Hillary Clinton is the presumptive Democratic nominee - Polidicks

[QUOTE=adadadsd;50469452]Greed has destroyed civilizations repeatedly throughout history and America is so, so clearly on that same trajectory it's pathetic. Once we're all just straight fucked I hope the DNC will look upon their greedy shortsightedness and feel regret, that's all I can really hope for anymore seeing as how Bernie is kind of fucked.[/QUOTE] Yeah, blame the DNC. Blame the DNC for millions of more Americans voting for Clinton rather than Sanders.

You know what? [i]Fuck[/i] this country. Nothing will ever improve in the US because people are ludicrously ignorant of who they vote for. If I study abroad in Europe, I'm not coming back. You reap what you sow.

I'm sicker of my fellow Democrats than I am of Trump supporters at this point. I'm tired of hearing that this election wasn't rigged. No, the vote count was accurate, and Hillary definitely won a plurality. A lot of people seem to think that this is the only thing that ever matters. So long as they get the candidate they wanted, or one they're confident can win, they don't mind: - that the party leader was an avid supporter of one of the candidates in 2008, and has repeatedly made party decisions which favored the same candidate in the current primary - that the party elites ensured that hundreds of superdelegates would publically announce support for their chosen candidate before the primary could get underway, giving Hillary a 500 delegate "lead" for the media to report on before most of the nation could even vote - that the rules for fundraising were changed to become more corrupt because a grassroots campaign actually challenged big money this time around - that the party was so committed to Clinton that no effective challengers came from within the party, and an independent from Vermont that most people had never heard of had to be the one to stand up to her (and speaking of which...) - that the party attempted to limit the entire debate schedule to four appearances, limiting opportunities for Hillary to be seriously questioned on national television until after her nomination (not that the fake challengers from within the party would ever seriously attack her) - and that public record shows fundraising connections between the media and Hillary's political campaigns, which are unsurprising considered repeated bias in reporting on the election None of this particularly weighs on the efficacy of a prospective Clinton presidency. It does show the total corruption of the Democratic Party, however. You can call the Republican Party a joke for selecting Trump if you want, but I'm genuinely jealous of the fact that their voters actually had real choice this time, and not just a cynical illusion of choice.

[QUOTE=sb27;50469466]Yeah, blame the DNC. Blame the DNC for millions of more Americans voting for Clinton rather than Sanders.[/QUOTE] They control so much, yes people are stupid for not looking deeper into things but the DNC knew that and preyed on it by spinning media at all junctures towards her (not to mention the times when they actually spun the literal ELECTIONS in her favor.) It's gotten to the point where they're engaging in criminal election practices in order to grant themselves a criminal president who is bound to continue to harm the greater collective of the earth as we know it rather than try and actually help anything. For money's sake.

[QUOTE=sb27;50469466]millions of more Americans[/QUOTE] I'd like to point out that this is technically true but not in a relevant way. Yes, Clinton has one more primary votes than Sanders, but this number (typically cited as being 3 million by the Clinton campaign) neglects to factor in caucus results, where individual votes aren't counted. I'd be interested to see what the actual number is once caucus percentages are accounted for. That being said, you're absolutely right that despite its attempts to rig the race, the DNC can't really be blamed for the fact that most Democratic voters simply don't see through Clinton's facade. Honestly, it got to the point that my girlfriend and I made a game out of predicting Clinton's moves during debates because she was so flat and predictable.

Forget the DNC. They set the stage, but the people here watched the show. I've been cynical about politics since I was in middle school. This whole election with Bernie getting his message out started to bring just a little bit of hope in me for the future and it's gone now, never to return. Fuck optimists and fuck positive thinking. Always bet your money on the worst outcome and you'll never be wrong, because the only constant in the universe is humans screwing themselves over and over and over. Climate Change will put our pitiful situation out of its misery. The Masses really are the asses

