, with us or against us really only further divides people. To be very honest, all this hostility only pushes me away from ever touching this topic and would much rather see this topic ignored than discussed.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44861109]I'm guessing that people act this way toward trans issues because they're probably so insecure about their sexuality that even the IDEA of a man becoming a woman makes them upset. I really wish this backwards ass "MACHO TRUE MAN BINARY GENDERS ONLY" attitude would just disappear.[/QUOTE] Yeah it couldn't be that you are vehemetly defending someone SIMPLY and ONLY because they are transgender in the face of thousands of other people who suffer from serious conditions and can't get help. That couldn't be why. Just because someone disagrees with you on an issue that involves a transgender person does not make them transphobic and I think it's disgusting that you trow around words like bigot and phobic without proof, or considering what those words might mean to the person you are accusing. disagreement =/= hate There's only one or two people who have said anything even close to "MACHO TRUE MAN BINARY GENDERS ONLY" but you generalize everyone who disagrees with you into that category. That's offensive and bigoted OF YOU

[QUOTE=Rofl_copter;44861127]"anyone with different views than me must be insecure lol look at that idiot"[/QUOTE] well if you do bemoan trans individuals because they're outside the gender binary, then yeah you kinda do have some personal issues that you need to resolve

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44861109]I'm guessing that people act this way toward trans issues because they're probably so insecure about their sexuality that even the IDEA of a man becoming a woman makes them upset. I really wish this backwards ass "MACHO TRUE MAN BINARY GENDERS ONLY" attitude would just disappear.[/QUOTE] I've seen about 1-2 posts about that...what are you doing.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44861125]I'll ask for the fourth time, maybe someone will actually respond, considering how hard it is for an inmate who isn't transgender to seek therapy for their mental issues, why is it so important that Chelsea be the exception in this one case? What is it about gender dysphoria that is more important than something like clinical unipolar depression? Both conditions have a high suicide rate, so that's not it, both conditions affect the prisoner while they are under state care, so that's not it/... I'm at a loss here. Why is this one issue such a big deal when people have been denied mental care for years for conditions that are just as serious, and in some cases the exact same condition.[/QUOTE] The only reason Chelsea continues to come up is because trans is still weird to people, so this brings in attention plus its Chelsea Manning she brings up controversy with or without the trans aspect in it. but to answer you question on why should she be the exception, I don't. I think everyone, in and outside prison, should get the medical attention the need, this is were the idea of free health care come into practice. Also I don't think anyone here sees gender dysphoria more important than unipolar depression or any other problem so please don't put words in our mouths.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44861212]well if you do bemoan trans individuals because they're outside the gender binary, then yeah you kinda do have some personal issues that you need to resolve[/QUOTE] Woah, people getting upset because something is out of the ordinary? How unheard of! Seriously though, you can't just bring up a new concept to someone and expect them to immediately agree with it, then yell at them for being a bigot if they don't completely get it in the 5 minutes you gave them. Unless they're familiar with it and advocate their restriction, then you have every right to call them a bigot.

[QUOTE=katbug;44857082]I don't get why a prisoner should get a "cosmetic" (I know it's not actually cosmetic) surgery if they're imprisoned. (and yes, I know that Chelsea Manning was pretty much wrongly convicted) Why should a prisoner get an operation that's extremely expensive while a free woman or man would have to pay?[/QUOTE] dude this is all you do in threads like this, and you've been banned for it numerous times. do you just not care about stuff like this? i'd love to see you get your head out of your butt, but you don't do anything at all about it. [QUOTE=xxncxx;44861244]Woah, people getting upset because something is out of the ordinary? How unheard of! [B]Seriously though, you can't just bring up a new concept to someone and expect them to immediately agree with it, then yell at them for being a bigot if they don't completely get it in the 5 minutes you gave them. Unless they're familiar with it and advocate their restriction, then you have every right to call them a bigot.[/B][/QUOTE] no shit?

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44861212]well if you do bemoan trans individuals because they're outside the gender binary, then yeah you kinda do have some personal issues that you need to resolve[/QUOTE] i'm not sure how trans people are outside the binary they're switching from one to another, but that doesn't mean additional ones exist

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44861330] no shit?[/QUOTE] This is literally all I see you do. You get pissed off at people that disagree with you and then you throw around bigot and <insertsomethinghere>phobe.

[QUOTE=xxncxx;44861418]This is literally all I see you do. You get pissed off at people that disagree with you and then you throw around bigot and <insertsomethinghere>phobe.[/QUOTE] except these people are grown adults and they're probably fully aware of the issue? have you read the context of those posts i'm replying to? what are you even trying to do lmao

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44861441]except these people are grown adults and they're probably fully aware of the issue? have you read the context of those posts i'm replying to? what are you even trying to do lmao[/QUOTE] And yet you act more like a child than they do

[QUOTE=xxncxx;44861452]And yet you act more like a child than they do[/QUOTE] what is this point of this post? your melodrama is mentally exhausting and weird. if you really want to *help* me then don't use stingy insults

[QUOTE=xxncxx;44861244]Woah, people getting upset because something is out of the ordinary? How unheard of! Seriously though, you can't just bring up a new concept to someone and expect them to immediately agree with it, then yell at them for being a bigot if they don't completely get it in the 5 minutes you gave them. Unless they're familiar with it and advocate their restriction, then you have every right to call them a bigot.[/QUOTE] there's a distinct difference between genuinely questioning and trying to understand something new to you and acting like an asshole towards something new to you [editline]20th May 2014[/editline] there's actually no good reason for people to be instantaneously upset because something is out of the norms/out of the ordinary. feel free to be upset [I]after[/I] you've taken time to study and understand what you want to be upset about

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44861412]i'm not sure how trans people are outside the binary they're switching from one to another, but that doesn't mean additional ones exist[/QUOTE] There [i]are[/i] nonbinary people, though. It's just that most media covers only binary trans people, if they cover trans people at all.

