Airbnb faces outcry after transgender guest was denied stay by a host - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474711]If you can't see why she'd be concerned about how a trans person would make her child uncomfortable I don't think anything I can say will help.[/quote] No please, by all means, try your best because I'm confused too and I'd appreciate it if you'd elaborate. Not trying to be snarky, I genuinely want you to elaborate.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;50474372]This controversy is dumb, She's not running a professional hotel service, she's making extra money by letting people stay in her own home through Airbnb, she should have the right to deny anyone the room for any reason she feels like. This is not comparable to being denied a stay at a hotel, this is a room in her own house that's in question.[/QUOTE] Airbnb has a right to control who is offering their services. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474711]If you can't see why she'd be concerned about how a trans person would make her child uncomfortable I don't think anything I can say will help. That said, the decision to cut her from hosting, while I disagree with it, is entirely understandable by a company that's facing some hard hitting about being racist or transphobic.[/QUOTE] And what about gay people making her child uncomfortable, or blacks or Hispanics... It's more often than not the parent who's uncomfortable explaining these things (because they frankly don't understand) then it is the kid

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50474379]Just because you're not ashamed of it does not mean you should flaunt it. That applies to your sexuality, your gender and all other shit. Unless asked, no reason to tell everyone. You're a vegan? Good for you, why tell me though?[/QUOTE] Maybe it was brought up in conversation

[QUOTE=srobins;50474773]Honestly I'm having trouble understanding what James' point was.. I understand Airbnb as a company cannot discriminate, but they don't, and they cancelled her contract, soo.. What's the issue?[/QUOTE] People were implying that the problem is the breaking of some silly terms of service (see quote from my previous post) yet there is a law that says you can't discriminate who you give housing to. In any case, its a binding contract she broke, not just some invitation to treat.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474711]If you can't see why she'd be concerned about how a trans person would make her child uncomfortable I don't think anything I can say will help. That said, the decision to cut her from hosting, while I disagree with it, is entirely understandable by a company that's facing some hard hitting about being racist or transphobic.[/QUOTE] If my children are uncomfortable around black people, would it be right for me to not allow black tenants?

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474403][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkOZDJNUYAQ_7vI.jpg[/IMG] Not exactly being a dick or anything.[/QUOTE] wtf does this woman think her 13 year is going to do, masturbate to her?

[QUOTE=NikoChekhov;50474807]No please, by all means, try your best because I'm confused too and I'd appreciate it if you'd elaborate. Not trying to be snarky, I genuinely want you to elaborate.[/QUOTE] It can be confusing to children when someone who looks like a particular sex identifies as a different sex.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474905]It can be confusing to children when someone who looks like a particular sex identifies as a different sex.[/QUOTE] It seems like it would take some very minimal effort to explain this to a teenager. He's 13, not 6.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474905]It can be confusing to children when someone who looks like a particular sex identifies as a different sex.[/QUOTE] we're talking about 13 year olds here, not 4 year olds.

[QUOTE=Sableye;50474862]Airbnb has a right to control who is offering their services. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] And what about gay people making her child uncomfortable, or blacks or Hispanics... It's more often than not the parent who's uncomfortable explaining these things (because they frankly don't understand) then it is the kid[/QUOTE] Once again can't compare race with sexuality. It is like explaining homosexuality. Thankfully we've gotten pretty far with parents explaining homosexuality without being pieces of shit. We're still in the early stages of explaining trans people. You're right. Parents don't understand those things and it makes them uncomfortable. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=phygon;50474901]If my children are uncomfortable around black people, would it be right for me to not allow black tenants?[/QUOTE] Yes. Can't work for Airbnb though.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474905]It can be confusing to children when someone who looks like a particular sex identifies as a different sex.[/QUOTE] Why would you have to explain that though, why can't you just say "Hey buddy come meet the tenant this is Mrs. xyz"? She specifically says he doesn't want the 13 year old son to "feel discomforts in his own home". How is a transgender person going to cause him discomfort, atleast more so than a cisgender person?

