"Bear up in the sky" - Russia officially joined the fight in Syria. - Polidicks

Supposedly Russia bombed areas not controlled by ISIS, but I need to find a better source. [url]http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/US-official-Russian-air-strikes-in-Syria-not-targeting-Islamic-State-areas-419502?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter[/url]

Wouldn't Russia be fighting the Syrian Rebels that the US is supporting? Sounds very Cold War-y

[QUOTE=Pilot1215;48794418]Supposedly Russia bombed areas not controlled by ISIS, but I need to find a better source. [url]http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/US-official-Russian-air-strikes-in-Syria-not-targeting-Islamic-State-areas-419502?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter[/url][/QUOTE] [url]http://news.yahoo.com/russian-air-strikes-syria-not-targeting-islamic-state-131653392.html[/url] [editline]30th September 2015[/editline] Timeline in the telegraph: [QUOTE]14.38 Bebars al-Telawi, a media activist from the Syrian city of Homs, which was just hit with Russian jets, tells the Telegraph's Nabih Bulos in Beirut via Skype: "Before yesterday there were reconnaissance aircraft that we had never seen before flying over our area. They were checking out targets. But today, the planes came from the coast, not from the eastern area or from the direction of Hama where there are regime bases. We're used to seeing them come from there. But today was different, and they did this so they could wage attacks on the northern countryside of Homs. It was also a different type of plane than one we had seen in the past. "In the last seven days, the regime's planes were attacking Palmyra and Qaryatayn, which are both held by Daesh (Isil) and are in the eastern part of Homs [province]. Today, they struck the western side of Homs, and there is no Daesh there. This means that now everything is allowed; anyone against Bashar [al-Assad] will be a target." [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]14.54 Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says at least 27 dead, including five women and six children, from the strikes in the towns of al-Rastan and Talbisah as well as the village of al-Zafaraaneh. All are in the northern Homs countryside. They added the number of dead is likely to rise as there are many still buried under the rubble.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11900853/Putin-request-for-use-of-Russian-troops-in-Syria-approved-live.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11900853/Putin-request-for-use-of-Russian-troops-in-Syria-approved-live.html[/URL]

I was hoping something like this would happen. The war drums are beating pretty hard right now to take on ISIS but I didn't think the US should commit without major international support. With Russia in Syria, dealing with ISIS in Iraq should be both easier and more productive.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48794081]Iunno, it would take a big commitment and a lot of time to oust ISIS from Syria. The United States struggled to keep Iraq stable, and I don't have high hopes for Russia considering the state of their military.[/QUOTE] We failed in Iraq because the US government wasn't in the right mindset from the start. We didn't have enough troops deployed to saturate the country and interact with the people to gain trust and enact real change, instead they tried a 'low impact' war that involved a lot of airstrikes, drones and heavily armored convoy patrols leaving large fortified bases. It wasn't the full commitment that we should have made and it never built the trust it needed with the people, so they lacked faith in the new Iraqi Government, which caused the majority of the Iraqi army to just fold because of fear and a lack of support. I think Russia, because it wants territory and ports in Syria is going to devote what it is actually going to take to rid the country of ISIS. I think Russia has the stomach to follow through on a campaign that actually inflicts enough damage on ISIS to stop them from growing in the area.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into Afghan 2.0, but at least its against an actual threat, ISIS.

[QUOTE=Ajacks;48794519]We failed in Iraq because the US government wasn't in the right mindset from the start. We didn't have enough troops deployed to saturate the country and interact with the people to gain trust and enact real change, instead they tried a 'low impact' war that involved a lot of airstrikes, drones and heavily armored convoy patrols leaving large fortified bases. It wasn't the full commitment that we should have made and it never built the trust it needed with the people, so they lacked faith in the new Iraqi Government, which caused the majority of the Iraqi army to just fold because of fear and a lack of support. I think Russia, because it wants territory and ports in Syria is going to devote what it is actually going to take to rid the country of ISIS. I think Russia has the stomach to follow through on a campaign that actually inflicts enough damage on ISIS to stop them from growing in the area.[/QUOTE] You're ignoring all the posts above yours with reports that Russia isn't actually attacking ISIS. They're just bombing anyone who is in the general area of anyone against Assad.

