Chelsea Manning 'may sue' over gender dysphoria therapy - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;44854017]I can't believe people are actually so outraged that Chelsea wants therapy (I believe she's entirely entitled to it honestly), let alone jealous of prisoners for getting healthcare. Haven't they noticed how horrible healthcare for US prisoners is? It's not even like everybody gets treatment in time or at all, especially if it's a superprison or underequipped. America, your penal and healthcare systems are fucked up.[/QUOTE] I'm reminded of the transgender episode of Orange is the New Black. The prison got a new healthcare contract (or something) which caused some people's prescriptions to change. One of the ones was the trans character, who had her HRT dose significantly lowered to the point of making it ineffective (in turn causing her to go through withdrawal). She had to fight pretty damn hard to get them to listen because no one there gave a shit simply for being trans/a criminal. Criminals in prison are treated badly despite having rights.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;44853932]Shit I might as well go murder someone right now. Get free room and board, all of my medical needs taken care of for free (at tax payers expense), 3 meals a day, an hour of free time, cable tv, and internet. Fuck man. Sounds like the life.[/QUOTE] go ahead and lose all your public freedoms, yes this is a great idea you should go through with it.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44853853]what's with people on this forum going "complaining here isn't going to change anything!!" well, yeah, okay? i'm sorry that people on discussion forums with differing opinions may want to have arguments without having to significantly alter how society works? but i guess we shouldn't talk about any sort of issues on here because it won't "achieve anything."[/QUOTE] Because you people act like you want change, and I want to see you do something about it for once.

I was under impression plastic surgery doesn't qualify for free healthcare.

[QUOTE=sam6420;44852905]They put themselves there by breaking the law. Government doesn't walk around like "Oh im bored put this pub in jail lulz"[/QUOTE] Second reminder that Chelsea's only crime is revealing the fact that members of the US military consistently performed human rights abuses which are completely illegal including the killing of journalists.

Ok seriously, she is not going to die if she doesn't receive the treatment. All the people comparing it to a diabetic and other medical conditions is just stupid, its unfortunate for her but the government isn't going to pay for surgery so she can be comfortable, especially when its non life-threatening.

[QUOTE=flamehead5;44854315]Ok seriously, she is not going to die if she doesn't receive the treatment she's not going to die. All the people comparing it to a diabetic and other medical conditions is just stupid, its unfortunate for her but the government isn't going to pay for surgery so she can be comfortable, especially when its non life-threatening.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=maxumym;44854281]I was under impression plastic surgery doesn't qualify for free healthcare.[/QUOTE] it's not just a damn surgery. it's not about "comfort" in the way you're thinking about either. its more or less a physical deformity she's trying to get corrected.

[QUOTE=Paige;44854331]it's not just a damn surgery. it's not about "comfort" in the way you're thinking about either. its more or less a physical deformity she's trying to get corrected.[/QUOTE] So if I were in her legal shoes, would I be able to get a hunchback fixed, or something similar?

[QUOTE=flamehead5;44854315]Ok seriously, she is not going to die if she doesn't receive the treatment she's not going to die. All the people comparing it to a diabetic and other medical conditions is just stupid, its unfortunate for her but the government isn't going to pay for surgery so she can be comfortable, especially when its non life-threatening.[/QUOTE] yeah, if someone has schizophrenia or clinical depression, we should tell them to get over it and just wait it out. excellent idea.

Also a reminder that not giving her this treatment is considered abuse of non-POW's which is criminal in international law and ironically, again, is what Chelsea Manning exposed.

[QUOTE=flamehead5;44854315]Ok seriously, she is not going to die if she doesn't receive the treatment she's not going to die. All the people comparing it to a diabetic and other medical conditions is just stupid, its unfortunate for her but the government isn't going to pay for surgery so she can be comfortable, especially when its non life-threatening.[/QUOTE] It is life threatening. Do you know how awful it feels like to be disconnected from your body all your life?

