Trayvon Martin AKA "NO LIMIT NIGGA" twitter revealed (152 Pages of content)
200 replies, posted
[QUOTE=J!NX;35324194]yes
American media is bat-shit insane[/QUOTE]
This entire case is the media acting like law enforcement. Honestly any more "coverage" of the case should just be barred. Let the actual law enforcement do their job please.
Fucking hell, why does how Martin looked affect fucking anything?
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/AB_Breivik_bilde_1468_lrg.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Young_theodore_kaczynski.jpeg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Eric_Harris.JPG[/IMG]
None of those people look guilty, they all look like normal fellas just going around on their every day business, but, oh, guess what?
That's Anders Behring-Breivik, who killed 73 people, Ted Kaczynski or better known as the Unabomber, and Eric Klebold, responsible for the Columbine massacre. Due to a rather disturbing fact, in real life, the bad guys often [I]don't look like bad people[/I]. The bad guy doesn't need to have eyebags, golden teeth, tattoos everywhere, a crooked nose or an evil cackle. And that makes life all much scarier, when you come to realize, everyone out there, every person you walk by, everyone sitting on the same bus or train wagon than you are, could potentially go apeshit, and try to murder everyone they can get their hands on.
And that's the reason why we're not supposed to take law on our own hands, because looks are often deceiving, and those who don't look innocent, might just be.
Given the facts that Zimmerman's back was wet from the grass, a witness saying Trayvon started the actual fight, a police report saying Zimmerman's head and nose were bloody, security footage that showed Zimmerman having a wound on the back of his head, and the same Witness that said Trayvon started the fight, saying Zimmerman was the one that said Help a few times
I'm starting to side with Zimmerman on this one. Mr No Limit Nigga probably sucker punched the shit out of him and got the upper hand, anyone can do it. That's why they're called sucker punches. A good hit to the nose will put anyone on the ground. Did he HAVE to shoot him? Probably not. Was it legal? Probably
well, since this is going I thought I'd add another photo allegedly found on his twitter account. I cannot verify the authenticity of it and please don't mind the captioning I couldn't find one without it. Captioning, of course done by someone other than Martin.
[img]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z105/sporkfire222/800px-NoLimitNigga.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;35520606]Given the facts that Zimmerman's back was wet from the grass, a witness saying Trayvon started the actual fight, a police report saying Zimmerman's head and nose were bloody, security footage that showed Zimmerman having a wound on the back of his head, and the same Witness that said Trayvon started the fight, saying Zimmerman was the one that said Help a few times
I'm starting to side with Zimmerman on this one. Mr No Limit Nigga probably sucker punched the shit out of him and got the upper hand, anyone can do it. That's why they're called sucker punches. A good hit to the nose will put anyone on the ground. Did he HAVE to shoot him? Probably not. Was it legal? Probably[/QUOTE]
You're entirely fucking ignoring the fundamental part of this whole thing.
[B]MOTIVE.[/B]
Why would Trayvon try to beat up to the ground this really big Neighborhood Watch member that is packing a gun being himself unarmed, rather skinny and not really doing anything illegal? If I remember correctly, by the 911 call it was established that Zimmerman went after Trayvon, engaging him, even if he was warned not to do so. Trayvon was walking in the neighborhood but the actual conflict was started by Zimmerman.
[QUOTE=Lamar;35520633]well, since this is going I thought I'd add another photo allegedly found on his twitter account. I cannot verify the authenticity of it and please don't mind the captioning I couldn't find one without it. Captioning, of course done by someone other than Martin.
[img]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z105/sporkfire222/800px-NoLimitNigga.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Okay so the kid was influenced by other black people. What's your point? This doesn't mean Trayvon went around killing people himself, he's just a normal teenager trying to be something he's not. You see this shit at high schools all over today.
[QUOTE=Revan564;35521028]Okay so the kid was influenced by other black people. What's your point? This doesn't mean Trayvon went around killing people himself, he's just a normal teenager trying to be something he's not. You see this shit at high schools all over today.[/QUOTE]
There is no point, it's the newest picture found from Trayvon's twitter. I left an explanation about the captions
[QUOTE=Lamar;35520633]well, since this is going I thought I'd add another photo allegedly found on his twitter account. I cannot verify the authenticity of it and please don't mind the captioning I couldn't find one without it. Captioning, of course done by someone other than Martin.
[img]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z105/sporkfire222/800px-NoLimitNigga.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
He's holding up a few dollars and flipping the bird in a powder blue polo, what the fuck does that matter?
[QUOTE=Revan564;35521028]Okay so the kid was influenced by other black people. What's your point? This doesn't mean Trayvon went around killing people himself, he's just a normal teenager trying to be something he's not. You see this shit at high schools all over today.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35520666]You're entirely fucking ignoring the fundamental part of this whole thing.
[B]MOTIVE.[/B]
Why would Trayvon try to beat up to the ground this really big Neighborhood Watch member that is packing a gun being himself unarmed, rather skinny and not really doing anything illegal? If I remember correctly, by the 911 call it was established that Zimmerman went after Trayvon, engaging him, even if he was warned not to do so. Trayvon was walking in the neighborhood but the actual conflict was started by Zimmerman.[/QUOTE]
These insights allow people and investigators the ability to see the kind of person that Trayvon Martin was and not just who his parents thought he was or how the media portrayed him as. With traits that resemble a 'tough-guy' attitude, it adds weight to Zimmerman's testimony that Trayvon dealt the first blow.
It's entirely possible that Trayvon thought he could 'take on' Zimmerman, not knowing Zimmerman was armed- or even that he was a part of the neighborhood, watch for that matter. It's equally possible that Trayvon wasn't just being a punk but honestly thought that Zimmerman was some sort of scum bag (pedophile, kidnapper, etc.).
