Airbnb faces outcry after transgender guest was denied stay by a host - Polidicks

[QUOTE=phygon;50475170]No, that would be illegal as fuck, what are you talking about? Do you actually support segregation? Because based off your response, that's what it sounds like. I'm not even reaching here, but it sounds like you're okay with segregation hapepning.[/QUOTE] Your idea of segregation is deeply offensive towards people who have dealt with real segregation. Being denied service somewhere isn't segregation. Being denied business everywhere is segregation. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;50475183]"You" being in general, I wasn't specifically saying yourself. I should have specified, my bad. That sounds like awful advice to give anyone, let alone a young person.[/QUOTE] Let me clarify, I'm not supporting distancing yourself from them. English language being silly with the "may". I mean in certain circumstances when someone is not like you, it might feel more comfortable for you not being around them. Is that necessarily the best option? Not always. But it's what might be most comfortable to someone.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426]Absolutely. People have the right to refuse service no matter what the issue they have with someone is. They'll face the repercussions through bad reviews and less customers. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50475189]Your idea of segregation is deeply offensive towards people who have dealt with real segregation. Being denied service somewhere isn't segregation. Being denied business everywhere is segregation.[/QUOTE] But in your ideal world where businesses can discriminate on the basis of gender (I assume this also extends to race and sexuality), what happens if all businesses decide not to serve a minority group? Wouldn't this become a segregated society?

[QUOTE=Noss;50475204]But in your ideal world where businesses can discriminate on the basis of gender (I assume this also extends to race and sexuality), what happens if all businesses decide not to serve a minority group? Wouldn't this become a segregated society?[/QUOTE] What makes you believe all businesses would do this?

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50475243]What makes you believe all businesses would do this?[/QUOTE] If you check the steps to genocide list, your post falls somewhere just before step 4. I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand but neither did your post.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50475168]If you can't compare them, then stop comparing them Trans people are not an ethnic minority[/QUOTE] I'm sorry I can't help but see similarities in two aspects of human beings that are routinely discriminated against. A big difference is "black people make me uncomfortable" is something you'd never get away with saying now but "trans people make me uncomfortable" is for some reason a-okay

[QUOTE=James xX;50474892]People were implying that the problem is the breaking of some silly terms of service (see quote from my previous post) yet there is a law that says you can't discriminate who you give housing to. In any case, its a binding contract she broke, not just some invitation to treat.[/QUOTE] Right, but the woman isn't breaking the law.. So I still don't get your point.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50475189]Your idea of segregation is deeply offensive towards people who have dealt with real segregation. Being denied service somewhere isn't segregation. Being denied business everywhere is segregation. [/QUOTE] No, being denied business at businesses who don't allow a group is segregation. I asked you if denying service to black tenants would be alright, you said yes. That's what segregation is. Additionally, you seem to be completely fine with people discriminating on the basis of gender, which again would be segregation.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;50474372]This controversy is dumb, She's not running a professional hotel service, she's making extra money by letting people stay in her own home through Airbnb, she should have the right to deny anyone the room for any reason she feels like. This is not comparable to being denied a stay at a hotel, this is a room in her own house that's in question.[/QUOTE] Plenty of places are now running exclusively through Airbnb and related services as a business with no intention of living in them themselves. Same thing with uber drivers buying cars just for uber. It is absolutely comparable to staying in a hotel.

Okay, but is that actually relevant to this case? Because from what I've seen it suggested that she'd be living in/sharing their own personal space with them. From what I can tell everything that happened went according to the law and how it should go. The woman didn't feel comfortable with the transperson living in the same space as her son, so she had her contract terminated when it became public knowledge. I don't think I'm missing anything and I don't see anything wrong with this scenario? I think the controversy it's caused is dumb, not the situation itself.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;50475350]Okay, but is that actually relevant to this case? Because from what I've seen it suggested that she'd be living in/sharing their own personal space with them. From what I can tell everything that happened went according to the law and how it should go. The woman didn't feel comfortable with the transperson living in the same space as her son, so she had her contract terminated when it became public knowledge. I don't think I'm missing anything and I don't see anything wrong with this scenario? I think the controversy it's caused is dumb, not the situation itself.[/QUOTE] What controversy?

[QUOTE=soulharvester;50475350]Okay, but is that actually relevant to this case? Because from what I've seen it suggested that she'd be living in/sharing their own personal space with them.[/QUOTE] Doesn't really change much. It frees up some non protected class stuff, but that's about it. At least in most areas that I'm aware of.

