Chelsea Manning 'may sue' over gender dysphoria therapy - Polidicks

[QUOTE=sam6420;44852905]They put themselves there by breaking the law. Government doesn't walk around like "Oh im bored put this pub in jail lulz"[/QUOTE] which means they are under the governments supervision and care. their issues are the governments issues.

[QUOTE=Paige;44852944]she's a human being with emotional needs and medical needs in this case that need to be fufilled. yes you could theoretically just put someone on suicide watch to keep them from dying but that doesn't solve anything and would probably just make it worse why do you want prisoners to be treated like dirt. they're still human beings.[/QUOTE] why should poor people be treated like dirt, we're still human beings. All I got was 3 days of suicide watch in a room by myself and then sent on my way, until that's fixed I don't think prisoners should be the #1 priority. Where's my lawyer to sue illinois for failing to provide mental healthcare?

[QUOTE=sam6420;44852905]They put themselves there by breaking the law. Government doesn't walk around like "Oh im bored put this pub in jail lulz"[/QUOTE] Just because someone is in jail does not mean they deserve to be put through mental hell.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44852917]This isn't emergency heart surgery, it's therapy. Suicide watch is all that's needed to keep her from dying.[/QUOTE] the difference is that you still have [I]access[/I] to therapy. you can't use that access, necessarily, for financial reasons and for flaws in the healthcare system, but you're not locked inside a building where you can't get a job or go see a private practice. [QUOTE=sam6420;44852963]The issues of the citizens in general are the government's concern, are we going to give people who we locked up to keep away from us better treatment than people who did nothing wrong?[/quote] the solution is not to take manning's healthcare away, the solution is to [I]fucking make it easier for you to get the care you need[/I] [I]there is no point in campaigning to drag everyone down to your level of unhappiness when you could just as easily advocate for something that brings it up for [U]everyone[/U][/I]

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44852945]what are you even doing, and why are you even referring to her as "it". do you know how socially inept and insulting this is?[/QUOTE] yeah I'm pretty sure he's well aware and that's why he did it

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44852917]This isn't emergency heart surgery, it's therapy. Suicide watch is all that's needed to keep her from dying.[/QUOTE] Suicide watch doesnt mean that suicide is 100% impossible. Nor is "hurr shes a criminal" a valid reason to deny someone treatment.

[QUOTE=Paige;44852944]she's a human being with emotional needs and medical needs in this case that need to be fufilled. yes you could theoretically just put someone on suicide watch to keep them from dying but that doesn't solve anything and would probably just make it worse why do you want prisoners to be treated like dirt. they're still human beings.[/QUOTE] because fuck human beings. hail satan abort everyone. But yeah, I do think suicide watch is the bare minimum, and fuck paying for more. If the courts determine gender reassignment surgery is absolutely necessary, whatever, I won't cry about it for more than a second, it's not like I don't EXPECT the government to waste my money on an exorbitantly expensive doctor, but if they decide she doesn't need it, I won't really care, either.

[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44852717]So wait, you leak information that could kill U.S soldiers and you want special treatment? Fuck off, Bradley.[/QUOTE] PSA: don't listen to matthew7434, they've posted a bunch of transphobic shit in other threads over the last few months.

[QUOTE=sam6420;44852963]The issues of the citizens in general are the government's concern, are we going to give people who we locked up to keep away from us better treatment than people who did nothing wrong?[/QUOTE] well gee if the treatment's so good why don't you just go there

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44852953]why should poor people be treated like dirt, we're still human beings. All I got was 3 days of suicide watch in a room by myself and then sent on my way, until that's fixed I don't think prisoners should be the #1 priority. Where's my lawyer to sue illinois for failing to provide mental healthcare?[/QUOTE]Who is saying they should be? Who is arguing that it is ok to treat one group poorly just because another has poor treatment other than you?