Regardless, it is odd that- according to the recordings and what we know of Trayvon Martin- that at one point Zimmerman looses sight of him, and yet Martin and Zimmerman end up getting into a tussle. Not to mention, Martin is presumably more athletic than Zimmerman and could have potentially/most likely outrun him and left (since, if I remember correctly, he was fairly close to home)- but again, somehow he ends up back with Zimmerman in a confrontation. Something doesn't quite add up, here.
I'm stating this objectively, by the way. Don't mistake this for me 'demonizing' Trayvon Martin or Zimmerman. People are trying to get an idea as to what exactly happened that night by closely examining the history and personality of the two which could dictate their actions.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35520666]You're entirely fucking ignoring the fundamental part of this whole thing.
[B]MOTIVE.[/B]
Why would Trayvon try to beat up to the ground this really big Neighborhood Watch member that is packing a gun being himself unarmed, rather skinny and not really doing anything illegal? If I remember correctly, by the 911 call it was established that Zimmerman went after Trayvon, engaging him, even if he was warned not to do so. Trayvon was walking in the neighborhood but the actual conflict was started by Zimmerman.[/QUOTE]
Unless Trayvon had the abilities to read minds He wouldn't know any of that shit. I think Trayvon started the fight. I don't think Zimmerman threw the first punch at all. The kid was a little shit, more than capable of acting out with a sucker punch to start a fight. He was already suspended for two school weeks for having drugs, and had a backpack with jewelry in it and burgling tools. Looking at his tweets, his twitter account, some nice photos, school suspension, the bag... He clearly had the Gangsta Ghetto Tough Guy attitude
I think Zimmerman is an idiot for trying to play police, and probably confronted the kid, but based on the police report and a witness that saw the whole thing, I'm inclined to believe Zimmerman being in the right, as far as shooting the kid goes, under the Stand Your Ground law. I don't think anything leading up to the fight Zimmerman did was illegal, at least not that anyone knows about, let alone can prove
[QUOTE=TheTalon;35521568]Unless Trayvon had the abilities to read minds He wouldn't know any of that shit. I think Trayvon started the fight. I don't think Zimmerman threw the first punch at all. The kid was a little shit, more than capable of acting out with a sucker punch to start a fight. He was already suspended for two school weeks for having drugs, and had a backpack with jewelry in it and burgling tools. Looking at his tweets, his twitter account, some nice photos, school suspension, the bag... He clearly had the Gangsta Ghetto Tough Guy attitude[/quote]
I suspect the only reason why you think having a ghetto tough guy attitude warrants him being killed is because he's black.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35522123]I suspect the only reason why you think having a ghetto tough guy attitude warrants him being killed is because he's black.[/QUOTE]
I never said he warranted to be killed. I just said under the Stand Your Ground law it was a justified shooting, if all of what we know so far is true. Pretty sure white people can also have the Tough Guy Ghetto Attitude, too
[QUOTE=Lamar;35520633]well, since this is going I thought I'd add another photo allegedly found on his twitter account. I cannot verify the authenticity of it and please don't mind the captioning I couldn't find one without it. Captioning, of course done by someone other than Martin.
[img]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z105/sporkfire222/800px-NoLimitNigga.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Ah to be young and stupid
i don't think it's particularly cute to use the phrase "Tough Guy Ghetto Attitude" nor does putting capitals in it make it more concrete.
it's basically just a stereotype and you're basing your argument on a stereotype rather than reality. of course it's easier to argue when you argue on the terms of Trayvon being a violent "tough guy", and a "little shit" but you've only established that based on him being black and having trouble with the police.
frankly using the word ghetto attitude is incredibly stupid as it implies anyone from the ghetto must be violent and you're basically just using weasel words to obfuscate what you really are saying, which is "obviously zimmerman was in the right because Trayvon was from the ghetto and he was black."
you mention pictures and some more information, but they paint the image of a normal teenager, the only thing they have in common is that trayvon is black.
Martin didn't get shot because he was carrying Skittles.
He got shot because he followed Zimmerman back to his truck, jumped on the guy, and started beating on him. He slammed Zimmermans head into the pavement putting a 6 inch gash in Zimmermans skull, and broke Zimmerman's nose
Zimmerman had a gun.
Bad move for Martin, who called himself the "NoLimitNigga", and tweeted that he wanted to "kiII em all"
He jumped on the wrong guy and got shot.
The End.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;35522276]I never said he warranted to be killed. I just said under the Stand Your Ground law it was a justified shooting, if all of what we know so far is true. Pretty sure white people can also have the Tough Guy Ghetto Attitude, too[/QUOTE]
well minor teenage offenses are irrelevant otherwise so the only conclusion I can draw from you repeatedly bringing them up is you do think that that info is pertinent (see adding to good cause) for Martin being shot
Saying Zimmerman's back was wet is also racist. (Hook Baited)
[QUOTE=TheTalon;35521568]Unless Trayvon had the abilities to read minds He wouldn't know any of that shit. I think Trayvon started the fight. I don't think Zimmerman threw the first punch at all. The kid was a little shit, more than capable of acting out with a sucker punch to start a fight. He was already suspended for two school weeks for having drugs, and had a backpack with jewelry in it and burgling tools. Looking at his tweets, his twitter account, some nice photos, school suspension, the bag... He clearly had the Gangsta Ghetto Tough Guy attitude
I think Zimmerman is an idiot for trying to play police, and probably confronted the kid, but based on the police report and a witness that saw the whole thing, I'm inclined to believe Zimmerman being in the right, as far as shooting the kid goes, under the Stand Your Ground law. I don't think anything leading up to the fight Zimmerman did was illegal, at least not that anyone knows about, let alone can prove[/QUOTE]
Huh? I don't see how that adds up, Man finds out somebody is approaching him menacingly = Man is wizard?
It doesn't matter who threw the first punch at all, but who STARTED IT ALL. This is what I mean by motive, it is extremely unlikely that an armed, far bigger man was attacked at random by a much smaller and younger guy. There HAS to be a reason behind the scuffle, and that's what Zimmerman fails to acknowledge and what everyone, including you, ignores to make Zimmerman look good.