[QUOTE=adamsz;50469515]Forget the DNC. They set the stage, but the people here watched the show. I've been cynical about politics since I was in middle school. This whole election with Bernie getting his message out started to bring just a little bit of hope in me for the future and it's gone now, never to return. Fuck optimists and fuck positive thinking. Always bet your money on the worst outcome and you'll never be wrong, because the only constant in the universe is humans screwing themselves over and over and over. Climate Change will put our pitiful situation out of its misery. The Masses really are the asses[/QUOTE] This doesn't make any sense either.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50469515]Forget the DNC. They set the stage, but the people here watched the show. I've been cynical about politics since I was in middle school. This whole election with Bernie getting his message out started to bring just a little bit of hope in me for the future and it's gone now, never to return. Fuck optimists and fuck positive thinking. Always bet your money on the worst outcome and you'll never be wrong. The Masses really are the asses[/QUOTE] You know, you're not helping anything either. So your favored candidate didn't win, and it was only the first time you'd ever really been invested. That's all it took for you to jump ship? Nothing worth doing was ever easily achieved in this country. If your response to one particularly bad beat is to throw your arms up and say "fuck America, I'm gonna be edgy from now on," then maybe you were never part of the solution anyway.

[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;50469538]You know, you're not helping anything either. So your favored candidate didn't win, and it was only the first time you'd ever really been invested. That's all it took for you to jump ship? Nothing worth doing was ever easily achieved in this country. If your response to one particularly bad beat is to throw your arms up and say "fuck America, I'm gonna be edgy from now on," then maybe you were never part of the solution anyway.[/QUOTE] A bad beat? Is that all this is? If you think this is just another presidential election, you're in for a rude awakening. The elites have seen that people aren't satisfied with the establishment, which means they'll do everything in their power to prevent another honest candidate like Sanders from existing next time around. We had one shot and we shot ourselves. Our only remaining solution is revolution. If we cannot reform our government before it's gone, then you either live with it, or fight it. Trust me, nobody has the balls to actually fight this with force. Not even "edgy me".

[QUOTE=adamsz;50469572]A bad beat? Is that all this is? If you think this is just another presidential election, you're in for a rude awakening. The elites have seen that people aren't satisfied with the establishment, which means they'll do everything in their power to prevent another honest candidate like Sanders from existing next time around. We had one shot and we shot ourselves.[/QUOTE] No presidential election is "just another" presidential election. Every single one has its make-or-break issues, and by understating the importance of the last few elections in comparison to this one you're continuing to display your inexperience. Do you realize how many times black people had their hopes and dreams shut down in this country before they even got to Brown v. Board? They're still fighting for rights fifty years later. How many times gays and lesbians have had to watch their desires go up in smoke because the American public wasn't ready yet? And moreover, the system wasn't going to change overnight just because Sanders won. It would have taken repeated victories and large-scale reorganization of the media and political landscape before anti-establishment politics could ever become establishment. We lost this time. It happens, and people get hurt when it does. But I'll be damned if I just sit here and cry about it rather than getting involved for the next time around. I'll phonebank again next election, and the one after it, and get out there door to door again and again, however long it takes until people start getting the message. Sanders reached an entire generation this election that's fired up and pissed off over what happened, and sooner or later those chickens are going to come home to roost. I'm not even going to address your "revolution" comment. You sound like a teenager when you say that, and it wouldn't surprise me. Anyone who sums up their life experiences as "since middle school" obviously hasn't been out in the real world for very long.

[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;50469636]Do you realize how many times black people had their hopes and dreams shut down in this country before they even got to Brown v. Board? They're still fighting for rights fifty years later. How many times gays and lesbians have had to watch their desires go up in smoke because the American public wasn't ready yet? We lost this time.I'll phonebank again next election, and the one after it, and get out there door to door again and again, however long it takes until people start getting the message.[/QUOTE] But if progressive candidates are prevented from running after the success Sanders has had because of hard-lining by the parties, who would you be phone banking for? My concern is that it won't matter how much time people spend volunteering for honest candidates because it won't change anything. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sega Saturn;50469636] Anyone who sums up their life experiences as "since middle school" obviously hasn't been out in the real world for very long.[/QUOTE] I suppose you weren't 8 years younger the last time an incumbent-less election was held then? And of course I haven't been in the real world very long. I've been in college for two years and 12 years of school before that.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50469660]But if progressive candidates are prevented from running after the success Sanders has had because of hard-lining by the parties, who would you be phone banking for? My concern is that it won't matter how much time people spend volunteering for honest candidates because it won't change anything.[/QUOTE] The problem with Sanders was never that he was too progressive or too honest. The party's corruption was centered on Clinton because of her massive influence and insider status. She appeared to be the best bet long before the primaries began and so the party committed everything it had to ensure that she would make it to the main event in November. Sanders' challenge threw a wrench into gears that were already turning, and while that turns stomachs, it doesn't mean that the party was specifically trying to destroy an honest progressive's push for the White House. Next time around, it's more reasonable to expect the party to harness that progressive energy rather than suppress it, because the chief priority of the DNC is to win elections. It's our job to fight for reforms within the DNC so that the race can become more fair and competitive. We still might end up with Clinton-like characters in the future due to the ignorance of the American voter, but it's also our job to promote candidates who actually give a damn. Politics is a process, you can't just check in and out if you want to actually influence anything.