I believe that the call for removings of kebab from the premises has been answered! I wish the brave russian soldiers good luck and fight hard. No mercy.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;48794621]You're ignoring all the posts above yours with reports that Russia isn't actually attacking ISIS. They're just bombing anyone who is in the general area of anyone against Assad.[/QUOTE] An enemy of my ally is an enemy I guess. They're there to protect Assad's regime, kicking ISIS/extremism out of Syria is more of a side effect imo.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;48794621]You're ignoring all the posts above yours with reports that Russia isn't actually attacking ISIS. They're just bombing anyone who is in the general area of anyone against Assad.[/QUOTE] They were attacking Jaysh al-Fatah, the most immediate threats to Assad controlled areas. You're going to have civilian causalities, that's an unfortunate side effect of waging a war, especially a war where the enemy is hiding in a house with women and children. To take back Syria for Assad you can't just fight ISIS. In a perfect world all the rebel groups lay down their arms, and Assad backs down from power, and somehow a new government is peacefully enacted, in reality, all these groups are biding for their chance to control, some with more just causes than others but regardless, the most logical way to a free Syria seems to be to boost Assad back up, take control of the country and then reform. As far as civilian causalities, the US lead coalition in Iraq killed 260 innocent civilians as the result of airstrikes against ISIL in August alone. So Russia getting the glaring eyes of the world on them for intervening and having civilian causalities isn't any different than whats been going on for literally years in Iraq.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48793602]Have you missed the recent threads related to this about Russia and America in talks? Basically Russia is going in full force while America keeps on with their air strikes. Also to commemorate ISIS about to get fucked royally. [/QUOTE] Actually I did, I thought America was strictly against it.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;48794662]An enemy of my ally is an enemy I guess. They're there to protect Assad's regime, kicking ISIS/extremism out of Syria is more of a side effect imo.[/QUOTE] Here's how things get complicated: Russia has an interest in both assisting Assad's regime and Iran (with whom they just signed a $22 billion dollar deal for various defense contracts). Iran is currently assisting Assad by way of Hezbollah, their proxy military in Lebanon. However, Iran and Hezbollah have interests in Syria beyond just protecting Assad: they're attempting to capture positions along the Israeli-Syrian border to create another front with Israel in addition to the one in the Lebanese border. Israel has committed to preventing Hezbollah from changing the balance of power in the area by way of transferring Syrian/Iranian weapons to Hezbollah or Hezbollah positions on the border, and has consistently attacked any such attempt (including exploding a Hezbollah mission on the border that killed high ranking Hezbollah and Iranian officers). Israel also attacks Syrian military positions whenever any artillery fire crosses the border to our side. So. What happens now that Russia is involved? Do Israel and Russia stay out of each other's way? OR is this proxy war going to get even more messy, cold war style?

I can't see a victory for Assad bringing anything resembling stability for the region. This whole war was started due to the decades of an oppressive regime, and the ruthless slaughter of people who tried to protest it. Allowing the current government to remain in power is only going to give rise to more extremist groups that present themselves as a viable alternative; the same as ISIS did.

They're using the fog of war again. Just like how they denied doing anything in Crimea even though literally everyone knew it was them, now they insist they're bombing ISIS while blatantly targeting areas controlled by different groups. It just confuses everyone and buys them time to do whatever they want to do.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;48794621]You're ignoring all the posts above yours with reports that Russia isn't actually attacking ISIS. They're just bombing anyone who is in the general area of anyone against Assad.[/QUOTE] I mean that's Russia in a nutshell though bro.

[QUOTE=smurfy;48794958]They're using the fog of war again. Just like how they denied doing anything in Crimea even though literally everyone knew it was them, now they insist they're bombing ISIS while blatantly targeting areas controlled by different groups. It just confuses everyone and buys them time to do whatever they want to do.[/QUOTE] Well cuz - [QUOTE=Ajacks;48794695]They were attacking Jaysh al-Fatah, the most immediate threats to Assad controlled areas. You're going to have civilian causalities, that's an unfortunate side effect of waging a war, especially a war where the enemy is hiding in a house with women and children. To take back Syria for Assad you can't just fight ISIS. In a perfect world all the rebel groups lay down their arms, and Assad backs down from power, and somehow a new government is peacefully enacted, in reality, all these groups are biding for their chance to control, some with more just causes than others but regardless, the most logical way to a free Syria seems to be to boost Assad back up, take control of the country and then reform. As far as civilian causalities, the US lead coalition in Iraq killed 260 innocent civilians as the result of airstrikes against ISIL in August alone. So Russia getting the glaring eyes of the world on them for intervening and having civilian causalities isn't any different than whats been going on for literally years in Iraq.[/QUOTE] not to mention that it is literally a first day of participation and Russia recognises only Assad and Kurd forces as non hostile targets. Soo i'd say you should've be not surprised by that but rather by fact that it is now happening with silent approval from Pentagon. Oh, here's a vid btw [media]https://youtu.be/oqJPVlDdLek[/media]