[QUOTE=Pascall;50474912]It seems like it would take some very minimal effort to explain this to a teenager. He's 13, not 6.[/QUOTE] Fair enough. The 13 year old is likely way more educated than the mother thinks. That said, the parent has the right to influence who is around her child and who is not.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474917]Yes. Can't work for Airbnb though.[/QUOTE] You're effectively sheltering your children though. If you hide anything that makes your child uncomfortable from him, then you're going to have a sheltered child.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474905]It can be confusing to children when someone who looks like a particular sex identifies as a different sex.[/QUOTE] How do you know this trans person was pre or post op? I'm fairly certain I've seen some women who look just like a guy. Are girls with pixie cuts and small breasts also banned?

I can understand why the woman would feel uncomfortable with a transgendered person living in their home. I personally wouldn't feel uncomfortable myself, but unfortunately most of America is not used to transgender people, and it will take some time before America adjusts to a group of people who they don't understand, relate or talk to even sparingly. Before anyone flips their shit, I'm not suggesting I agree with her decision, I'm saying I can understand what was going through her mind when she made it and ideally she wouldn't have made that decision if she was more informed about and exposed to transgendered people. I think everything here played out as it should have. Lady doesn't want trans person living in house, by doing that she's breaking Airbnb terms of service, so she no longer is part of the service and can't rent her house out through Airbnb. If she wanted to be part of the Airbnb service she should have realized when she signed up that she doesn't get to pick and choose who can come live in her house based on things the person can't control like race, gender, sex, etc. and instead should have done Craigslist or something.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50474929] She specifically says he doesn't want the 13 year old son to "feel discomforts in his own home". How is a transgender person going to cause him discomfort, atleast more so than a cisgender person?[/QUOTE] Again, if you don't understand why it would make someone uncomfortable, I can't help you understand it. A person who identifies as a different gender than the sex they are being in your home may make you feel more uncomfortable than having a cisgender person in your home. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50474943]You're effectively sheltering your children though. If you hide anything that makes your child uncomfortable from him, then you're going to have a sheltered child.[/QUOTE] Agreed. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ForgottenKane;50474945]How do you know this trans person was pre or post op? I'm fairly certain I've seen some women who look just like a guy. Are girls with pixie cuts and small breasts also banned?[/QUOTE] I'm arguing that there are often times when there is a noticeable difference between what someone identifies as and how they are perceived. If the mother felt uncomfortable with the current state of the person, however they may be, I have no issue with her refusing them service. (Again, she can't do this and stay under contract with Airbnb.)

I'm kinda glad this happened. I'd hate for someone to lodge there only to find out you're actually unwelcome.

[QUOTE=SleepyAl;50474950]I can understand why the woman would feel uncomfortable with a transgendered person living in their home. I personally wouldn't feel uncomfortable myself, but unfortunately most of America is not used to transgender people, and it will take some time before America adjusts to a group of people who they don't understand, relate or talk to even sparingly. Before anyone flips their shit, I'm not suggesting I agree with her decision, I'm saying I can understand what was going through her mind when she made it and ideally she wouldn't have made that decision if she was more informed about and exposed to transgendered people. I think everything here played out as it should have. Lady doesn't want trans person living in house, by doing that she's breaking Airbnb terms of service, so she no longer is part of the service and can't rent her house out through Airbnb. If she wanted to be part of the Airbnb service she should have realized when she signed up that she doesn't get to pick and choose who can come live in her house based on things the person can't control like race, gender, sex, etc. and instead should have done Craigslist or something.[/QUOTE] This sums up my thoughts nearly perfectly.

She shouldn't have been providing hosting services if she was prepared to turn people down based on uncontrollable situations. Also all these people going "Yeah I understand why the very presence of a trans person would make them uncomfortable it's okay" seriously concern me. it's a stones throw away from "its okay to find black people uncomfortable" (yes you can't compare trans issues with race but they're still two things you're born with that you can't help)

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474905]It can be confusing to children when someone who looks like a particular sex identifies as a different sex.[/QUOTE] And how is that negative in any capacity?