You're comparing a rather troubled teenager (Parents went through a divorce, not particularly wealthy, suspended because in possession of drug paraphernalia, not actual drugs) to a vigilante with noted behavior problems, a domestic violence issue
[IMG]http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images_2/trayvon-martin-and-dad-tracy-martin-3-29-12-1.jpg[/IMG]
That picture, that people use to make him look bad cause he's hanging out with gangstas and such? That's his fucking dad. His dad lived in the neighborhood and he was heading to his home with ice tea and skittles to watch the NBA game (Notice how he has an actual alibi). No drugs, no weapons, nor any incriminatory items were found in his possession. Therefore, George Zimmerman made a [I]bad judgement call[/I], which resulted in the death of a person and that is punishable by law, it's called voluntary manslaughter.
Why is this voluntary manslaughter? Because, again, people who support Zimmerman don't realize that Zimmerman [B]didn't have to chase Treyvon down[/B], and could have chosen to ignore him entirely or let the police handle it like what his job as neighborhood watch (Meaning that he probably knew who Martin's dad was, odd that he thought Treyvon was a drug dealer and not his dad too, right?) actually requires him to do. Due to his course of action, and entirely due to his course of action as he was the one that chased Treyvon down, which eventually resulted in a firearm discharge, is that Treyvon is dead.
Self defense as a legal defense requires you to be put in a position of great harm, and that violence was the only way out of it. Zimmerman put himself in that situation, Zimmerman was therefore not defending himself.
itt: idiots think that just because he was obviously an obnoxious dumb fuck, he deserved to be killed
[QUOTE=Virtanen;35528368]itt: idiots think that just because he was obviously an obnoxious dumb fuck, he deserved to be killed[/QUOTE]
I think most people are using this to just say he could have started the fight based on his personality and he isn't the angel the media tried making everyone think he was.
Also, most are probably thinking Zimmerman shooting him could have been legal if he did attack first, not really that they think he deserved to die.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35528099]It doesn't matter who threw the first punch at all, but who STARTED IT ALL.[/QUOTE]
That's ridiculous. The only reason someone ended up DEAD was because somebody started to physically fight. So if Martin threw the first punch, then yes, he 'STARTED IT ALL'. He wouldn't have been shot if he didn't get into a physical confrontation with Zimmerman since there's no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman even premeditated shooting someone that night at all (as many have gone over countless times that now it's nauseating to be repeating yet again).
Look, Mr Kodiak actually had a good post (whether it's originally his or a copy and paste is beside the point) dissecting the scenario that seems most likely to have happened because there's definitely more evidence to back it up (phone call to the 911 operator).
[QUOTE=Mr Kodiak;35519769]The night started with a 911 call from Mr. Zimmerman about a suspicious looking person walking through the neighborhood. Mr. Martin was a guest in the neighborhood and was difficult to identify by familiarity. The 911 dispatcher asked for identifying characteristics of Mr. Martin to which Mr. Zimmerman replied a black male in jeans with a hooded sweat shirt.
This brings us to our first question
Was Mr. Zimmerman's identification of Mr. Martin as a black male an indication of pre-meditation in a hate crime, or otherwise a pre disposition to illustrate facts in any other matter then straight forwardly?
It would stand to reason that the physical characteristics played little into how Mr. Zimmerman made his conclusion to involve the police. It was likely linked to the hyperbole surrounding the recent crime in the area and the zealotry Mr. Zimmerman experienced as the watch Captain. As a result race was a non issue it was the relation to a body, be it white or black in the neighborhood "looking suspicious”. What's suspicious? That’s merely up to perception.
Then could it have been a "Hate crime"? A hate crime is defined as such-
"In crime and law, hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, sex, gender identity, social status or political affiliation."
Probably not considering the race of Mr. Martin was only called into question by the 911 operator and not freely given by Mr. Zimmerman; furthermore Mr. Zimmerman concluded "I think he's black". That degree of uncertainty can call into question any intent Mr. Zimmerman may or may not have had prior to engaging Mr. Martin.
From there Mr. Zimmerman goes on to say "He's checking me out" "He's putting his hand in his waist band" "he's got something in his hand; I don't know what his deal is". I think this is instrumental in fueling Mr. Zimmerman’s mindset. That coupled with the apparent frustration of "These assholes, they always get away".
The next question is- Why did Mr. Zimmerman pursue Mr. Martin and confront him? And was it considered stalking?
After these events you can hear on the recording Mr. Zimmerman exiting his vehicle. He goes on to say "He's running" you then begin to hear wind and heavy breathing as if a pursuit has been initiated. The 911 operator asks "Are you following him"? To which Mr. Zimmerman replies "Yes" the operator says "Ok we don't need you to do that". There are two very important points to take away from this as there seems to be some confusion here.
First, the "Command" was merely a suggestion as phrased by the 911 operator.
Secondly the suggestion as it were was from a telecommunications operator NOT a police officer with any authority over what Mr. Zimmerman does. Mr. Zimmerman replied to the operator after the suggestion to desist was given "ok". The sound of wind and heavy breathing then ended.
He then went over more details with the operator for approximately one minute and forty five seconds while returning to his truck. He states when the operator asks him for his home address "I don't want to give that out I don't know where this guy is". The call is ended shortly afterward when Mr. Zimmerman agrees to meet the responding officer at his truck.
In short this unequivocally proves he ended the pursuit as suggested by the operator, contrary to what the media has been reporting.
As far as the stalking theory is concerned, Mr. Zimmerman was not guilty of his twenty second pursuit f Mr. Martin.
Language in F.S 784.048 provides the legal definition of stalking.
(2)Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
Now these are all interesting points because it defines stalking as “Malicious, repeatedly and with harassment”. Mr. Zimmerman’s short winded pursuit of Mr. Martin was not malicious in intent, was not a repeated act and was not harassment as defined in Florida statute.
