Chelsea Manning 'may sue' over gender dysphoria therapy - Polidicks

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44853577]also frozensoda [I]please[/I] we get it. you're poor. lots of people are in your situation. we know. literally everybody knows this. we're just not talking about it right now, much like how bringing up male circumcision in a thread about female circumcision isn't relevant (anyone remember that lol). like, read the thread title and the little blurb in the OP this is a trans issue. this is not a poor person issue. that doesn't mean what you're going through is any more or less important, just that [I]we are not talking about it here, go to another thread.[/I][/QUOTE] Well, I don't think it's a trans issue at all, I think it's a healthcare issue. I'm not talking about myself anymore, and I haven't been for the last 5 posts. I don't give a fuck if she wanted to be a martian and needed therapy for that, the fact is that until [B]people who don't fucking leak government documents and endanger the lives of soldiers can get this kind of non-life-saving care then she shouldn't either[/B] not just me, but everyone who is less fortunate and can't get therapy. This is the issue, sweeping my concern under the rug and patronizing me does not make it irrelevant. This therapy is not going to directly stop her from dying, so it's unnecessary. I flat out disagree that this therapy is required for her to continue being alive.

people in prison getting mental health therapy aren't causing general civilians not to literally 'if i can't have this nobody can'

[QUOTE=Cructo;44853700]it's causing me to pay for her treatment[/QUOTE] Oh god a whole fraction of a cent! Such hardship! Just get national healthcare sorted, holy shit.

My memory is faint, but there was a similar procedure done in a prison for a murderer. It's mostly weird that the government is hesitant about it, is there some loop hole that they're afraid of tackling?

[QUOTE=Jebus;44853622]No it's code for "everybody who's just a little bit over-opinionated flocks to a thread with 'gender' in the title and violently reacts to anybody who doesn't completely agree with their view on whatever human rights atrocity is making headlines this week" Seriously take a deep breath mate[/QUOTE] sorry for my opinion of "trans people exist and i'm not going to be an idiot and judge every single one of them based on some loud people on twitter or tumblr or whatever??" you must be truly persecuted for your opinion, though. don't worry, the majority of the population will still accept you, much like how they accepted homophobes in the 80's.

...and? if you don't want to pay taxes then go ahead and inform the government ahead of time :) bloody hell, so much posting

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44853492]I don't think there's much danger of this being a life threatening condition because of how closely the prisoners are watched. Ms. Manning is going to have to pull some frankly amazing shit to succeed in suicide. While under the care of the government, she is already being protected from herself, which is all the government currently is expected to do; protect their prisoners from harm.[/QUOTE] and as other countries have demonstrated, that's not what it should be.