[QUOTE=Katska;50469134]If you really don't care, then just don't vote. Why go out of your way to vote just for shits and giggles?[/QUOTE] I don't like wasting my vote.

[QUOTE=adamsz;50469660]I suppose you weren't 8 years younger the last time an incumbent-less election was held then? And of course I haven't been in the real world very long. I've been in college for two years and 12 years of school before that.[/QUOTE] You do realize that "I've been in college for two years" is a nicer way of saying "this is basically the first presidential election I've had the opportunity to participate in", correct? I mean, this is my second, and I would hardly have the gall to posit that this is somehow "not just another presidential election". What do you think it is? News flash, it is, in fact, a presidential election. Bernie got so far mainly because he tried to break through into the democratic party. There's always been an underdog independent "in" the race, and their supporters have always said the exact same thing - how the "elites" are controlling everything and keeping progressive candidates away from the nomination, and how it will never change (despite it somehow being "not just another presidential election").

[QUOTE=adamsz;50469515]Forget the DNC. They set the stage, but the people here watched the show. I've been cynical about politics since I was in middle school. This whole election with Bernie getting his message out started to bring just a little bit of hope in me for the future and it's gone now, never to return. Fuck optimists and fuck positive thinking. Always bet your money on the worst outcome and you'll never be wrong, because the only constant in the universe is humans screwing themselves over and over and over. Climate Change will put our pitiful situation out of its misery. The Masses really are the asses[/QUOTE] Some of that hope might return with Elizabeth Warren and the younger peeps share Sanders views so give it 10 years.

Well, have fun getting bent over by your corporate overlords, America. Rigged or not, media bias or not, the two candidates who will have the least remorse fucking you over are your choices. And whichever you go for, you lose for the next four years at the very least.

still voting Bernie tomorrow

[QUOTE=notlabbet;50469984]still voting Bernie tomorrow[/QUOTE] You better. I'll come find you and slap you with my ballot if you don't.

[QUOTE=notlabbet;50469984]still voting Bernie tomorrow[/QUOTE] Be sure to drag along 5 of your friends if you can.

If anything, this news is going to make Hillary supporters NOT bother to go vote for her; she's already won. Go give her hell, all of you.

It seems like Bernie is simply too good for the USA. So yeah, [i]good luck with this nonsense.[/i]

[QUOTE=notlabbet;50469984]still voting Bernie tomorrow[/QUOTE] No reason not to vote Bernie or whoever you want in a primary. It's a primary. One should always vote for their most preferred candidate in a primary. The idea of "throwing away votes" doesn't really count in a primary as opposed to the general.

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkVPhH1WgAANdOl.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50470549][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkVPhH1WgAANdOl.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Missing "No voter suppression" and "No media bias"