So let me get this straight... In an effort for full disclosure, they stated they were trans. Then, with the knowledge given to them, the host decided to not host them... based on information disclosed in advance. Now, why would anyone disclose anything ahead of time? Perhaps, you'd think, the information disclosed would potentially affect your stay? Like it did here...? I'm sorry, but this outcome is not at all extraordinary. The host was polite and honest, and really, her reasoning is not horrible. This controversy is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474403][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkOZDJNUYAQ_7vI.jpg[/IMG] Not exactly being a dick or anything.[/QUOTE] I can say "I'm terribly sorry, but I have a 2 year old niece, and I don't want her feeling uncomfortable because of any black people around. Thank you for your inquiry, though!" I'm being polite, but I'm still being racist and ridiculous. If her 13 year old son is going to have discomfort because of a transgender person, then that's her fault for the way she raised him. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474792]I get the point you're trying to make, but race or heritage is largely different from gender. Note once again that I'm not disputing the company's right to make the decision they did.[/QUOTE] That's a terrible excuse to try to specify. It's discrimination based on demographic, plain and simple. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474917]Yes. Can't work for Airbnb though.[/QUOTE] lmfao okay now you're saying that it's okay to be racist It'll be [I]legal,[/I] but that sure as hell doesn't make it right. I mean at best this is just shoddy wording, but the wording of your response says it's right to "reject someone if they're black."

[QUOTE=Protocol7;50475503]So let me get this straight... In an effort for full disclosure, they stated they were trans. Then, with the knowledge given to them, the host decided to not host them... based on information disclosed in advance. Now, why would anyone disclose anything ahead of time? Perhaps, you'd think, the information disclosed would potentially affect your stay? Like it did here...? I'm sorry, but this outcome is not at all extraordinary. The host was polite and honest, and really, her reasoning is not horrible. This controversy is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] "hey i'm just telling you as much about me ahead of time that seems reasonable so you aren't surprised by any of my characteristics when i arrive" "thanks for that i'm gonna discriminate against you and refuse you despite the contract i agreed to explicitly saying that i can't discriminate against you like that" there is literally no way you can spin this in favour of the discriminator dude

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[QUOTE=Protocol7;50475503]So let me get this straight... In an effort for full disclosure, they stated they were trans. Then, with the knowledge given to them, the host decided to not host them... based on information disclosed in advance. Now, why would anyone disclose anything ahead of time? Perhaps, you'd think, the information disclosed would potentially affect your stay? Like it did here...? I'm sorry, but this outcome is not at all extraordinary. The host was polite and honest, and really, her reasoning is not horrible. This controversy is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] People like the woman in question are the reason for disclosing ahead of time. Imagine if the person who booked the stay turned up, with the reasonable expectation that they'd have a place to stay, but then when she arrives the host turns them away for being what they are. Then she's left with nowhere to stay. Thats a perfectly valid reason for disclosing something like this, even if discrimination is against the companies policy. Also, I find it funny that she thinks a transgender person person would discomfort her son, but yet apparantley any other complete stranger using their house as a hotel wouldn't at all.

[QUOTE=Judas;50474628]how is going through puberty relevant? how would being trans make a person uncomfortable?[/QUOTE] maybe because trans people are extremely uncomfortable to be around?

[QUOTE=Melnek;50476446]maybe because trans people are extremely uncomfortable to be around?[/QUOTE] Why

It's like the woman offered the information that she's transgender almost expecting a reaction of some kind, what other reason would she mention it for?

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50474917]Once again can't compare race with sexuality. It is like explaining homosexuality. Thankfully we've gotten pretty far with parents explaining homosexuality without being pieces of shit. We're still in the early stages of explaining trans people. You're right. Parents don't understand those things and it makes them uncomfortable. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] Yes. Can't work for Airbnb though.[/QUOTE] No it wouldn't holy shit if you are uncomfortable with black people staying you ask yourself why am I a fucking racist like maaan are you aware of what you are saying?

[QUOTE=phygon;50476588]Why[/QUOTE] too controversial, too weird and still not fully recognized by society this makes it very difficult to be around trans people because you never know how to approach them or speak to them because you need to choose your words carefully. even the pronouns you address them by are critical. it takes a massive toll on the socializing part when you understand just how sensitive it all is, once trans people become part of society rather than a group still trying to find their place, its going to be uncomfortable, awkward and tense to varying degrees no matter what you do. especially around young children, which is why it is fully understandable and even relatable that this woman decided not to involve herself with this person.

No it's not. That's what they are kids for. If they get confused you use parenting to clear it up and prepare them for the future. The only one who is probably confused by a trans person is the mother here.