[QUOTE=Noss;50474995]And how is that negative in any capacity?[/QUOTE] Everyone knows confusion is the #1 thing to avoid in regards to kids. You can NOT have them confused. Because confusion is one step away from curiosity which is one step away from learning and becoming a better person. and you can't have that.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474933]Fair enough. The 13 year old is likely way more educated than the mother thinks. That said, the parent has the right to influence who is around her child and who is not.[/QUOTE] So you've agreed that she shouldn't be contracting under Airbnb, and I don't think anyone has outright said that she should be forced to expose herself and her child to transgendered individuals, so what is the argument even about? [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474951]Again, if you don't understand why it would make someone uncomfortable, I can't help you understand it. A person who identifies as a different gender than the sex they are being in your home may make you feel more uncomfortable than having a cisgender person in your home.[/QUOTE] Well no it's more that you did give a reason and I pointed out how it's bupkis and now you are essentially saying "it just is okay jeez".

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474951]Again, if you don't understand why it would make someone uncomfortable, I can't help you understand it. A person who identifies as a different gender than the sex they are being in your home may make you feel more uncomfortable than having a cisgender person in your home. I'm arguing that there are often times when there is a noticeable difference between what someone identifies as and how they are perceived. If the mother felt uncomfortable with the current state of the person, however they may be, I have no issue with her refusing them service. (Again, she can't do this and stay under contract with Airbnb.)[/QUOTE] That's a terrible position to take. I'm all for this ladies' right to be a bigot but the only reason someone should be uncomfortable is because they're uneducated on the topic not because trans people can be uncomfortable to be around. Also I'd hope that your opinion on trans folks doesn't hinge on how well they blend in. There are a lot of ugly people out there who don't face the same criticism trans people do even though they may not be feminine or masculine enough for your standards.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50475018]So you've agreed that she shouldn't be contracting under Airbnb, and I don't think anyone has outright said that she should be forced to expose herself and her child to transgendered individuals, so what is the argument even about? Well no it's more that you did give a reason and I pointed out how it's bupkis and now you are essentially saying "it just is okay jeez".[/QUOTE] For an educated person it's a shit reason sure. For an uneducated person who wants to protect their child from feeling uncomfortable it's pretty reasonable. Not everyone feels comfortable with trans people. You can't seem to grasp that. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=reedbo;50475019]That's a terrible position to take. I'm all for this ladies' right to be a bigot but the only reason someone should be uncomfortable is because they're uneducated on the topic not because trans people can be uncomfortable to be around. Also I'd hope that your opinion on trans folks doesn't hinge on how well they blend in. There are a lot of ugly people out there who don't face the same criticism trans people do even though they may not be feminine or masculine enough for your standards.[/QUOTE] They can be. People who are different from yourself can naturally be uncomfortable to be around. It's not so much even an issue of education (though I do believe more people should work towards becoming educated about the issues transgenders face) so much as an issue of someone who is different from you in your home making you feel awkward and uncomfortable. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;50475010]Everyone knows confusion is the #1 thing to avoid in regards to kids. You can NOT have them confused. Because confusion is one step away from curiosity which is one step away from learning and becoming a better person. and you can't have that.[/QUOTE] Moreso uncomfortable than confused, to correct myself. I'm not at all pushing for people to be uneducated and learning. Extreme attempt to push my argument in a way it wasn't going. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Noss;50474995]And how is that negative in any capacity?[/QUOTE] It can make them uncomfortable.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50475080]For an educated person it's a shit reason sure. For an uneducated person who wants to protect their child from feeling uncomfortable it's pretty reasonable. Not everyone feels comfortable with trans people. You can't seem to grasp that. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] They can be. People who are different from yourself can naturally be uncomfortable to be around. It's not so much even an issue of education (though I do believe more people should work towards becoming educated about the issues transgenders face) so much as an issue of someone who is different from you in your home making you feel awkward and uncomfortable. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] Moreso uncomfortable than confused, to correct myself. I'm not at all pushing for people to be uneducated and learning. Extreme attempt to push my argument in a way it wasn't going. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] It can make them uncomfortable.[/QUOTE] I'm still not entirely sure on your reasoning for the view that being uncomfortable is a bad thing? We don't have a human right to be 'comfortable', and the only way that we can make any progress is by making people 'uncomfortable'. It is only the fear of the unknown that makes people feel this way, so why continue to perpetuate that fear? EDIT: Also, let's say that instead of a transgender person, that the customer was born with one arm. The child may not have experienced seeing somebody like this before, and would be uncomfortable as a result. Would you still think that it is acceptable to deny service to this customer?