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;44861702]There [i]are[/i] nonbinary people, though. It's just that most media covers only binary trans people, if they cover trans people at all.[/QUOTE] Humans are effectively a sexually dimorphic species

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44861817]Humans are effectively a sexually dimorphic species[/QUOTE] I don't think that really matters in the age of computers, information, and society in general. Nobody's obligated to have babies or do anything significant with their biological parts, so I don't see why we can't be more accepting of people who do not or do not wish to conform to rigid gender roles because of biology.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44861964]I don't think that really matters in the age of computers, information, and society in general. Nobody's obligated to have babies or do anything significant with their biological parts, so I don't see why we can't be more accepting of people who do not or do not wish to conform to rigid gender roles because of biology.[/QUOTE] Well yeah we can be accepting of peoples behaviours. It's just that people should be aware that only two sexes exist. (With the rare few cases that are exceptions to the rule).

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44862173]Well yeah we can be accepting of peoples behaviours. It's just that people should be aware that only two sexes exist. (With the rare few cases that are exceptions to the rule).[/QUOTE] Humans are sexually dimorphic but there are a myriad of genders.

[QUOTE=Maloof?;44856625]lol ignorance is different to malicious apathy[/QUOTE] there's no such thing as malicious apathy. The two words are mutually exclusive

[QUOTE=Atlascore;44862522]Congratulations you've never been out in the real world, lots of people get instantly upset about things that are out of the current social norm, old and/or uneducated people especially.[/QUOTE] lol great response calling me a shut in and all of course that shit happens but it shouldn't; rational thinking [I]does[/I] exist in the real world you know

yes, that sucks. does that excuse you for calling me a shut-in? no irrational thinking plagues the LGBT movement, but that doesn't mean it isn't a thing in a majority of people's minds

[QUOTE=Atlascore;44862628]Of course it exists but it's very rare, I mean here we are about 40 years after the LGBT movement really started pushing and states are just now starting to legalize something as simple as gay marriage, and yet still half the country is strongly homophobic.[/QUOTE] are you suddenly the authority on this or something? i'm not following your posts here.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44861125]I'll ask for the fourth time, maybe someone will actually respond, considering how hard it is for an inmate who isn't transgender to seek therapy for their mental issues, why is it so important that Chelsea be the exception in this one case? What is it about gender dysphoria that is more important than something like clinical unipolar depression? Both conditions have a high suicide rate, so that's not it, both conditions affect the prisoner while they are under state care, so that's not it/... I'm at a loss here. Why is this one issue such a big deal when people have been denied mental care for years for conditions that are just as serious, and in some cases the exact same condition.[/QUOTE] there should not. I agree with you. selective judgement base off of precondition not is acceptable. For gid if an depression mentally may have higher priorities than other conditions as of cause to suicide. And for all not of just Chelsea should get treatment. I think point was your lost on many because article and discussion was on Chelsea and transgenders, focus of not whole system. =/ [editline]21st May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;44861232] Also I don't think anyone here sees gender dysphoria more important than unipolar depression or any other problem so please don't put words in our mouths.[/QUOTE] yes

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;44862223]Humans are sexually dimorphic but there are a myriad of genders.[/QUOTE] There's male, female, and a small nontrivial mixed portion. What predictive validity does "gender" have? How are genders other than male and female distinct from mental or developmental disorders? Groups such as Hijiras or two spirits don't count because they are usually religious groups and cults hyped up by anthropologists. Also when people speak of a "third" or "fourth" gender, it's not really anything separate at all. At best it's a mix of the two existing ones. Try imagining what an actual third gender with sustained populations over the long term with a continual presence in history would be like. Nothing at all like female or male.

-dumb, forget it-

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44861026]people can't 'get over' gender dysphoria on a whim. do you tell people to 'get over' physical disabilities or wounds? no. both are issues that require attention.[/QUOTE] I never mentioned "get over it" in my post though? Yeah it's unfortunate that she's stuck in the wrong body but there isn't any reason the government should fix that. She won't instantly drop dead tomorrow for not getting it, and as far as the government is concerned that makes it a non-issue. Yeah she is at a higher chance of committing suicide but that's more easily prevented with suicide watch and therapy than with surgery. It would be great if it was the government's responsibility, but right now it's not.

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;44863148]I never mentioned "get over it" in my post though? Yeah it's unfortunate that she's stuck in the wrong body but there isn't any reason the government should fix that. She won't instantly drop dead tomorrow for not getting it, and as far as the government is concerned that makes it a non-issue. Yeah she is at a higher chance of committing suicide but that's more easily prevented with suicide watch and therapy than with surgery. It would be great if it was the government's responsibility, but right now it's not.[/QUOTE] suicide watch costs money and it would eventually become more expensive, and her well being *is* the government's responsibility. people aren't in prison just for the hell of it.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44863195]suicide watch costs money and it would eventually become more expensive, and her well being *is* the government's responsibility. people aren't in prison just for the hell of it.[/QUOTE] Suicide watch doesn't cost any more than "make sure they break out of prison watch" because they're already being closely monitored. And her *physical* well being is the only thing the government cares about, I should clarify. It doesn't matter if a prisoner is feeling depressed or why, at long as they're alive and physically well. It sucks, but like you said, people aren't in prison for the hell of it.