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;44854407]It is life threatening. Do you know how awful it feels like to be disconnected from your body all your life?[/QUOTE] Yeah, and I don't even have gender dysphoria, I just have a small dick

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44853803]I was going to take a sentence earlier on in your post to highlight and go "you lost me here" but I think this one takes the cake. Not only are you bringing in a NEARLY (I changed the adjective so you won't patronize me anymore) irrelevant topic into this thread, but you're proving that you're absolutely [I]clueless[/I] about trans rights, which makes it almost impossible for me to argue my main point: [I]Why should a prisoner be denied their rights to surgery and therapy in a life threatening situation?[/I] Since you are completely unsympathetic towards trans dudes and dudettes, you'll just go "No, [I]I[/I] disagree" much like how you argue in threads about racism, poverty, and wealth for people who [I]aren't you. [/I] Try to have an ounce of empathy for once? You are not trans. You've most likely met or spoken to anyone who's trans aside from this forum. You probably, judging by how you're downplaying a serious issue like this, don't have any trans friends, so you have no idea what it's like. Normally this "you can't have an opinion" shit doesn't fly for me in arguments, but I'd say that it works here. You aren't even attempting to understand other people, you aren't giving people [I]who in no way at fucking all[/I] will affect your life the benefit of the doubt and respecting them; your behavior, and Jebus' is just downright unacceptable.[B] That's really upsetting to me too considering how I've seen you talk about gay rights in other threads.[/B] [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] Also that bit about them being less entitled to treatment because of their crime? What the fuck? And this is coming from the guy who is vehemently pushing the topic of universal healthcare and wealth? What's your damage, dude?[/QUOTE] What exactly are you talking about? This is the second time you have made a veiled accusation about me being homophobic or transphobic based on "my earlier posts" but I haven't ever made a post that would suggest that. I said before that this I don't think this is a transgender issue because that would suggest that the mental issues of a transgender person are somehow more important than other people's, and they are certainly not. I don't think it's right that transgender prisoners should have their therapy paid for by the state and carried out because people who aren't in the prison can't get it done for free, and because other prisoners who have serious mental issues don't get care other than suicide watch. What is it about her being a transgender that makes that specific affliction more important than others that are just as serious? I think that if they are going to allow this, then it should be allowed for anyone who wants it period. You and others are taking my comments as "she shouldn't get the therapy period" but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that she should get the therapy [B]and so should everyone else[/B] and until law abiding citizens can have access then it's wrong for her to get the therapy. I never once said she shouldn't be allowed to have it, I have been saying that it's wrong for her to get it when others who aren't criminals can't. I'm not with these other people who are purposefully using the wrong pronouns and holding these opinions out of hate or whatever reason they do that. This is an issue that hits close to home for me, and I think that you are being condescending in "calling me out" on being "ignorant of trans rights" this isn't a trans rights issue, it's a mental healthcare issue. My opinion on this has nothing to do with her being transgender, if it were someone who was abused as a child and they wanted to see a therapist, I would hold the exact same opinion [I]not until people who aren't criminals can get it too.[/I] It's not right that there is literally an incentive for people who live in areas like mine to go to prison. I am not saying that ironically, I literally know people who would rather be in jail than what's out here for them. That cannot be and allowing access to mental healthcare that you can't get otherwise is an incentive to go to prison.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44854414] You and others are taking my comments as "she shouldn't get the therapy period" but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that she should get the therapy and so should everyone else a[B]nd until law abiding citizens can have access then it's wrong for her to get the therapy.[/B] I never once said she shouldn't be allowed to have it, I have been saying that it's wrong for her to get it when others who aren't criminals can't. [/QUOTE] [quote=.Lain;44853659] literally 'if i can't have this nobody can' [/quote]

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44854414]What exactly are you talking about? This is the second time you have made a veiled accusation about me being homophobic or transphobic based on "my earlier posts" but I haven't ever made a post that would suggest that. I said before that this I don't think this is a transgender issue because that would suggest that the mental issues of a transgender person are somehow more important than other people's, and they are certainly not. I don't think it's right that transgender prisoners should have their therapy paid for by the state and carried out because people who aren't in the prison can't get it done for free, and because other prisoners who have serious mental issues don't get care other than suicide watch. What is it about her being a transgender that makes that specific affliction more important than others that are just as serious? I think that if they are going to allow this, then it should be allowed for anyone who wants it period. [B]You and others are taking my comments as "she shouldn't get the therapy period" but that's not what I'm saying.[/B] I'm saying that she should get the therapy [B]and so should everyone else[/B] and until law abiding citizens can have access then it's wrong for her to get the therapy. I never once said she shouldn't be allowed to have it, I have been saying that it's wrong for her to get it when others who aren't criminals can't.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=frozensoda;44852917]This isn't emergency heart surgery, it's therapy. Suicide watch is all that's needed to keep her from dying.[/QUOTE] whoops did i say that out loud.