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50475080]For an educated person it's a shit reason sure. For an uneducated person who wants to protect their child from feeling uncomfortable it's pretty reasonable. Not everyone feels comfortable with trans people. You can't seem to grasp that. [/QUOTE] You appear to misunderstand so lets cut to the chase: I absolutely "grasp" what you are beating around the bush to say, I was just hoping you'd have the courtesy of simply saying it; that people who are uncomfortable around transgender people have no logical reasons to give when asked why they would be uncomfortable. It's simple, basic, human prejudice. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] You're employing circular logic to answer what should be a really straightforward question. Transgender people make me feel uncomfortable Why do they make you feel uncomfortable? They just do And you say others can't grasp on to your logic when nothing exists to grasp on to because you have transmitted new information. All I know is that they make you feel uncomfortable.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50475142]You appear to misunderstand so lets cut to the chase: I absolutely "grasp" what you are beating around the bush to say, I was just hoping you'd have the courtesy of simply saying it; that people who are uncomfortable around transgender people have no logical reasons to give when asked why they would be uncomfortable. It's simple, basic, human prejudice. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] You're employing circular logic to answer what should be a really straightforward question. Transgender people make me feel uncomfortable Why do they make you feel uncomfortable? They just do And you say others can't grasp on to your logic when nothing exists to grasp on to because you have transmitted new information. All I know is that they make you feel uncomfortable.[/QUOTE] FYI they don't make me feel uncomfortable. Frankly I don't give a fuck what they do with themselves. I'm simply saying that they do make some people uncomfortable. And yes, it is prejudice. You're exactly right. When someone is not like you, you may want to distance yourself from them.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474917] Yes. Can't work for Airbnb though.[/QUOTE] No, that would be illegal as fuck, what are you talking about? Do you actually support segregation? Because based off your response, that's what it sounds like. I'm not even reaching here, but it sounds like you're okay with segregation hapepning.

[QUOTE=Noss;50475110]I'm still not entirely sure on your reasoning for the view that being uncomfortable is a bad thing? We don't have a human right to be 'comfortable', and the only way that we can make any progress is by making people 'uncomfortable'. It is only the fear of the unknown that makes people feel this way, so why continue to perpetuate that fear? EDIT: Also, let's say that instead of a transgender person, that the customer was born with one arm. The child may not have experienced seeing somebody like this before, and would be uncomfortable as a result. Would you still think that it is acceptable to deny service to this customer?[/QUOTE] Absolutely. People have the right to refuse service no matter what the issue they have with someone is. They'll face the repercussions through bad reviews and less customers.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50475164]FYI they don't make me feel uncomfortable. Frankly I don't give a fuck what they do with themselves. I'm simply saying that they do make some people uncomfortable. [/QUOTE] "You" being in general, I wasn't specifically saying yourself. I should have specified, my bad. [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50475164]And yes, it is prejudice. You're exactly right. When someone is not like you, you may want to distance yourself from them.[/QUOTE] That sounds like awful advice to give anyone, let alone a young person.