Harassment is defined as such-
(a)“Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such person and serves no legitimate purpose.
Now what is considered as a course of conduct is a little ambiguous in Florida’s definition however is clearer in Federal language.
Florida  statute-
(b)“Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose. Constitutionally protected activity is not included within the meaning of “course of conduct.” Such constitutionally protected activity includes picketing or other organized protests.
Federal law-
(2) Course of conduct. - The term "course of conduct" means a pattern of conduct composed of 2 or more acts, evidencing a continuity of purpose.
So that should serve to further clarify the intent of the legislature when creating stalking laws, and what conduct actually consists of in relation to the act of stalking.
What happened after the 911 call is shrouded in controversy and mystery; however one conclusion can be drawn. The police apprehended Mr. Zimmerman after the shooting and took him in for questioning. What was found afterward with both physical evidence, testimony from Mr. Zimmerman and from two separate witnesses was that it was self defense. The idea that this must be some vast conspiracy with the denizens of the neighborhood and Sandford PD is not only ridiculous but offensive to the integrity of the very men and women who protect us day in and day out.
Another assertion drawn from the masses is that the Stand Your Ground Law is a "License to kill"
This couldn’t be further from the truth. The Florida legislature has built language and provisions into this law to prevent it being used maliciously. Below is the exact verbiage as it is stated on the Florida legislature's website.
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is "776.013 (3) attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
This is quite clear that the defendant must "Reasonably" believe that they must use deadly force if they believe such force is the only way to prevent great bodily harm or death to themselves."
That being said I have a question for you.
If someone assaulted you from behind, punched you in the face, then took you to the ground and pummeled your head repeatedly into a sidewalk would you reasonably believe that was "Imminent death or great bodily harm"? If so would you be willing to do what it took to stop the commission of that crime and protect yourself with whatever means you had available to you?
That is at the very core of the war being waged between both sides. Now a lot of the opponents to the Zimmerman defense story have said that because Mr. Zimmerman "Pursued and stalked" Mr. Martin that Mr. Martin then had the right to stand his ground and Mr. Zimmerman had then forfeited his right to self defense because he was the aggressor and that it was no longer a "Stand your ground" issue.
Firstly I would like to quash the idea that we can take "Stand your ground" as literally as it has been portrayed. The law has adopted the moniker "Stand your ground" because of the verbiage within it and the precedent it set. The true name if any can be given to this law is simply a number F.S 776.013 here I will show you the verbiage in its entirety from the legislature website.
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible "(3) felony."
From what is within that law it could be argued that whether a chase had occurred or not that Zimmerman had the right to be in any public place and so could stand his ground no matter where he was. Your personal space moves with you, and with it the area under which you can "Stand your ground". You will only be standing your ground when the situation comes to a halt and a assault occurs. That seems to be quite contradictory and has a gaping hole in it as it stands. That is why the legislature built in this beautiful provision for the justifiable use of force, which I believe fits in perfectly with this situation.
Arguments have been made Zimmerman provoked the confrontation by following him which was of course disproven by the un- redacted version of the 911 tape that was not released initially to the media. Now! Even if it wasn't, and we were still under the assumption that Zimmerman was the aggressor this law shows that how one could still fall under the stand your ground law legally.
Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter "776.041 is not available to a person who: Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; (1) or
Initially provokes the use of (2) force against himself or herself, unless:
Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or (a) great bodily harm to the assailant;"
If Martin assaulted Zimmerman after any pursuit was made Zimmerman could still use deadly force to end any assault that made him "Reasonably believe that he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm". Right wrong or indifferent this is the law and its intent was to protect everyone legally so that just because you’re a hot head you wouldn’t have to die for it in fear of what would legally happen to you if you defended yourself.
The next and to me the most disgusting portion of this debacle is the accusation that the police department "Failed" to arrest Zimmerman and that the investigation was botched. Here is a statute that will 100% remove any doubt of the conduct of the police department and their judgment that night.
A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in Immunity from criminal custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant." prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of "776.032 force.—(1)
With the evidence both physical and witness testimony it was proven that Zimmerman acted in self defense and so the Police had no probable cause to make the arrest. How can people cry for justice and in the same breath in ignorance of the law ask for circumvention in the law?
Justice is defined as a concept of moral rightness based on ethics, rationality, law, natural law, religion, or equity, along with the punishment of the breach of said ethics; justice is the act of being just and/or fair. There is nothing Rational about jumping to conclusions with sensational headlines, asking for justice via breaking a well founded law and asking for a punishment that is not warranted[/QUOTE]
Disappointingly, we now know that Zimmerman will be tried for something. To what degree is yet to be decided of course. I'd like to think that it'd be a relative light charge all things considered but...not going to be surprised either way it goes. Maybe the judge knows something we don't so hopefully things come together when the trial ends.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35528593]That's ridiculous. The only reason someone ended up DEAD was because somebody started to physically fight. So if Martin threw the first punch, then yes, he 'STARTED IT ALL'. He wouldn't have been shot if he didn't get into a physical confrontation with Zimmerman since there's no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman even premeditated shooting someone that night at all (as many have gone over countless times that now it's nauseating to be repeating yet again).[/QUOTE]
You know what also could've prevented Trayvon from getting shot? Zimmerman not going after him like he was advised.
Oh god OP please change your pic.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35528593]That's ridiculous. The only reason someone ended up DEAD was because somebody started to physically fight. So if Martin threw the first punch, then yes, he 'STARTED IT ALL'. He wouldn't have been shot if he didn't get into a physical confrontation with Zimmerman since there's no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman even premeditated shooting someone that night at all (as many have gone over countless times that now it's nauseating to be repeating yet again).[/QUOTE]
He wouldn't need to get in a fight if Zimmerman didn't start to chase him down at all. He CHASED HIM DOWN, therefore allowing Treyvon to be able to defend himself as he found himself threatened by this burly dude suddenly chasing him down a street as he's just walking to his dad's house. It has been established repeatedly, by evidence, by the 911 call, that Zimmerman had absolutely no reason to go after Treyvon. Name ONE good reason why Treyvon would want to go straight towards Zimmerman with no provocation and take him down to the ground.
