Chelsea Manning 'may sue' over gender dysphoria therapy - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Kyle902;44853314]Holy shit stop trying to make people feel sorry for you. I understand you're poor but the thread aint about you. You keep bringing up you being poor and your experience in Illinois.[/QUOTE] Because there are a lot of poor people, and a lot of people in Illinois. Ignoring them does not make them not exist. I'm confident that my story is not unique, or the worst there is to tell about the horror of the american healthcare system when you're broke. For me, it boils down to tax money being spent in a way that maximizes it's effectiveness, and when poor people can't afford life saving medication, prisoners should not be getting therapy that's not necessary to continue living.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853308]From what I understand she leaked a lot of things that needed to be leaked, but wasn't careful about what location sensitive data she was leaking. As a result, troop locations and destinations were leaked which could have cost lives.[/QUOTE] HAS it cost any lives?

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853320]Because there are a lot of poor people, and a lot of people in Illinois. Ignoring them does not make them not exist.[/QUOTE] .... What relevance does this have to the discussion?

[QUOTE=Cructo;44853354]so why should the tax payer have to pay for their own treatment?[/QUOTE] That's what the whole Obamacare debacle is all about and what we're currently trying to fix :v:

[QUOTE=Kyle902;44853331].... What relevance does this have to the discussion?[/QUOTE] because the discussion is about fucking healthcare and poor people can't get it. Hopefully you never have to experience a suicidal thought, and if you do hopefully you are in a position to pay for treatment, but if you end up in a situation where you need care and can't get it, maybe you will understand why so many people don't agree with her getting to talk to a therapist when you couldn't.

[QUOTE=Cructo;44853354]Money isn't more important than anyone's life, but Manning's life is as important as the tax payer's, so why should the tax payer have to pay for their own treatment?[/QUOTE] wait I dont get this statement. You say that money isnt more important then someones life... Then you go on to say that mannings life is as important as money. Are you seriously saying Manning isn't a person? Also what about the tax money Manning paid throughout her life?

[QUOTE=Kyle902;44853378]wait I dont get this statement. You say that money isnt more important then someones life... Then you go on to say that mannings life is as important as money. Are you seriously saying Manning isn't a person? Also what about the tax money Manning paid throughout her life?[/QUOTE] no, he said tax payer's lives not money he said the tax payer's lives are as important as hers, so why should we go the extra mile to give her therapy when a lot of tax payers cant get it

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853372]because the discussion is about fucking healthcare and poor people can't get it[/QUOTE] What the hell? So if I was the thread is about Ukrainian militias and I bring up gun control in the US is it relevant? No it isn't. This thread is not about poor people, illinois, or public mental health (or any combination of the three). [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=frozensoda;44853390]no, he said tax payer's lives not money he said the tax payer's lives are as important as hers, so why should we go the extra mile to give her therapy when a lot of tax payers cant get it[/QUOTE] Oh I misread that. Regardless of that Manning was a tax payer so that argument works both ways.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;44853396]What the hell? So if I was the thread is about Ukrainian militias and I bring up gun control in the US is it relevant? No it isn't. This thread is not about poor people, illinois, or public mental health (or any combination of the three).[/QUOTE] It's funny how the posts preceding and after that one have guided the discussion to where it is, and then you say that's not what the thread is about :v: besides all that what about the other prisoners who have mental health problems, can't get care, but aren't famous so no one gives a shit

Surely he's not entitled to treatment like this. Give him therapy, and don't neglect the issue obviously but this seems a bit too much to demand.

[QUOTE=Jebus;44853432]Surely he's not entitled to treatment like this. Give him therapy, and don't neglect the issue obviously but this seems a bit too much to demand.[/QUOTE] She. Maybe we forego the surgery, and just give her therapy? Split the difference? I dunno. I don't really care if they give her the surgery, too, to be honest.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853405]It's funny how the posts preceding and after that one have guided the discussion to where it is, and then you say that's not what the thread is about :v:[/QUOTE] This thread isn't about public healthcare, its to say whether or not her gender dysphoria should get treatment in prison. Its not about how taxpayers have to pay for their treatment when prisoners get free healthcare. It sucks you don't get the treatment you deserve, but that's a problem with the healthcare system and is totally irrelevant to the topic.