maybe I should go commit a murder so I can get access to healthcare then

Fuck me I'm an idiot who can't read

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44852993]maybe I should go commit a murder so I can get access to healthcare then[/QUOTE] [quote=joes33431]the solution is not to take manning's healthcare away, the solution is to [I]fucking make it easier for you to get the care you need[/I] [I]there is no point in campaigning to drag everyone down to your level of unhappiness when you could just as easily advocate for something that brings it up for [U]everyone[/U][/I][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44852953]why should poor people be treated like dirt, we're still human beings. All I got was 3 days of suicide watch in a room by myself and then sent on my way, until that's fixed I don't think prisoners should be the #1 priority. Where's my lawyer to sue illinois for failing to provide mental healthcare?[/QUOTE] just because you are poor does not make you the #1 priority in america. i'm poor as shit and can't even afford to pay my bills and i realize that. yes it sucks and yes i wish it was different but you have to make due with the current system at hand. you can't just say WELP THIS PRISONER DESERVES TO DIE AND WRITHE IN AGONY CUS I DIDN'T GET THE HELP [I]I[/I] WANTED :(( [QUOTE=sam6420;44852963]The issues of the citizens in general are the government's concern, are we going to give people who we locked up to keep away from us better treatment than people who did nothing wrong?[/QUOTE] when you are at a job, if you get hurt it is your jobs responsibility because you were on their property and possibly got hurt because of something they asked you to do. when you are in a prison you are under the governments care and it is their sole and only responsibility to provide you with the things you need to be a functioning human being. You have the ability to go out and seek treatment yourself, a person locked up in one building for 35 years can't do that. [QUOTE=protoAuthor;44852973]because fuck human beings. hail satan abort everyone. But yeah, I do think suicide watch is the bare minimum, and fuck paying for more. If the courts determine gender reassignment surgery is absolutely necessary, whatever, I won't cry about it for more than a second, it's not like I don't EXPECT the government to waste my money on an exorbitantly expensive doctor, but if they decide she doesn't need it, I won't really care, either.[/QUOTE] it really doesn't matter what the courts decide, decades of medical research proves she does need the help.

[QUOTE=sam6420;44852998]This is for this situation specifically.[/QUOTE] Find a single person in this thread who is simultaneously against nationalized healthcare for citizens but for it for prisoners otherwise, stop flinging around strawmen about a country's policies that you don't even live in

[QUOTE=Paige;44853021] it really doesn't matter what the courts decide, decades of medical research proves she does need the help.[/QUOTE] The courts are the ones who are gonna decide whether her case is valid or not, it does matter what they decide.

[QUOTE=sam6420;44852983]And fucking therapy doesn't make it 100% impossible AND costs money.[/QUOTE] Suicide watch costs money too. It also lasts longer if you dont let a person have treatment for their issues. [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=protoAuthor;44853041]The courts are the ones who are gonna decide whether her case is valid or not, it does matter what they decide.[/QUOTE] This of course doesn't mean the courts will make the right decision.

[QUOTE=Paige;44853021]just because you are poor does not make you the #1 priority in america. i'm poor as shit and can't even afford to pay my bills and i realize that. yes it sucks and yes i wish it was different but you have to make due with the current system at hand. you can't just say WELP THIS PRISONER DESERVES TO DIE AND WRITHE IN AGONY CUS I DIDN'T GET THE HELP [I]I[/I] WANTED :(( [/QUOTE] That's not the impression I was trying to give at all, and I'm sorry for my inability to communicate what I'm trying to say. Yes, if she were dying she should definitely be given life-saving care, and yes they should make sure that she doesn't kill herself, but until people who [I]aren't[/I] criminals have access to care like therapy when they need it, I don't see why prisoners should have it. Yes, I think we should bring the level of care up for [B]everyone[/B] but prison is not where it should start. It's unfair to the rest of the law-abiding citizens of the US for her to be given care for a non-life-threatening mental issue when so many of the people on the outside can't get it.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;44853044] This of course doesn't mean the courts will make the right decision.[/QUOTE] Never said that it did, a sad truth. Courts make wrong decisions all the time, but we have to abide by their decisions. Can I also say here how strange I find gender dysphoria? Not in a bad way, I don't look down on people with it, but it's a fascinating subject. Like, how does it occur? Is there a biological reason for it? Is it exacerbated by cultures with stricter gender roles as opposed to looser gender roles?