What you're suggesting is that Trayvon, on foot, attacked a man that outweighted and towered over him, was armed, and on a car, and chasing him, for little to no reason on a way that is entirely contrary to what common sense dictates. You're also suggesting that Zimmerman, didn't see someone coming after him, didn't take his gun out the second he allegedly saw Treyvon coming after him, had his back turned the whole time while standing aimlessly on the grass, and could do absolutely nothing else but take out his gun disregarding the fact he does have arms and an anger problem and could have therefore done some damage to that kid.
He wouldn't have been shot if there wasn't anybody looking for a fight to begin with. I love how you disregarded my entire post just to comment at that little part and taking things out of context. Doesn't make you any better than the media.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35529162]. It has been established repeatedly, by evidence, by the 911 call, that Zimmerman had absolutely no reason to go after Treyvon.[/QUOTE]
Funny, it's been established repeatedly that Zimmerman was well within his right as neighborhood watch to confront Martin. To the degree that he actually went "after" Treyvon is still disputed. So is the degree that he confronted Martin. In fact, my quote in my post (which you, ironically, ignore entirely as well) touches on that subject with a logical assumption based on the actual call itself. Give it a read.
[quote]Name ONE good reason why Treyvon would want to go straight towards Zimmerman with no provocation and take him down to the ground.[/quote]
Honestly? I don't know. I'm not Martin. But since you like to use Zimmerman's single domestic violence which against him to condemn the man's character (despite neighbors testimony that he's a generally, well-mannered man of good intentions who cared about his neighborhood) we can do so similarly against Martin; the "No Limit Nigga", riding two school suspensions for truancy and graffiti and hauling drug paraphernalia as well as the hundreds of pages of content on his twitter giving us an interesting insight into the boy's character. With that said maybe Martin felt that he could have taken out the relatively out shape and slow character of Zimmerman. Maybe he felt stupid that this 'fat-ass' spooked him to the point of running that he felt it necessary to give the guy a piece of his mind (or fist in this case) because he thought he was hard. Point is, we don't know and we won't know so I don't see your point in arguing just because YOU believe that it doesn't make sense.
[quote]What you're suggesting is that Trayvon, on foot, attacked a man that outweighted and towered over him, was armed, and on a car, and chasing him, for little to no reason on a way that is entirely contrary to what common sense dictates. You're also suggesting that Zimmerman, didn't see someone coming after him, didn't take his gun out the second he allegedly saw Treyvon coming after him, had his back turned the whole time while standing aimlessly on the grass, and could do absolutely nothing else but take out his gun disregarding the fact he does have arms and an anger problem and could have therefore done some damage to that kid.[/quote]
Not if he was sucker punched. Which is also entirely likely to have happened as well (backed up and dissected by the quote in my original post, once again). I think you give little credit to the 17 year old kid that Martin was. He used to play football after all and had some sort of athletic prowess about him.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]To the degree that he actually went "after" Treyvon is still disputed.[/QUOTE]
uh no it's not.
[quote]At 2:07 minutes into the police call Zimmerman says "he's running". At 2:37 into the call Zimmerman tells the dispatcher, "he ran". After he can't tell the dispatcher the address of his current location, the dispatcher asks Zimmerman for his apartment number. Zimmerman tells him the numbers of his street address and then at 3:35 adds "Oh crap, I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is". Zimmerman appears to hang up at the 4:05 mark, almost two minutes after the comment that Martin was running. The recording ends at 4:11.[/quote]
Trayvon ran away and Zimmerman chased him.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]Funny, it's been established repeatedly that Zimmerman was well within his right as neighborhood watch to confront Martin. To the degree that he actually went "after" Treyvon is still disputed. So is the degree that he confronted Martin. In fact, my quote in my post (which you, ironically, ignore entirely as well) touches on that subject with a logical assumption based on the actual call itself. Give it a read.
Honestly? I don't know. I'm not Martin. But since you like to use Zimmerman's single domestic violence which against him to condemn the man's character (despite neighbors testimony that he's a generally, well-mannered man of good intentions who cared about his neighborhood) we can do so similarly against Martin; the "No Limit Nigga", riding two school suspensions for truancy and graffiti and hauling drug paraphernalia as well as the hundreds of pages of content on his twitter giving us an interesting insight into the boy's character. With that said maybe Martin felt that he could have taken out the relatively out shape and slow character of Zimmerman. Maybe he felt stupid that this 'fat-ass' spooked him to the point of running that he felt it necessary to give the guy a piece of his mind (or fist in this case) because he thought he was hard. Point is, we don't know and we won't know so I don't see your point in arguing just because YOU believe that it doesn't make sense.
Not if he was sucker punched. Which is also entirely likely to have happened as well (backed up and dissected by the quote in my original post, once again). I think you give little credit to the 17 year old kid that Martin was. He used to play football after all and had some sort of athletic prowess about him.[/QUOTE]
Uh huh. Okay, now watch this video, and please point exactly to where did Treyvon hit Zimmerman, cause I can't personally see his broken nose, his busted lip, the 6 inch gap on the back of his head (NOTE: There is an injury on the back of his head but it ain't no 6 inch gap, it's more of a gash or scrape) His limbs seem to be okay and not fractured, he seems to be breathing normally and therefore had no broken ribs or anything. Even if this video wasn't taken at the exact day of the arrest but later, those are all injuries that take at least 2 weeks to fully heal (If he's some sort of mutant with a healing factor that is). Did Treyvon really hurt him that badly?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx0UgvbesYE[/media]
The whole thing of Treyvon striking first and taking him to the ground and instead of running away like any normal person would have done he pounced and attacked him doesn't fit, mainly because there are no injuries on Zimmerman, but hey, let's completely try to debunk it instead. Why would Zimmerman yell for help, THEN shoot the guy? Why was he entirely unable to subdue him, being the trained and exceptional neighborhood watch you claim he is? Why would Treyvon run away, THEN turn around and go back running just to punch him, as opposed to going all the way home, considering that Treyvon had never showed overtly violent behavior? Why would he call his girlfriend, telling her that he was afraid that a man in an SUV was following him, if all he wanted was to bonk a fat guy's head? Doesn't this contradict entirely the 911 call that stated that Zimmerman SAW HIM RUN AWAY, and then went after him? [I]Where did he punch him in the first place[/I]?