[QUOTE=Paige;44853721]and as other countries have demonstrated, that's not what it should be.[/QUOTE] Then write a letter to your local representative, it will get a lot more done than complaining about it to me. Shit sucks, but as far as I'm concerned the "life-threatening condition" worry I see echoed throughout this thread is not valid as she is under the watchful eye of the US penal system. If somebody's heart is in danger of failing, they give treatment to protect the heart. If somebody is likely to kill themselves, they prevent them from killing themselves. Whether or not the torture is justified is indicative of issues with the US penal system and not healthcare reform.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853646]Well, I don't think it's a trans issue at all, I think it's a healthcare issue. I'm not talking about myself anymore, and I haven't been for the last 5 posts. I don't give a fuck if she wanted to be a martian and needed therapy for that, the fact is that until [B]people who don't fucking leak government documents and endanger the lives of soldiers can get this kind of non-life-saving care then she shouldn't either[/B] not just me, but everyone who is less fortunate and can't get therapy. This is the issue, sweeping my concern under the rug and patronizing me does not make it irrelevant. This therapy is not going to directly stop her from dying, so it's unnecessary. [B]I flat out disagree that this therapy is required for her to continue being alive.[/B][/QUOTE] As someone who is dating a transgender person and suffers from depression, you are being a massive asshat. just because its not life threatening to you doesn't meant its fucking life threatening for anyone else. No one is sweeping your problems under the rug, we are just saying its not part of the article. I wish I could get some therapy for my depression but its too expensive. Am I going to get pissed when someone in prison gets that treatment? no, because its fucking terrible and i'm glad they are getting help. Stop being so damn selfish and close minded.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44853646]This therapy is not going to directly stop her from dying, so it's unnecessary. I flat out disagree that this therapy is required for her to continue being alive.[/QUOTE] I was going to take a sentence earlier on in your post to highlight and go "you lost me here" but I think this one takes the cake. Not only are you bringing in a NEARLY (I changed the adjective so you won't patronize me anymore) irrelevant topic into this thread, but you're proving that you're absolutely [I]clueless[/I] about trans rights, which makes it almost impossible for me to argue my main point: [I]Why should a prisoner be denied their rights to surgery and therapy in a life threatening situation?[/I] Since you are completely unsympathetic towards trans dudes and dudettes, you'll just go "No, [I]I[/I] disagree" much like how you argue in threads about racism, poverty, and wealth for people who [I]aren't you. [/I] Try to have an ounce of empathy for once? You are not trans. You've most likely met or spoken to anyone who's trans aside from this forum. You probably, judging by how you're downplaying a serious issue like this, don't have any trans friends, so you have no idea what it's like. Normally this "you can't have an opinion" shit doesn't fly for me in arguments, but I'd say that it works here. You aren't even attempting to understand other people, you aren't giving people [I]who in no way at fucking all[/I] will affect your life the benefit of the doubt and respecting them; your behavior, and Jebus' is just downright unacceptable. That's really upsetting to me too considering how I've seen you talk about gay rights in other threads. [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] Also that bit about them being less entitled to treatment because of their crime? What the fuck? And this is coming from the guy who is vehemently pushing the topic of universal healthcare and wealth? What's your damage, dude?

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853540]Oh boy another case where convicts demand more medical rights than law abiding citizens...yay..[/QUOTE] Lol yeah who the fuck do convicted felons think they are? [i]Humans?[/i] [b]PFFFFFT.[/b]

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;44853825]Lol yeah who the fuck do convicted felons think they are? [i]Humans?[/i] [b]PFFFFFT.[/b][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853540]Oh boy another case where convicts demand [b]more medical rights than law abiding citizens[/b]...yay..[/QUOTE] Seems fair right?

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44853728]Then write a letter to your local representative, it will get a lot more done than complaining about it to me. Shit sucks, but as far as I'm concerned the "life-threatening condition" worry I see echoed throughout this thread is not valid as she is under the watchful eye of the US penal system. If somebody's heart is in danger of failing, they give treatment to protect the heart. If somebody is likely to kill themselves, they prevent them from killing themselves. Whether or not the torture is justified is indicative of issues with the US penal system and not healthcare reform.[/QUOTE] what's with people on this forum going "complaining here isn't going to change anything!!" well, yeah, okay? i'm sorry that people on discussion forums with differing opinions may want to have arguments without having to significantly alter how society works? but i guess we shouldn't talk about any sort of issues on here because it won't "achieve anything."

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853850]Seems fair right?[/QUOTE] Uh... yeah? Just because they're a convicted felon doesn't mean they don't have rights, asshole. What's next, you're going to tell me its okay to euthanize felons?

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853850]Seems fair right?[/QUOTE] Today I learned prisoners don't have human rights or medical needs.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;44853867]Uh... yeah? Just because they're a convicted felon doesn't mean they don't have rights, asshole. What's next, you're going to tell me its okay to euthanize felons?[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. Read carefully. [b]Prisoners are getting better treatment for committing their crimes, than law abiding citizens who work their asses off and pay their taxes.[/b]