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48794311]Yeah, this. ISIS will either break down into an insurgency, completely shatter and everyone involved joins other groups, or it fractures into smaller insurgent cells. Really only one of those options ends in the organization going away, it doesn't actually solve the problem. I mean we've tried every way we could outside of just going medieval on the place to stamp out insurgencies. Yeah, a lot of endeavors fell short because of poor execution, but getting rid of insurgents is [i]hard.[/i] [editline]30th September 2015[/editline] Plus it wouldn't surprise me if Russia and China were treating this like practice, learning the skills needed so they can project force into far away places like we can. China would definitely be interested in that since their ultimate goal is clearly to oust us from our position at the top. (especially in the Pacific)[/QUOTE] China is fucking around Africa and they have their own insurgency problems in western China. So they have their little playground yet they seem to act like retards. The issue here, which nobody seemed to discuss, is the fact that the US wasn't FULL against Assad. Basically, the Assad family got into power and held it thanks to the Soviets. And so with them, the alawites gained power. And I'm talking about a minuscule, tiny minority controlling the whole country. Heck, I can bet right now, that it's easier to find a palestinian judge in Israel, than to find someone who's not from the alawites in a position of power in Syria. And as such, to control the country, The Assad's went around rounding people, executing them, you know, ol'fashioned 60's stuff. The thing is, they kept doing it well into the XXI century, and that started pissing people off. Throw in some shitty economy, huge inequality, racial/ethnic issues and repression and you got a nice happy fuck up cake. [B]So, was the rebellion incited by the US? Bullshit.[/B] In fact, the rebellion wasn't given full support by the US. A common critique against Obama coming from all the pro democracy and history savvy spectrum (Chomsky, among them), is that, this time, an organized rebellion erupted with a clear objective of having a democracy from the same sectors that integrated the power of that country and without any Islamic salsa added to it. Buuuut, the US said.....Eeeeemmmm....well, you guys, it's like, yes, we're pro democracy and all that stuff BUT at this right moment, we're not into that mood, you know? So have some ATGM, a couple of MANPADS, here we send 2 or 3 delta guys to train some of you and we'll see what we can do in the political table. Fast forward almost a decade, half the country has fallen into ISIS, Assad continues to be a dickhead and Russia can now shove their position down the throats of everyone else even more. EDIT: Please, no one be an idiot and come off shouting at me "Dur hurr us is wanted to be seen as world police but do that argg US Bad and doesnt do that argghhh US bad" and that kind of commentaries. I'm just pointing out something that's not really talked about here. That doesn't takes off the blame from Russia who simply didn't want anyone to help Assad and would do all kinds of stuff to keep him in power.

Aaand now reports are coming in that the Russians in fact bombed FSA positions, mostly killing civilians. They also warned the USA to stay out of their airspace while they do it. Great start.

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;48795603]Aaand now reports are coming in that the Russians in fact bombed FSA positions, mostly killing civilians. They also warned the USA to stay out of their airspace while they do it. Great start.[/QUOTE] Surprise? They want no opposition against Assad. And wouldn't be surprised if they pull off again some markisovksa or that shit again related to ISIS, US or FSA...

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48795621]markisovksa[/QUOTE] What?

[T][/T][QUOTE=antianan;48795773]What?[/QUOTE] Wikipedia it, it's markirovska, maskirovka, something like that, you know, russian. Its a pretty long read, but actually, extremely interesting. Basically: do stuff no one expects, at the time no one expects, without being able to be exposed and trying to put the blame on someone else. I say again, because they did it in Crimea with their little green men, and they also did it in eastern Ukraine. So they must have something under their sleeves or propping up something powerful.