You really wanna go down that path? Just shrug off the info on Zimmerman and try to make him look like a saint? 'Cause I can find a hell load more about Treyvon, who was just your nowadays average black teenager, got A's and B's on his classes, and was described by his classmates as quiet, respectful, usually coming to class wearing a hoodie, who's favorite subject was math and wanted to be a career in aviation. Hell, here's the Miami Herald article [url]http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/v-fullstory/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35530589]Uh huh. Okay, now watch this video, and please point exactly to where did Treyvon hit Zimmerman, cause I can't personally see his broken nose, his busted lip, the 6 inch gap on the back of his head (NOTE: There is an injury on the back of his head but it ain't no 6 inch gap, it's more of a gash or scrape) His limbs seem to be okay and not fractured, he seems to be breathing normally and therefore had no broken ribs or anything. Even if this video wasn't taken at the exact day of the arrest but later, those are all injuries that take at least 2 weeks to fully heal (If he's some sort of mutant with a healing factor that is). Did Treyvon really hurt him that badly?[/QUOTE]
The extent of his injuries are fairly circumstantial as opposed to how any injury is on him in the first place; especially considering how they are most likely exaggerated after the initial encounter until further medical examinations are made. Unless of course, Martin had equal- if not worse- injuries on him (minus the gunshot wound, of course). Not to mention, if Zimmerman has a scrape on the back of his head, and the two of them were in a tussle, then it suggests that Martin was on top of him, possibly getting the upper hand in the fight (which may be the moment where Zimmerman claims [i]he[/i] yelled for help). Which would also suggest that Zimmerman felt he had no choice but to finally draw his firearm (as of this moment, there is nothing- to my knowledge- to suggest that Zimmerman had drawn his firearm until around this point) and shoot Martin.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35530589]
The whole thing of Treyvon striking first and taking him to the ground and instead of running away like any normal person would have done he pounced and attacked him doesn't fit, mainly because there are no injuries on Zimmerman, but hey, let's completely try to debunk it instead.[/QUOTE]
No injuries? You mean, minus the scrape on his head and the- albeit minor, of course- bruising on him, right?
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35530589]
Why would Zimmerman yell for help, THEN shoot the guy? Why was he entirely unable to subdue him, being the trained and exceptional neighborhood watch you claim he is? Why would Treyvon run away, THEN turn around and go back running just to punch him, as opposed to going all the way home, considering that Treyvon had never showed overtly violent behavior?[/QUOTE]
That's the million dollar question. There's an obvious discrepancy from Zimmerman [i]loosing sight of Trayvon during the chase[/i] to the the actual physical encounter. This is also where Trayvon's personality and Zimmerman's account are important to consider. Zimmerman says that Martin approached him and that they got into a fight then. Now consider the casual behavior Martin has displayed via his twitter account which is, possibly, how he acts on a day to day basis (consider: people act differently in varying social environments).
It's entirely possible Martin approached Zimmerman thinking Martin was a creep who wanted to do something to him; its possible that he didn't want to run home in fear that this person will figure out where he lives (keep in mind both Martin and Zimmerman have no idea who the other is or what role they play in society. In this case: a student and a neighborhood watchman nothing more- at the time, they have no way of knowing that). Which means that he felt he had to deal with the person himself. Whether he only confronted Zimmerman to figure out why the latter was following him or to beat him up is disputable as there is nothing but Zimmerman's account on that moment. However, and I stress, this is only a theory- a plausible one at that.
If Zimmerman's account is true, it means that he acted in self defense and feared for his life and felt the necessity to use his firearm (as I stated before). If not, we still don't know what happened that made the two of them finally get physical in their confrontation. This simple piece of information could define whether Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter or self-defense.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35530589]
Why would he call his girlfriend, telling her that he was afraid that a man in an SUV was following him, if all he wanted was to bonk a fat guy's head? Doesn't this contradict entirely the 911 call that stated that Zimmerman SAW HIM RUN AWAY, and then went after him? [I]Where did he punch him in the first place[/I]?[/QUOTE]
I think you're getting a little confused. Per my knowledge, Martin was on the phone as he walked home and noticed Zimmerman in his car watching him. At that moment, he was only wary of the strange man and cautious. Then, when Zimmerman got out of his car and started to come towards him, he decided to run. To which Zimmerman, who most likely only wanted to speak to Martin and ask what he's doing out so late, followed (likely believing him to be trouble, for sure, when he ran). As the 911 recording details, Zimmerman had lost Martin. From here, as I mentioned above, it's anyone's guess as this would require getting into the mind set and psyche of Trayvon Martin and all we have to fill in the gaps with Zimmerman's testimony and speculation.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35530589]
You really wanna go down that path? Just shrug off the info on Zimmerman and try to make him look like a saint? 'Cause I can find a hell load more about Treyvon, who was just your nowadays average black teenager, got A's and B's on his classes, and was described by his classmates as quiet, respectful, usually coming to class wearing a hoodie, who's favorite subject was math and wanted to be a career in aviation. Hell, here's the Miami Herald article [URL]http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/v-fullstory/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html[/URL][/QUOTE]
If anyone's sanctifying anyone it's you and the media with Trayvon Martin. Now, I'm not saying that the kid was 'ghetto trash who deserved to die' or anything along the lines of Vedicari's idiotic statement. But considering that recently- which excludes the some years ago where he played football (the couple years the media jumped on to make him seem like 'a young innocent kid gunned down by a bad man')- Trayvon Martin had numerous instances where he got into trouble for making graffiti, possession of drug paraphernalia, and other small incidents. Does this make him the Devil incarnate? No, far from it. But it does refute the media's, and by extension- your- claim that Martin himself was a saintly child and was, in fact, an average human teenager. Zimmerman, too, is no saint of course. But then considering what [i]his[/i] colleagues and friends say about him suggests he bears a similar manner of behavior to Trayvon Martin in the sense that he too is a nice well-mannered human being (hell, in another life, they could have been friends...). Of course, everyone should also account that no one is a hundred percent accurate on judging either of their characters without knowing absolutely everything about them
I have to stress, though, I am not for or against any side in this argument. I remain on the fence on the issue; and rather than jumping to conclusions like Zimmerman being a bloodthirsty racist or Martin being a punk 'gangsta', we have to understand how and why this incident unfolded in a realistic and logical manner. We can't just point fingers and claim 'HE DID IT!' as some people and communities are [still] doing. Frankly I believe the two of them were fairly well-intentioned and got into a misunderstanding between them that unfortunately ended in blood shed. It's a shame that cases like this get distracted with [most likely irrelevant] race politics.