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853896]I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. Read carefully. [b]Prisoners are getting better treatment for committing their crimes, than law abiding citizens who work their asses off and pay their taxes.[/b][/QUOTE] Aaaaaaaaand? [editline]sadlk[/editline] Seriously, what is your point? Your taxes are what gives them the treatment.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;44852537]i'm not saying no she doesn't need them but it's incredibly hard to kill yourself in a maximum security military prison[/QUOTE] Oh great, now it's just cruel and unusual punishment that you're wracked with the feeling that your blood isn't your own and there's nothing you'll ever possibly be able to do to make it better.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853896]I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. Read carefully. [B]Prisoners are getting better treatment for committing their crimes, than law abiding citizens who work their asses off and pay their taxes.[/B][/QUOTE] so what, a person with type 1 diabetes shouldn't get insulin shots because they're in prison? that's what your argument literally sounds like.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;44853906]Aaaaaaaaand?[/QUOTE] You don't see a problem there? Seriously? You and I have less medical rights than a fucking murder! And you're okay with that?

[QUOTE=Cructo;44852621]good thing we the non-criminal population suffering from depression have to pay for our treatment[/QUOTE] nO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR IT It's the biggest hypocrisy that everyone has an inherent right to be alive, but not an inherent right to get treatment that'll KEEP US ALIVE

Shit I might as well go murder someone right now. Get free room and board, all of my medical needs taken care of for free (at tax payers expense), 3 meals a day, an hour of free time, cable tv, and internet. Fuck man. Sounds like the life.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853896]I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. Read carefully. [b]Prisoners are getting better treatment for committing their crimes, than law abiding citizens who work their asses off and pay their taxes.[/b][/QUOTE] The thing is, prisoners are in the direct supervision and care of the prison they're in, whereas "law abiding citizens" are not. I'm not saying it's not bad, but prisons have a precedent to take care of their prisoners.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853914]You don't see a problem there? Seriously? You and I have less medical rights than a fucking murder! And you're okay with that?[/QUOTE] Number 1: She's not a murderer you tit. She was convicted of espionage. Number 2: No, I don't see anything wrong with it.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853896]I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. Read carefully. [b]Prisoners are getting better treatment for committing their crimes, than law abiding citizens who work their asses off and pay their taxes.[/b][/QUOTE] you can go ahead and join them if you'd like tbh

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853914]You don't see a problem there? Seriously? You and I have less medical rights than a fucking murder! And you're okay with that?[/QUOTE] Yes. [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853932]Shit I might as well go murder someone right now. Get free room and board, all of my medical needs taken care of for free (at tax payers expense), 3 meals a day, an hour of free time, cable tv, and internet. Fuck man. Sounds like the life.[/QUOTE] Sure, if you're sociopathic enough to do that. But prison is for reform (or, is supposed to be for reform), which is why we're not supposed to treat them like dirt.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853932]Shit I might as well go murder someone right now. Get free room and board, all of my medical needs taken care of for free (at tax payers expense), 3 meals a day, an hour of free time, cable tv, and internet. Fuck man. Sounds like the life.[/QUOTE] guess what you miss out on if you do that 1- the ability to ever leave that cell 2- social life 3- the ability to make a future 4- a schedule that doesn't revolve around men with batons watching you as you eat, shit, or sleep but yeah, sounds like a plan, stan. go ahead.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853914]You don't see a problem there? Seriously? You and I have less medical rights than a fucking murder! And you're okay with that?[/QUOTE] it is an establishment they have to spend a very long period of time in. they don't just get to leave whenever they want. you have just as many rights as they do, you even have someone handing shit down to you via almost every job's medical insurance.

I can't believe people are actually so outraged that Chelsea wants therapy (I believe she's entirely entitled to it honestly), let alone jealous of prisoners for getting healthcare. Haven't they noticed how horrible healthcare for US prisoners is? It's not even like everybody gets treatment in time or at all, especially if it's a superprison or underequipped. America, your penal and healthcare systems are fucked up.

Manning received an offer to do it in a federal prison, but she requested it to be done in a military facility because she felt that it wasn't safe. Considering how urgent her situation is, it's unlikely, so she probably to challenge or prompt reform.