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48795536]China is fucking around Africa and they have their own insurgency problems in western China. So they have their little playground yet they seem to act like retards.[/QUOTE]Africa seems more like economic opportunity for the Chinese, everyone's largely ignoring or forgetting about Africa so they can play around with that all they want without getting checked. This seems like an opportunity to take a real step in participating in the Middle East, something that would serve their interests and give their military real experience since the most it's had is getting battered by the NVA in the late 70's and antagonizing it's neighbors. [QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48795536]The issue here, which nobody seemed to discuss, is the fact that the US wasn't FULL against Assad.[/QUOTE]That's kind of pointless to discuss, we really didn't want to get involved because it didn't coincide with the current administration's foreign policy goals and we were wary of sending more troops to a Middle Eastern war. We were gentle with it, we didn't like Assad but we didn't want to back the FSA which meant dealing with Russia pitching a fit (at the time Russia had a habit of threatening to shut off the gas to Europe) and actually getting involved [I]again.[/I] Public support was strongly against it. [QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48795536]Basically, the Assad family got into power and held it thanks to the Soviets. And so with them, the alawites gained power. And I'm talking about a minuscule, tiny minority controlling the whole country. Heck, I can bet right now, that it's easier to find a palestinian judge in Israel, than to find someone who's not from the alawites in a position of power in Syria.[/QUOTE]Oh, you're absolutely right about this though, I don't think anyone was surprised when Arab Spring led into a Syrian Civil War. Issue is there was enough who supported Assad to keep the pain train chugging along and they were largely Arabs. I mean I don't disagree with what you're saying, but the only people this should be directed at is the morons who think Assad can do no wrong. They won't listen either, you bring up warcrimes and it's the "oh so you support terorists" bullshit all over again. [QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48795536][B]So, was the rebellion incited by the US? Bullshit.[/B] In fact, the rebellion wasn't given full support by the US. A common critique against Obama coming from all the pro democracy and history savvy spectrum (Chomsky, among them), is that, this time, an organized rebellion erupted with a clear objective of having a democracy from the same sectors that integrated the power of that country and without any Islamic salsa added to it.[/QUOTE]Fuckin' A, that's what I've thought for awhile now. Had we supported the FSA (didn't seem like a good option at the time though, I was more interested in the Kurdish situation anyway) in full there's a good chance we could have made it conditional and kept the religious factions out through that. Short term it would have supported ISIS, but that happened anyway when the FSA tried to crack down on the jihadists in their ranks and [U]completely[/U] fucked the dog on that one.[QUOTE=antianan;48795773]What?[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48795937]Basically: do stuff no one expects, at the time no one expects, without being able to be exposed and trying to put the blame on someone else.[/QUOTE]antianan or any other Russian, is there a term that covers this in your language? I know what he's talking about, but I'm curious as to what you guys call it.

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48795937][T][/T] Wikipedia it, it's markirovska, maskirovka, something like that, you know, russian. Its a pretty long read, but actually, extremely interesting. Basically: do stuff no one expects, at the time no one expects, without being able to be exposed and trying to put the blame on someone else. [/QUOTE] "Maskirovka", маскировка, yeah, I'm pretty sure you mean more like a false flag or something like that though. Maskirovka just means camouflage. [editline]30th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48796992]antianan or any other Russian, is there a term that covers this in your language? I know what he's talking about, but I'm curious as to what you guys call it.[/QUOTE] No idea. I don't think there's a specific term for that kind of stuff, our military is not that hell bent of codifying everything.

Relevant @ 0:44 [video]https://youtu.be/ba2IRyq3dyE?t=44s[/video]

[QUOTE=BFG9000;48797358]Relevant @ 0:44 [video]https://youtu.be/ba2IRyq3dyE?t=44s[/video][/QUOTE] i always wondered where that avatar was from OT: they should bring [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba"]this[/URL] thing out again and drop it on isis

[QUOTE=Trixil;48797404]OT: they should bring [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba"]this[/URL] thing out again and do it on isis[/QUOTE] Well since our forces in the area have an order not to discriminate in terms of targets, might as well. Just pull Assad out of there, since he's apparently so important, and turn it all into one big mirror.

Russians launched another wave of airstrikes, and again, hit the FSA.