[QUOTE=protoAuthor;44853439]She. Maybe we forego the surgery, and just give her therapy? Split the difference? I dunno. I don't really care if they give her the surgery, too, to be honest.[/QUOTE] we give her the resources she needs to survive like [I]any other prisoner. [/I]if that includes surgery, therapy, and a lifetime of hormone treatments paid for by the government then so be it.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44852993]maybe I should go commit a murder so I can get access to healthcare then[/QUOTE] Once again you've managed to prove that you've got a massive misunderstanding about privilege and how it applies to you and others, and how you have this serious case of "you can't feel that way because I feel worse [I]in a thread that has not much to do with wealth and general healthcare. [/I] I'm really sorry that you're poor and you've been treated like shit throughout your life, but your life being bad doesn't mean that others [I]can't[/I] have it worse off. Like, I remember in some thread about institutionalized racism you went "I'm white and I'm poor so this doesn't mean anything." You were a statistical outlier in that situation, yet you were convinced that your situation somehow debunked how poverty was tied to racism? Like, I live in the east bay in California. In the town I'm in, families make anywhere from like, 250k to 800k a year. That's a fuckton of money, so that must mean I'm rich too, right? Not really, because, [I]relative to them,[/I] my family is poor, despite us earning ~3 times the average poverty line of $23,550 (for a family of 4).

[QUOTE=Paige;44853470]we give her the resources she needs to survive like [I]any other prisoner. [/I]if that includes surgery, therapy, and a lifetime of hormone treatments paid for by the government then so be it.[/QUOTE] I dunno. If we can do it with just the therapy, we could save both her life and taxpayer money. If it's gonna take the other shit, fine, but don't just jump to it.

I don't think there's much danger of this being a life threatening condition because of how closely the prisoners are watched. Ms. Manning is going to have to pull some frankly amazing shit to succeed in suicide. While under the care of the government, she is already being protected from herself, which is all the government currently is expected to do; protect their prisoners from harm.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;44853449]This thread isn't about public healthcare, its to say whether or not her gender dysphoria should get treatment in prison. Its not about how taxpayers have to pay for their treatment when prisoners get free healthcare. It sucks you don't get the treatment you deserve, but that's a problem with the healthcare system and is totally irrelevant to the topic.[/QUOTE] How can you say that the healthcare system is irrelevant to this topic when A. it's about prisoners healthcare and B. the #1 issue I and other people have with her getting this treatment is indeed the state of the healthcare system for everyone else

[QUOTE=Jebus;44853432]Surely he's not entitled to treatment like this. Give him therapy, and don't neglect the issue obviously but this seems a bit too much to demand.[/QUOTE] I'd love to hear your reasoning as to why [I]she's[/I] not. Also PLEASE use correct pronouns. You may scoff and go "haha *tumblr joke*" but gender identity is an actually serious problem. [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=frozensoda;44853494]How can you say that the healthcare system is irrelevant to this topic when A. it's about prisoners healthcare and B. the #1 issue I and other people have with her getting this treatment is indeed the state of the healthcare system for everyone else[/QUOTE] It's unanimous in this thread that the healthcare system should be reformed. Literally nobody disagrees with you, but you've got this [I]terrible[/I] "what about me" attitude. So yeah, I'd say it's pretty irrelevant [I]right now[/I], so instead we're talking about whether or not Chelsea (and other trans prisoners, I guess) is entitled to gender dysphoria treatment in addition to her regular stuff.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44853492]I don't think there's much danger of this being a life threatening condition because of how closely the prisoners are watched. Ms. Manning is going to have to pull some frankly amazing shit to succeed in suicide. While under the care of the government, she is already being protected from herself.[/QUOTE] regardless of wether or not she can kill herself, she still has emotional needs to be met. prison isn't supposed to be a place where you sit in horrible misery for 35 years while no one listens to your cries for help and only gives you a tray of food a day. its supposed to be a place for rehabilitating people who committed a crime into law abiding productive citizens.

Oh boy another case where convicts demand more medical rights than law abiding citizens...yay..