Who [i]nose[/i] what he was thinking.
[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;35533268]The extent of his injuries are fairly circumstantial as opposed to how any injury is on him in the first place; especially considering how they are most likely exaggerated after the initial encounter until further medical examinations are made. Unless of course, Martin had equal- if not worse- injuries on him (minus the gunshot wound, of course). Not to mention, if Zimmerman has a scrape on the back of his head, and the two of them were in a tussle, then it suggests that Martin was on top of him, possibly getting the upper hand in the fight (which may be the moment where Zimmerman claims [i]he[/i] yelled for help). Which would also suggest that Zimmerman felt he had no choice but to finally draw his firearm (as of this moment, there is nothing- to my knowledge- to suggest that Zimmerman had drawn his firearm until around this point) and shoot Martin.[/QUOTE]
Well now this is an entirely different stance from that which you mentioned on your last post, backpedaling I see?
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]Not if he was sucker punched. Which is also entirely likely to have happened as well (backed up and dissected by the quote in my original post, once again). I think you give little credit to the 17 year old kid that Martin was. He used to play football after all and had some sort of athletic prowess about him.[/QUOTE]
But anyhow. The massive contradiction from this is why would Treyvon have the upper hand on the fight, and do [B]fucking nothing[/B] to the guy? I've been punched in the face before, even a rather weak blow can break your nose, it can swell up your eye, bust your lip, maybe even fracture cheek bones and such or a contusion. How come the 17 year old "NO-LIMIT-NIGGA" gangsta thug motherfucker just managed to do scrapes and bruises on the guy if he's beating him to death?
'Cause that's the only legal situation where murder is justified, when your own life is under great harm. But from evidence? Zimmerman wasn't even slightly harmed, hell, he could have attempted to flee like Treyvon did after Zimmerman chased him down on his car (EVIDENCE, CLAIMED BY HIM, THIS IS SAID ON THE 911 CALL). You're seriously trying to make me believe he chased down a guy on his SUV trying to detain him or get him out of the neighborhood, and he didn't even manage to do that without getting himself in harms way? Then maybe he ain't such a stellar neighborhood watch captain now, ain't he?
Or maybe, just maybe, after chasing Treyvon down, Treyvon confronted Zimmerman verbally, Zimmerman replied by pushing him on the ground, getting over him, trying to restrain him or wound him, Treyvon tried to defend himself, yelling out "Help" when he saw he was outweighted and outgunned and couldn't get away, causing Zimmerman to panic due to his anger problem, take out his gun, and shoot the kid, then try to backpedal the whole situation by claiming Treyvon hit him first and managed to hold him down to the ground, relying on police friends and ass backwards laws to not get arrested on the spot.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]No injuries? You mean, minus the scrape on his head and the- albeit minor, of course- bruising on him, right?[/QUOTE]
So that's all he got after 40 seconds of a beating? I can throw at least 25 punches towards someone's face on the very same interval. So either Treyvon was seriously crippled, or that dude is made of iron. Or maybe he didn't get jumped on, on the first place.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]That's the million dollar question. There's an obvious discrepancy from Zimmerman [i]loosing sight of Trayvon during the chase[/i] to the the actual physical encounter. This is also where Trayvon's personality and Zimmerman's account are important to consider. Zimmerman says that Martin approached him and that they got into a fight then. Now consider the casual behavior Martin has displayed via his twitter account which is, possibly, how he acts on a day to day basis (consider: people act differently in varying social environments).
It's entirely possible Martin approached Zimmerman thinking Martin was a creep who wanted to do something to him; its possible that he didn't want to run home in fear that this person will figure out where he lives (keep in mind both Martin and Zimmerman have no idea who the other is or what role they play in society. In this case: a student and a neighborhood watchman nothing more- at the time, they have no way of knowing that). Which means that he felt he had to deal with the person himself. Whether he only confronted Zimmerman to figure out why the latter was following him or to beat him up is disputable as there is nothing but Zimmerman's account on that moment. However, and I stress, this is only a theory- a plausible one at that.
If Zimmerman's account is true, it means that he acted in self defense and feared for his life and felt the necessity to use his firearm (as I stated before). If not, we still don't know what happened that made the two of them finally get physical in their confrontation. This simple piece of information could define whether Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter or self-defense.[/QUOTE]
Evidently Zimmerman found him after the 911 call ended otherwise nothing would have happened. Trayvon's first reaction, that is, to flee when he thought he was being chased ENTIRELY contradicts everything you have said. If he's such a hardass, he would have just flicked him off, and fought him like the no limit drug dealing gangsta you make him out to be, he wouldn't have ran at all because he'd probably have at least some sort of weapon on him.