[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;50469483]I'm sicker of my fellow Democrats than I am of Trump supporters at this point. I'm tired of hearing that this election wasn't rigged. No, the vote count was accurate, and Hillary definitely won a plurality. A lot of people seem to think that this is the only thing that ever matters. So long as they get the candidate they wanted, or one they're confident can win, they don't mind: - that the party leader was an avid supporter of one of the candidates in 2008, and has repeatedly made party decisions which favored the same candidate in the current primary - that the party elites ensured that hundreds of superdelegates would publically announce support for their chosen candidate before the primary could get underway, giving Hillary a 500 delegate "lead" for the media to report on before most of the nation could even vote - that the rules for fundraising were changed to become more corrupt because a grassroots campaign actually challenged big money this time around - that the party was so committed to Clinton that no effective challengers came from within the party, and an independent from Vermont that most people had never heard of had to be the one to stand up to her (and speaking of which...) - that the party attempted to limit the entire debate schedule to four appearances, limiting opportunities for Hillary to be seriously questioned on national television until after her nomination (not that the fake challengers from within the party would ever seriously attack her) - and that public record shows fundraising connections between the media and Hillary's political campaigns, which are unsurprising considered repeated bias in reporting on the election None of this particularly weighs on the efficacy of a prospective Clinton presidency. It does show the total corruption of the Democratic Party, however. You can call the Republican Party a joke for selecting Trump if you want, but I'm genuinely jealous of the fact that their voters actually had real choice this time, and not just a cynical illusion of choice.[/QUOTE] I'm getting real sick of this "boo hoo poor Bernie was just a victim of the corrupt DNC ;(" bullshit from Sanders supporters, as if Uncle Bernie was just a puppet abused by fate. Face it; he lost fair and square. Voters, particuarly minorites, along with those that know the working of the Democrat part well, rejected him in favor in Clinton. He had plenty of opportunities to convince Democrat voters and the DNC that he was the best candidate, but it turns out both groups did not buy what he was selling. That happens in politics, get over it, and start working on a way to fix it in the future (as in, look at your message and how you present yourself, not going on wild goose hunts for unspecified corruption) It's the same spineless whining that makes up the loser left; it's never our fault that we lost, it's someone elses! We're just victims! Look at your whiny, passive-aggressive, and entitled attitude and you'll see why people aren't sucking off progressive causes like you want, not the MILLIONARES AND BILLIONAIRES scheming to thwart the plans of college students, ivory tower-dwellers, and old revolutionaries that want that one last battle with the man.

It is a rigged system. Now Donald Trump is your only hope.

[QUOTE=orgornot;50470732]It is a rigged system. Now Donald Trump is your only hope.[/QUOTE] No. Even if you actually believe it is a 'rigged system', Donald Trump is not the answer.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50470791]No. Even if you actually believe it is a 'rigged system', Donald Trump is not the answer.[/QUOTE] Yes he is. Crooked Hillary will only serve her donors. Trump represents the people.

[QUOTE=orgornot;50470809]Yes he is. Crooked Hillary will only serve her donors. Trump represents the people.[/QUOTE] Well, I don't know why you would believe that Trump would serve the people. That aside, if you want to complain about money in US politics, direct your ire towards lobbying NOT campaign donations. [url]https://laeffyblog.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/the-longest-post-ever-on-piketty/[/url] [QUOTE][B]Campaign Donations[/B] This ties in closely with the above, and will be much shorter. Firstly, money is useless if it cannot deliver a victory. If people don’t like an idea, then people won’t vote for you. Secondly, money in a campaign has limited effectiveness. Once you have achieved name recognition, there is very little evidence that political ads have any effect upon voting. Thirdly, campaign donations have very limited effects on politicians. Politicians voting records are almost entirely based upon their own beliefs and their party. This study is from 2002 by Ansolabehere et al: 'An additional $60,000 in corporate PAC contributions (approximately one standard deviation) changes the voting score by at most 2 points; an additional $50,000 in labor PAC contributions changes the voting score by 6 point. By comparison, changing the party of a district’s representative changes the voting score by more than 30 points… Controlling for voters’ preferences using district fixed effects almost completely eliminates the effects of contributions on legislative voting, in both the OLS and IV estimates… Using legislator fixed effects eliminates the effects of contributions entirely, in both the OLS and IV. The estimated coefficients are tiny and statistically insignificant. Evidently, changes in donations to an individual legislator do not translate into changes in that legislator’s roll call voting behavior.' Essentially, there is almost no effect of campaign donations upon voting behaviour. Additionally, a large proportion of that money comes from politically interested individuals who want to promote a political cause they support. How was it self-interested for Murdo Fraser to try and fund a campaign against repealing laws against homosexuality in Scotland? How is George Soros really acting in his own interest? Many wealthy individuals support the Republicans – but are they doing this because they are self-interested or because they believe disproportionately in the beliefs of the Republican Party as a result of their background? I believe that campaign donations (unlike lobbying) have no effect on politics, or close to no effect. I think one effect they do have is that certain wealthy individuals are able to gain access to politicians reliably in a way in which the average person does not. However, these people are usually gaining this access not for corrupt reasons, but because they are politically interested and want to donate to the cause. General campaign donations aren’t the same as lobbying groups, which lobby directly on behalf of causes. Instead they are from enthusiastic parties who want to push their politics, though mostly ineffectively given that there is no proof that political ads are effective.[/QUOTE] Clinton doesn't serve her donors, and US politicians in general do not serve their donors. The effect of campaign donations on voting records are almost nothing.

Bernie's still got this guys! Have you seen his momentum??