Hillary Clinton is the presumptive Democratic nominee - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;50468377]This is going to be the saddest election in a while.[/QUOTE] Saddest? It's a fuckin nightmare. Unless Hillary gets arrested, America has the prime choice of choosing between a con-man and a con-woman.

[QUOTE=danjee;50468758]A or B is going to happen this time around. I want the less bad thing to happen.[/QUOTE] Great. I'd rather not have my ballot associated with any bad thing.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;50468768]Great. I'd rather not have my ballot associated with any bad thing.[/QUOTE] so you care enough about america and american politics to vote for and support bernie (who also talks about how people SHOULD vote for hillary instead of doing write in bullshit), but not enough to vote against trump, the person who is basically the polar opposite of bernie and everything he stands for, and will most likely win if many bernie supporters dont vote? thats pretty childish and pathetic, honestly.

[QUOTE=Naught;50468779]so you care enough about america and american politics to vote for and support bernie (who also talks about how people SHOULD vote for hillary instead of doing write in bullshit), but not enough to vote against trump, the person who is basically the polar opposite of bernie and everything he stands for, and will most likely win if many bernie supporters dont vote? thats pretty childish and pathetic, honestly.[/QUOTE] Bernie also said Hillary has to win us over if she is the nominee. So far, she hasn't, and likely never will. Is that childish and pathetic as well? If Hillary can't win without Bernie supporters, the DNC shouldn't have put her up on the pedestal they have. Their fuck up.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;50468653]I'm not going to vote for a failed lawyer that is only famous because she fucked Bill. I'm also not going to vote for someone who is the epitome of corporate influence. I'm voting for someone who aligns with MY interest. That is not throwing my vote away, and you even saying that shows how absolutely fucked that mindset is. Even further, just because politicians who do not have my interests in mind endorse a shit person like Clinton does not in any way entice me to vote for her.[/QUOTE] OK but here's where i've been lost this entire election. Clinton is supposedly the epitome of corporate influence and big moneyed interest, but then the self-proclaimed billionaire and head of a conglomerate is somehow not seen as the exact same thing? Trump puts his tramp stamp on everything he sees, and he's not been shy about saying he will use the government to get everything [I]he[/I] wants, including forcing the FAA to divert planes around his mansion in palm springs, using eminent domain to push through development projects of his that have stalled, kill the EPA so that he doesn't have to deal with the massive fines his golf courses rack up, and kill the IRS who routinely audits him because he refuses to actually pay his taxes on time, slash government wind and solar subsidies because he thinks they're (and i quote) "ugly and disgusting!" hell this guy would nuke antarctica just so he could free up beach-side real estate

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;50468768]Great. I'd rather not have my ballot associated with any bad thing.[/QUOTE] that's fine. and I would rather use my ballot to do the most good. even if that amount of good is depressingly low.

[QUOTE=Naught;50468779]so you care enough about america and american politics to vote for and support bernie (who also talks about how people SHOULD vote for hillary instead of doing write in bullshit), but not enough to vote against trump, the person who is basically the polar opposite of bernie and everything he stands for, and will most likely win if many bernie supporters dont vote? thats pretty childish and pathetic, honestly.[/QUOTE] My vote is my opinion. My opinion is that I do not support either Trump or Clinton. So if I can't vote Bernie (barring write in, which I agree, is dumb), then I will take my vote to a third party. I have no obligation to give my vote to anyone because the person I supported said so. Nor do I have an obligation to "tactically" vote. My only prerogative is to vote for the candidate that I feel best supports me.