one issue shouldn't have to lead to another

[QUOTE=flamehead5;44854315]Ok seriously, she is not going to die if she doesn't receive the treatment she's not going to die. All the people comparing it to a diabetic and other medical conditions is just stupid, its unfortunate for her but the government isn't going to pay for surgery so she can be comfortable, especially when its non life-threatening.[/QUOTE] "got clinical depression? tough luck, deal without your meds because you're in prison now, bucko"

[QUOTE=codemaster85;44854505]whoops did i say that out loud.[/QUOTE] What part of [quote]This isn't emergency heart surgery, it's therapy. Suicide watch is all that's needed to keep her from dying.[/quote] is this a suggestion about what to do? What part of that says "she shouldn't get it" what that says is it's all that's needed to keep her alive, not that's all she should get. Unless we interpret english differently, that sentence is not a suggestion about what care to deliver. [editline]20th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=.Lain;44854499]. literally 'if i can't have this nobody can'[/QUOTE] no literally "it's not right that she gets care when other people who aren't convicted felons don't"

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44854519]What part of is this a suggestion about what to do? What part of that says "she shouldn't get it" what that says is it's all that's needed to keep her alive, not that's all she should get. Unless we interpret english differently, that sentence is not a suggestion about what care to deliver. [editline]20th May 2014[/editline] no literally "it's not right that she gets care when other people who aren't convicted felons don't"[/QUOTE] you just literally said it was wrong for her to get care. are you blind?

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44854276]Because you people act like you want change, and I want to see you do something about it for once.[/QUOTE] so are you telling me that it's a roundabout way of saying "get a life?"

[QUOTE=codemaster85;44854561]you just literally said it was wrong for her to get care. are you blind?[/QUOTE] it being wrong =/= she shouldn't actually get it in the end it's morally wrong in my opinion

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44854573]it being wrong =/= she shouldn't get it it's morally wrong in my opinion[/QUOTE] Well, that's good to know. I hope in the future we'll hear more from you about this situation as it develops.

A trans person's issues aren't more important than anybody else's (well, in some parts I would disagree, but this is a blanket statement) but if they are experiencing dysphoria then treating them is not a whole lot harder than getting them on proper blockers/hormones and letting them see a therapist. Like, sure, their problems may not be more important than somebody else's, but if they're easy to treat, then why not?

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;44854582]Well, that's good to know. I hope in the future we'll hear more from you about this situation as it develops.[/QUOTE] oh you cheeky bugger

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;44854582]Well, that's good to know. I hope in the future we'll hear more from you about this situation as it develops.[/QUOTE] why does everyone always devolve into "shut up you opinion is irrelevant" like this isn't an internet forum where you post your opinion.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44854573]it being wrong =/= she shouldn't actually get it in the end it's morally wrong in my opinion[/QUOTE] whats wrong is the healthcare of this country not her getting the treatment, which you are heavily insinuating "if i don't get it, why does she get it".

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44854590]why does everyone always devolve into "shut up you opinion is irrelevant" like this isn't an internet forum where you post your opinion.[/QUOTE] Exactly, what kind of forum would this be if people didn't post opinions like "it's morally wrong to follow the UN charter on the humane and proper treatment when it comes to prisoners"? What would that even look like?

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44854570]so are you telling me that it's a roundabout way of saying "get a life?"[/QUOTE] whatever you want

[QUOTE=codemaster85;44854598]whats wrong is the healthcare of this country not her getting the treatment, which you are heavily insinuating [B]"if i don't get it, why does she get it"[/B].[/QUOTE] This is kind of close to the reason I think it's morally wrong, but not really "I" but more everyone who's in a position like mine. But again, I just think it's wrong that she gets it while others who aren't criminals don't [B]my problem is not that she's getting help, she should get help, everyone should get help when they need it and until everyone can get help it's morally wrong for criminals to get better care than law abiding citizens.[/B] I don't know how else to say that I am [B]not[/B] upset about her getting care, I'm upset that criminals have a better standard of care than poor people. None of that means she shouldn't actually get the care in the end [I]just that i think it's morally wrong when put in the context of the entire country[/I] and also in context of other criminals who have other serious mental dysfunctions themselves. They don't get this kind of care in a lot of cases, and they certainly don't have a high priced attorney to fight for them. I hope that for once just this one time you people as a whole and specifically milkandcooki take off the glasses that make you think I'm some kind of redneck bigot and actually read and understand what I am saying.

i still don't get why you actually think that but ok [editline]20th May 2014[/editline] a half-baked medical system is better than no medical system