[QUOTE=Killuah;50476775]No it's not. That's what they are kids for. If they get confused you use parenting to clear it up and prepare them for the future. The only one who is probably confused by a trans person is the mother here.[/QUOTE] The mother doesn't understand therefore her maternal instincts have influenced her decision. People should not be berated for their feelings because Transgender people do what they do because of how they feel.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50476756]too controversial, too weird and still not fully recognized by society this makes it very difficult to be around trans people because you never know how to approach them or speak to them because you need to choose your words carefully. even the pronouns you address them by are critical. it takes a massive toll on the socializing part when you understand just how sensitive it all is, once trans people become part of society rather than a group still trying to find their place, its going to be uncomfortable, awkward and tense to varying degrees no matter what you do. especially around young children, which is why it is fully understandable and even relatable that this woman decided not to involve herself with this person.[/QUOTE] Talking to someone who is transgender really isn't the arduous, stressful, toll-inducing endeavor you make it out to be and they will never become not weird (to you) and not fully recognized (to people like you) as long as you keep treating them like a separate caste. I also don't see the young children argument at all, chiefly because you can generally circumvent the whole transgender issue by just introducing someone who may, for instance, be MTF as Ms whatever. If being transgender itself comes up then explain to them in ways they will understand. This shit ain't rocket surgery and I can't tell if your posts are genuine social awkwardness or concern trolling. [editline]8th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=karlosfandango;50476788]The mother doesn't understand therefore her maternal instincts have influenced her decision. People should not be berated for their feelings because Transgender people do what they do because of how they feel.[/QUOTE] I don't see anyone berating her, I see people struggling to grasp the logic of feeling uncomfortable around transgender people.

Chernobyl is trying to say that as a person letting people into their own home, they have a right to deny people entry but if they do so, cannot work under Airbnb. Not that is it a RIGHT decision to make, that the person has a right to. Be it a shitty thing to do or not.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50476825]Talking to someone who is transgender really isn't the arduous, stressful, toll-inducing endeavor you make it out to be and they will never become not weird (to you) and not fully recognized (to people like you) as long as you keep treating them like a separate caste. I also don't see the young children argument at all, chiefly because you can generally circumvent the whole transgender issue by just introducing someone who may, for instance, be MTF as Ms whatever. If being transgender itself comes up then explain to them in ways they will understand. This shit ain't rocket surgery and I can't tell if your posts are genuine social awkwardness or concern trolling.[/QUOTE] i wasn't talking about myself, i was talking about society by and large the world is separated from whatever internet arguments and common sense may dictate to you. you cannot ignore the social toll that the fight for equality has claimed by going "just explain it to people lol" because that's not how society works. the fact of the matter is that LGBT and trans especially are still a very much contested and delicate subject and glossing over it is literally ignoring the reality of the situation. it's remains too controversial. i don't know what fairy tale world you live in but even ignoring my anecdotal presumptions, there is an abundance of data showing that trans people are still being discriminated against by and large, everywhere around the world with no regard to culture, upbringing or social status. intelligent and successful people may very well still mock and reject the very notion of transgenderism just like the poor and uneducated do. the only group making any real progress and the one that is spearheading the entire LGBT movement is the homosexual community and even they still face discrimination and controversy. "just explain to them in ways they will understand", doesnt work. "just" doing whatever it is you think appeals to peoples commons sense doesnt work because their common sense is dictated by fundamentals different to yours. you fail to grasp this.

[QUOTE=Hanso;50476932]Chernobyl is trying to say that as a person letting people into their own home, they have a right to deny people entry but if they do so, cannot work under Airbnb. Not that is it a RIGHT decision to make, that the person has a right to. Be it a shitty thing to do or not.[/QUOTE] Except you sign that away the moment you sign the contract with AirBnB [editline]8th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Melnek;50476952]i wasn't talking about myself, i was talking about society by and large the world is separated from whatever internet arguments and common sense may dictate to you. you cannot ignore the social toll that the fight for equality has claimed by going "just explain it to people lol" because that's not how society works. the fact of the matter is that LGBT and trans especially are still a very much contested and delicate subject and glossing over it is literally ignoring the reality of the situation. it's remains too controversial. i don't know what fairy tale world you live in but even ignoring my anecdotal presumptions, there is an abundance of data showing that trans people are still being discriminated against by and large, everywhere around the world with no regard to culture, upbringing or social status. intelligent and successful people may very well still mock and reject the very notion of transgenderism just like the poor and uneducated do. the only group making any real progress and the one that is spearheading the entire LGBT movement is the homosexual community and even they still face discrimination and controversy. "just explain to them in ways they will understand", doesnt work. "just" doing whatever it is you think appeals to peoples commons sense doesnt work because their common sense is dictated by fundamentals different to yours. you fail to grasp this.[/QUOTE] no shit. now guess how posting stuff like [quote] trans people are extremely uncomfortable to be around?[/quote] is helping that

[QUOTE=Killuah;50476976]Except you sign that away the moment you sign the contract with AirBnB [editline]8th June 2016[/editline] no shit. now guess how posting stuff like is helping that[/QUOTE] it bares absolutely no effect? it's literally just stating a fact and the reality of the current situation

[QUOTE=Melnek;50476989]it bares absolutely no effect? it's literally just stating a fact and the reality of the current situation[/QUOTE] Being awkward around transgender is not reality of the current situation, it's the reality of YOUR current situation, you even stated that

[QUOTE=Killuah;50476976]Except you sign that away the moment you sign the contract with AirBnB [/QUOTE] Yes, and that is why he mentioned the woman cannot do it while working under Airbnb or she gets the boot (and she did).