[QUOTE=Sableye;50468795]OK but here's where i've been lost this entire election. Clinton is supposedly the epitome of corporate influence and big moneyed interest, but then the self-proclaimed billionaire and head of a conglomerate is somehow not seen as the exact same thing? Trump puts his tramp stamp on everything he sees, and he's not been shy about saying he will use the government to get everything [I]he[/I] wants, including forcing the FAA to divert planes around his mansion in palm springs, using eminent domain to push through development projects of his that have stalled, kill the EPA so that he doesn't have to deal with the massive fines his golf courses rack up, and kill the IRS who routinely audits him because he refuses to actually pay his taxes on time[/QUOTE] The epitome of corporate influence line applies to either Clinton or Trump. I felt I didn't need to smack people over the head with that by putting it in parenthesis. [editline]6th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=danjee;50468802]that's fine. and I would rather use my ballot to do the most good. even if that amount of good is depressingly low.[/QUOTE] Agree to disagree, I suppose. Just saying, if we apply that logic to every election, we're going to get progressively worse and worse candidates.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;50468808]The epitome of corporate influence line applies to either Clinton or Trump. I felt I didn't need to smack people over the head with that by putting it in parenthesis.[/QUOTE] ya but Trump is demonstrably much worse than clinton when framed like that

[QUOTE=Sableye;50468814]ya but Trump is demonstrably much worse than clinton when framed like that[/QUOTE] No disagreements.

It doesn't really matter if people pick Clinton or Trump, because their presidency will be the shortest in history.

[QUOTE=Sableye;50468795]OK but here's where i've been lost this entire election. Clinton is supposedly the epitome of corporate influence and big moneyed interest, but then the self-proclaimed billionaire and head of a conglomerate is somehow not seen as the exact same thing? Trump puts his tramp stamp on everything he sees, and he's not been shy about saying he will use the government to get everything [I]he[/I] wants, including forcing the FAA to divert planes around his mansion in palm springs, using eminent domain to push through development projects of his that have stalled, kill the EPA so that he doesn't have to deal with the massive fines his golf courses rack up, and kill the IRS who routinely audits him because he refuses to actually pay his taxes on time, slash government wind and solar subsidies because he thinks they're (and i quote) "ugly and disgusting!" hell this guy would nuke antarctica just so he could free up beach-side real estate[/QUOTE] Not voting for Hillary Clinton isn't supporting Donald Trump. I'm sick of being told that I need to fall in line and vote for the lesser of two evils. I'm not in a swing state so I don't have to but I really sympathize for those that do. If Clinton doesn't win the general election then that's the DNC's fault, not Bernie supporters who decided they weren't going to play ball.

[QUOTE=Chaitin;50468824]It doesn't really matter if people pick Clinton or Trump, because their presidency will be the shortest in history.[/QUOTE] Said everyone after Obama won the election. Then won it again...

Voting for the lesser of two evils is part of the reason we're stuck at such a grotesque point. Are people going to say the same thing when the democratic nominee is worse than Trump? It's not far off from that, already, and will likely continue to decline in morality until people snap out of being bystanders and actually attempt change.

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;50468837]Not voting for Hillary Clinton isn't supporting Donald Trump. I'm sick of being told that I need to fall in line and vote for the lesser of two evils. I'm not in a swing state so I don't have to but I really sympathize for those that do. If Clinton doesn't win the general election then that's the DNC's fault, not Bernie supporters who decided they weren't going to play ball.[/QUOTE] actually when it comes to november 8th, it kind of is. as rush once put it, not choosing to make a choice is still making a choice. like it or not, we live in a two party government and not voting for one is implicit support for the other

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;50468808]The epitome of corporate influence line applies to either Clinton or Trump. I felt I didn't need to smack people over the head with that by putting it in parenthesis. [editline]6th June 2016[/editline] Agree to disagree, I suppose. Just saying, if we apply that logic to every election, we're going to get progressively worse and worse candidates.[/QUOTE] not necessarily, because my logic is what leads me to support bernie. it's probably the same logic that leads you to support bernie too. but if bernie doesn't pan out in a realistic way then that logic will lead me to hillary so I guess that's where we differ.