You know, I actually read the tweets, about 25 pages of it and I see nothing really menacing from them aside from how people like taking them out of context. You're apparently not familiar with mainstream black culture, but calling people "nigga", acting tough, wearing loose shirts or pants or hoodies, braces, listening to hip hop, talking in a particular way, that all belongs to that social clique, and stereotyping all of them as dangerous criminals when only a minority actually actively engages in criminal activity (Kind of unrelated since criminals exist everywhere) is kind of really, really stupid. Hell, it's what happened with the Emo fad of mid 2000's, they all got stereotyped in being depressed, suicidal and committing self harm when in reality that's a minority within the whole scene.
There's actually a bunch of witnesses, it is after all a neighborhood and not some sort of film stage or ghost town. Many claim that they were pushed by the police to change their testimony which is why I'm not quoting any of them. But I can safely say that Zimmerman's account is precisely the one you're not meant to believe, and in fact you should doubt of it on it's entirety as he is the perpetrator of a potential crime and could be just saying that to save his ass. Specially if the details don't quite fit.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]I think you're getting a little confused. Per my knowledge, Martin was on the phone as he walked home and noticed Zimmerman in his car watching him. At that moment, he was only wary of the strange man and cautious. Then, when Zimmerman got out of his car and started to come towards him, he decided to run. To which Zimmerman, who most likely only wanted to speak to Martin and ask what he's doing out so late, followed (likely believing him to be trouble, for sure, when he ran). As the 911 recording details, Zimmerman had lost Martin. From here, as I mentioned above, it's anyone's guess as this would require getting into the mind set and psyche of Trayvon Martin and all we have to fill in the gaps with Zimmerman's testimony and speculation.[/QUOTE]
Before I start replying to this, I'd like to quote this one bit.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]Zimmerman, who most likely only wanted to speak to Martin and ask what he's doing out so late[/quote]
That's straight up hilarious. So he calls him a fucking punk, a drug dealer and chases him down a couple blocks on a black SUV yet he only wants to ask him what he's doing so late? That's the single most speculative shit I've ever heard from anyone defending Zimmerman.
But anyway, Zimmerman chased him on his car first (Again, 911 call) after he lost sight of him, he kept going around the block. He THEN got out of the car, after the call ended, after Martin ran away, going after him. If he really was trouble, why didn't he stay on the relative safety of his car, and instead go vigilante police on him, something the neighborhood watch are clearly not meant to do. It seems extremely odd that after this whole chase he would find himself in harms way, as after all, he had the upper hand the second he called the police on him.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]f anyone's sanctifying anyone it's you and the media with Trayvon Martin. Now, I'm not saying that the kid was 'ghetto trash who deserved to die' or anything along the lines of Vedicari's idiotic statement. But considering that recently- which excludes the some years ago where he played football (the couple years the media jumped on to make him seem like 'a young innocent kid gunned down by a bad man')- Trayvon Martin had numerous instances where he got into trouble for making graffiti, possession of drug paraphernalia, and other small incidents. Does this make him the Devil incarnate? No, far from it. But it does refute the media's, and by extension- your- claim that Martin himself was a saintly child and was, in fact, an average human teenager. Zimmerman, too, is no saint of course. But then considering what [i]his[/i] colleagues and friends say about him suggests he bears a similar manner of behavior to Trayvon Martin in the sense that he too is a nice well-mannered human being (hell, in another life, they could have been friends...). Of course, everyone should also account that no one is a hundred percent accurate on judging either of their characters without knowing absolutely everything about them[/QUOTE]
I'm not sanctifying anybody I'm simply choosing to not demonize the victim as he's dead and therefore can't do much harm anymore. He is no saint, nobody is, but he's definitely not a hardass thug "no limit nigga", in fact he seems a rather average black teenager surrounded with the usual bad influences you see in highschool. Zimmerman does have a criminal record, even if it is on rather small offenses, he just lives on the neighborhood with his wife and used to sell insurance and was enrolled in college before the shooting. Ted Kaczynski was a genius with an IQ of 167 that skipped a grade, did Laplace transforms while still on highschool just for fun, graduated from Harvard, had a PhD from the University of Michigan and taught undergraduates in UC Berkeley.
Ted Kaczynski, however, killed three people and injured 23 with the mail bombs he sent through a 25 year crusade where he lived on a hut with no water or electricity. This is something I have stated so many times over, and that is that looks don't matter at fucking all, everyone has the potential of committing murder. And when they do, when someone tramples on that fundamental right, is when they stop being whatever they were, and become criminals. George Zimmerman denied a young man from his future because of a bad judgement call, a lesson is learned but the damage is irreversible, and a man that shows no repentance from committing a heinous act like this deserves no respect nor praise.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35529703]I have to stress, though, I am not for or against any side in this argument. I remain on the fence on the issue; and rather than jumping to conclusions like Zimmerman being a bloodthirsty racist or Martin being a punk 'gangsta', we have to understand how and why this incident unfolded in a realistic and logical manner. We can't just point fingers and claim 'HE DID IT!' as some people and communities are [still] doing. Frankly I believe the two of them were fairly well-intentioned and got into a misunderstanding between them that unfortunately ended in blood shed. It's a shame that cases like this get distracted with [most likely irrelevant] race politics.[/QUOTE]
I never said that Zimmerman is a racist. Not once have I claimed that. This isn't a racially motivated murder, that's what I have always claimed. Who's making this racist? People who claim that because of how fucking Treyvon looked he deserved to die cause he was most likely a thug. This is wrong in every way and is simply not justification for murder, looks are deceiving and I'm sorry that I keep on stating this but people keep fucking ignoring it.
There's one issue with what you said though. He did it, oh he did it fair and square. What we don't know if he meant to do it on the first place. And that is why I'm quitting this thread and all discussion on this now that an actual legal process has been opened, I'll let the jury decide whether he's guilty or not.
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