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853494]How can you say that the healthcare system is irrelevant to this topic when A. it's about prisoners healthcare and B. the #1 issue I and other people have with her getting this treatment is indeed the state of the healthcare system for everyone else[/QUOTE] Because B isn't the topic at hand here? Chelsea is under the governments care, if [B]anything[/B] negative happens to her, they get their shit kicked. It is literally their best option to treat Chelsea as needed to ensure someone in the public eye doesn't die on their watch. The public on the other hand are meant to be independent from the government, if the government isn't providing it, you've got to source it yourself. B is completely irrelevant.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44853505]I'd love to hear your reasoning as to why [I]she's[/I] not. Also PLEASE use correct pronouns. You may scoff and go "haha *tumblr joke*" but gender identity is an actually serious problem.[/QUOTE] Actually I just read through the thread and decided it's probably not even worth explaining my reasoning, still hope he does get some therapy though.

[QUOTE=Paige;44853536]regardless of wether or not she can kill herself, she still has emotional needs to be met. prison isn't supposed to be a place where you sit in horrible misery for 35 years while no one listens to your cries for help and only gives you a tray of food a day. its supposed to be a place for rehabilitating people who committed a crime into law abiding productive citizens.[/QUOTE] Well that's more about fundamental penal system reform than about gender social issues, because currently prison is not meant to be a pleasant place to live; as far as the state is concerned, she does not need to be emotionally satisfied with her life. It's punishment, not rehabilitation. She is fed, she is protected from harm, and that's the end of the government's responsibility under the current system.

also frozensoda [I]please[/I] we get it. you're poor. lots of people are in your situation. we know. literally everybody knows this. we're just not talking about it right now, much like how bringing up male circumcision in a thread about female circumcision isn't relevant (anyone remember that lol). like, read the thread title and the little blurb in the OP [quote]A lawyer for convicted US document leaker Chelsea Manning has threatened to sue the Army if she is not given sex change therapy in military prison. Nancy Hollander said the Army had an obligation to treat Pte First Class Manning for her "transgender issues". And she said Pte Manning would not be safe if transferred to a civilian prison for treatment there. Formerly known as Bradley, Pte Manning is serving a 35-year sentence for leaking classified files to Wikileaks. After her conviction last year, the former Army intelligence analyst announced she wanted to live as a woman.[/quote] this is a trans issue. this is not a poor person issue. that doesn't mean what you're going through is any more or less important, just that [I]we are not talking about it here, go to another thread.[/I]

Also, why is Manning still being referred to as a PFC? Didn't she get dishonorably discharged?

[QUOTE=Jebus;44853556]Actually I just read through the thread and decided it's probably not even worth explaining my reasoning, still hope he does get some therapy though.[/QUOTE] Is that code for "nobody will rate my transphobic posts agree and I get upset if I get boxes" or what? Don't come in and lead us on with your potentially transphobic opinions unless you're willing to stand your ground and explain.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44853596]Is that code for "nobody will rate my transphobic posts agree and I get upset if I get boxes" or what? Don't come in and lead us on with your potentially transphobic opinions unless you're willing to stand your ground and explain.[/QUOTE] No it's code for "everybody who's just a little bit over-opinionated flocks to a thread with 'gender' in the title and violently reacts to anybody who doesn't completely agree with their view on whatever human rights atrocity is making headlines this week" Seriously take a deep breath mate

over-opinionated? rofl

[QUOTE=Jebus;44853622]No it's code for "everybody who's just a little bit over-opinionated flocks to a thread with 'gender' in the title and violently reacts to anybody who doesn't completely agree with their view on whatever human rights atrocity is making headlines this week" Seriously take a deep breath mate[/QUOTE] It's a pretty fucking big issue. Of course people are going to get riled up over it. Seriously think for a second mate

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853494]How can you say that the healthcare system is irrelevant to this topic when A. it's about prisoners healthcare and B. the #1 issue I and other people have with her getting this treatment is indeed the state of the healthcare system for everyone else[/QUOTE] Because the article is about whether or not she should get treatment in prison, not about general public. If this was about her not being able to get her treatment outside of prison then yeah you might have a point, [B]but that's a problem with the whole nation's healthcare.[/B] You are acting extremely selfish to say she shouldn't because you don't. The point is in prison the government and prison system is in charge of your safety and health. in public they expect you to care for yourself which is dumb and impossible at times with the costs of healthcare. That is why everyone agrees the healthcare system is fucked up, but no one should be denied healthcare in prison.