[QUOTE=Sableye;50468855]actually when it comes to november 8th, it kind of is. as rush once put it, not choosing to make a choice is still making a choice.[/QUOTE] I am making a choice and that choice is third-party.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;50468838]Said everyone after Obama won the election. Then won it again...[/QUOTE] People are still calling for his impeachment. Like shit, he wasnt impeached in the first 7.5 years, I doubt something so criminal will surface in the last 6 months. The dude doesnt give a shit anymore. Hes done his job. It will be amusing to him watching this election

[QUOTE=Sableye;50468855]actually when it comes to november 8th, it kind of is. as rush once put it, not choosing to make a choice is still making a choice. like it or not, we live in a two party government and not voting for one is implicit support for the other[/QUOTE] If I have three cups of water named Trump, Clinton, and Sanders, and I decide to pour water into Sanders, does that mean Trump has more water? Put yourself across parties into Trumps camp. Does this mean Clinton now has more water?

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;50468864]I am making a choice and that choice is third-party.[/QUOTE] its a winner take all system, voting 3rd party doesn't work, at best, you take away a vote from trump, but at worst, you've taken a vote away from not-trump

[QUOTE=Sableye;50468855]actually when it comes to november 8th, it kind of is. as rush once put it, not choosing to make a choice is still making a choice. like it or not, we live in a two party government and not voting for one is implicit support for the other[/QUOTE] I mean for Sanders supporters, it's essentially asking us to go head first or feet first into the volcano, or take option 3. Obviously, we are going to take option 3, knowing that it can't be worse than the other options.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;50468574]Get ready for a Trump presidency.[/QUOTE] I doubt that highly..

World War III has started over whether Clinton should be added to the infobox at the top of the Wikipedia page for the election

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;50468871]If I have three cups of water named Trump, Clinton, and Sanders, and I decide to pour water into Sanders, does that mean Trump has more water?[/QUOTE] stupid analogy when its a winner take all system. its more akin to taking your cup of water, and pouring it on the ground instead of giving it to either clinton or trump, you're letting other people decide the election then

[QUOTE=Sableye;50468872]its a winner take all system, voting 3rd party doesn't work, at best, you take away a vote from trump, but at worst, you've taken a vote away from not-trump[/QUOTE] My state is going Clinton no matter what so I'm holding on to my moral convictions and voting for who I think best represents me.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;50468838]Said everyone after Obama won the election. Then won it again...[/QUOTE] If you're talking about all the impeachment resolutions that have been drafted against Obama but ultimately failed... I would say both candidates have more chances to be kicked out than him.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;50468874]I mean for Sanders supporters, it's essentially asking us to go head first or feet first into the volcano, or take option 3. Obviously, we are going to take option 3, knowing that it can't be worse than the other options.[/QUOTE] not really, theres still congressional seats that are up for re-election, and those primaries are decided now. vote clinton to keep trump out, but vote the most progressive congressperson you can when it comes to the ballot. Changing the head of the DNC is very difficult, but we can change the membership and thats where we will ultimately win

Good Christ we've been through this a million times before. Vote for policies, not candidates. If you like Bernie's policies, or Jill Stein's, vote for them. Don't give me this "You must vote against Donald Trump" guilt-trip. If you don't agree with Trump OR Clinton, don't vote for either of them. And please stop using the condescending "idiot, you're throwing away your vote" line. By using that line, you're signalling that you have automatically accepted the shittiness that is the two-party system. Don't want shitty choices? Get out and fight to change the system.

[QUOTE=Sableye;50468872]its a winner take all system, voting 3rd party doesn't work, at best, you take away a vote from trump, but at worst, you've taken a vote away from not-trump[/QUOTE] yea but a or b are equally shit so in this case it's better to get a 3rd party in

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;50468886]My state is going Clinton no matter what so I'm holding on to my moral convictions and voting for who I think best represents me.[/QUOTE] i'm probably beating a dead horse then but by assuming clinton in such a tight race, you're leaving the door wide open for someone who wholly does not represent your interests to take the office, even clinton has her merits. i don't like her, but i'm not of the mind set that either candidate is a gun to the head like the extreme left and right have portrayed