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853056]That's not the impression I was trying to give at all, and I'm sorry for my inability to communicate what I'm trying to say. Yes, if she were dying she should definitely be given life-saving care, and yes they should make sure that she doesn't kill herself, but until people who [I]aren't[/I] criminals have access to care like therapy when they need it, I don't see why prisoners should have it. Yes, I think we should bring the level of care up for [B]everyone[/B] but prison is not where it should start. It's unfair to the rest of the law-abiding citizens of the US for her to be given care for a [B]non-life-threatening mental issue [/B]when so many of the people on the outside can't get it.[/QUOTE] citation needed please. people who suffer from gender dysphoria can be suicidal and have little regards towards their own life if they have poor or no access to important resources.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853056]That's not the impression I was trying to give at all, and I'm sorry for my inability to communicate what I'm trying to say. Yes, if she were dying she should definitely be given life-saving care, and yes they should make sure that she doesn't kill herself, but until people who [I]aren't[/I] criminals have access to care like therapy when they need it, I don't see why prisoners should have it. Yes, I think we should bring the level of care up for [B]everyone[/B] but prison is not where it should start. It's unfair to the rest of the law-abiding citizens of the US for her to be given care for a non-life-threatening mental issue when so many of the people on the outside can't get it.[/QUOTE] it's already here what is the point of taking it away just to put it back up later (in the event of nationalized healthcare)

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44853066]citation needed please.[/QUOTE] Are you implying that depression is life-threatening in the same way as an open chest wound?

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853083]Are you implying that depression is life-threatening in the same way as an open chest wound?[/QUOTE] stop making this analogy. i've said this a handful of times already: "people who suffer from gender dysphoria can be suicidal and have little regards towards their own life if they have poor or no access to important resources."

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853083]Are you implying that depression is life-threatening in the same way as an open chest wound?[/QUOTE] Not as immediately, but it can be. Didn't you try to kill yourself?

not to draw comparisons but saying gender dysphoria isn't life threatening is like saying schizophrenia isn't life threatening. they might not be sole causes but they are both huge contributions to it and should be treated as such

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44852993]maybe I should go commit a murder so I can get access to healthcare then[/QUOTE] A newsworthy enough carjacking should do the trick just fine. No need to kill unless you want a different kind of treatment altogether or something. Chelsea is the governments responsibility right now, it's not going to look good if someone, a big figure in global politics right now at that, in a maximum security prison manages to kill themselves due to depression. It's in their favour to provide the treatment. The fact it's hard to US citizens outside of prison to get healthcare is not even a factor here, it's just a symptom of the private healthcare system that so consistently fucks you lot over, but you refuse to remove it for some reason. Some kind of weird Stockholm syndrome or something?

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853083]Are you implying that depression is life-threatening in the same way as an open chest wound?[/QUOTE] lol, arguing semantics

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853056]That's not the impression I was trying to give at all, and I'm sorry for my inability to communicate what I'm trying to say. Yes, if she were dying she should definitely be given life-saving care, and yes they should make sure that she doesn't kill herself, but until people who [I]aren't[/I] criminals have access to care like therapy when they need it, I don't see why prisoners should have it. Yes, I think we should bring the level of care up for [B]everyone[/B] but prison is not where it should start. It's unfair to the rest of the law-abiding citizens of the US for her to be given care for a non-life-threatening mental issue when so many of the people on the outside can't get it.[/QUOTE] Do you know why? Because our government isn't a singularity that can make all the changes it wants across simultaneous systems with a stroke of a pen. It's a complex bureaucracy and progress is slow and uneven. Maybe if you focused on fixing your own situation you'd get it fixed faster but instead you fell victim to the in-fighting engineered by propagandists.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;44853098]stop making this analogy. i've said this a handful of times already: "people who suffer from gender dysphoria can be suicidal and have little regards towards their own life if they have poor or no access to important resources."[/QUOTE] i think the point he's trying to make is this: person with an open chest wound: definitely going to die in the immediate future person with gender dysphoria: possibly going to die sometime

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853056]That's not the impression I was trying to give at all, and I'm sorry for my inability to communicate what I'm trying to say. Yes, if she were dying she should definitely be given life-saving care, and yes they should make sure that she doesn't kill herself, but until people who [I]aren't[/I] criminals have access to care like therapy when they need it, I don't see why prisoners should have it. Yes, I think we should bring the level of care up for [B]everyone[/B] but prison is not where it should start. It's unfair to the rest of the law-abiding citizens of the US for her to be given care for a [B]non-life-threatening mental issue [/B]when so many of the people on the outside can't get it.[/QUOTE] no reason to take you seriously anymore. dysphoria is a very life threatening issue. not to mention prison isn't the place that anyone is "starting" as far as healthcare for everyone goes.