US Senate passes controversial cybersecurity bill CISA 74 to 21 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Xystus234;48998036]Wow what the fuck. Game over in the war against mass-surveillance.[/QUOTE] Anonymized data, regardless of how personal it may once have been, has no bearing on the general populace. It's just gives the government a more efficient way of effecting change on our civil liberties. Nothing we can do about it now, and even if we do, there will be a bill pretty much identical to it on the floor within a month. Rinse/repeat until we get too apathetic to try and stop the next one (exactly what is happening now). Also, don't get thrown by the FOIA bit. Companies don't have to comply with FOIA anyway. That's just the part of the legislation that was thrown in to make companies feel secure with giving up the data in the first place. You can still request the information from the government once they receive it, you just can't follow it back to the company that supplied it. [editline]27th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=FreakyMe;48998139] Are we standing on the brink of a modern enforcement of the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918"]Sedition Act of 1918[/URL]?[/QUOTE] No. No we are not. We're standing exactly where we were five days ago, just with a new and more annoying bill that doesn't actually affect you in tangible way. Stop being facetious.

[QUOTE=CoixNiro;48998068]It's a good thing. Thank CISA for every day you're not threatened or shot by some gun nut asswipe. Apart from that, if you have nothing to hide, no reason to be afraid.[/QUOTE] What kind of American would want to sacrifice their freedoms for corporate-sponsored "safety"?

[QUOTE=Boaraes;48998352]What kind of American would want to sacrifice their freedoms for corporate-sponsored "safety"?[/QUOTE] any that has a facebook account or uses google is already giving away nearly all information about themselves, those companies probably know more about most people than those people know about themselves.

[QUOTE=Boaraes;48998352]What kind of American would want to sacrifice their freedoms for corporate-sponsored "safety"?[/QUOTE] because state reps are old and dont use computers for pirating, they think it's like running drugs. This country is a massive pile of horseshit I wish there was a true 'free' land...

So we fought it, then apparantly last I heard we "beat it", then it just came when we weren't noticing and it won. So it won because they figured "let's not say shit, and sneak this behind the internet." Welp, good to know that after all the fighting they still win because they can just shut the window, close the drapes, and work onwards anyway without us. [editline]27th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=woolio1;48998065]WHOA WHOA WHOA! Hold on there. Companies that give away data would receive IMMUNITY from FOIAs and regulatory action? Dear God, we're absolutely boned. Anyone know how difficult it is to move to Sweden?[/QUOTE] We don't, we just get ready to take it up the ass and do nothing. They won by being quiet and doing nothing to get us to notice. We lose, time to just get ready to deal with it. [editline]27th October 2015[/editline] There's nothing more we can do aside some silly violent revolution against cranky old government folk to get them to listen to us. The Wild West couldn't stay wild forever, neither could the internet. I just don't see talking about it working.

[QUOTE=FreakyMe;48998139]Yeah. It feels like the plot of Mirror's Edge, honestly. All the pieces were falling into place while nobody was looking, and now the perfect structure for fascism has been built in a country that radically changes political leaders every 4 years. I feel like I might be one executive order away from having the officers show up at my door and telling me to come with them and not take anything. Who knows what the next president or the president after will believe is a true threat to national security? Anyone who is subversive to the "American Way?" Are we standing on the brink of a modern enforcement of the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918"]Sedition Act of 1918[/URL]?[/QUOTE] Are you for real?

Someone right now give me a realistic plan to stop this, since the article says it's not over until House of Representatives need to pass it too. Right now, can words and signs really stop this? It did before but they can still just try again when we aren't looking.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48998604]Someone right now give me a realistic plan to stop this, since the article says it's not over until House of Representatives need to pass it too. Right now, can words and signs really stop this? It did before but they can still just try again when we aren't looking.[/QUOTE] You just answered your own question. No. We cannot stop this bill or its equivalent. It will be passed eventually, and there's nothing we can realistically do to stop it. Refer to page 573, figure one, of this study for any further questions regarding the passage of bills: [URL]http://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf[/URL] EDIT: Video for lazier knowledge-gaining: [video]https://youtu.be/5tu32CCA_Ig[/video] To bad the video turns to shit after two minutes, but eh.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;48997664]Man why is everyone so against the internet? It's literally the best thing to happen to the human race since fire.[/QUOTE] Right there in your own question lies the true answer. The internet is the best thing for us as public citizens but it's the worst thing for a government that wants control over its people.

[QUOTE=apierce1289;48998629]Right there in your own question lies the true answer. The internet is the best thing for us as public citizens but it's the worst thing for a government that wants control over its people.[/QUOTE] What would you do about it that would change this then? Instead of saying how bad it is, how about one of you name a realistic plan to stop this.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48998644]What would you do about it that would change this then? Instead of saying how bad it is, how about one of you name a realistic plan to stop this.[/QUOTE] Think about it in terms of fundamentals. Do we, as a nation, care about our privacy? No. So will we actually care when that privacy is taken away? No. Will we say we do? Yes. Will that turn into political action? Maybe, but it'll largely be token action taken against the "big bad thing that's about to happen" and then we'll just go back to our everyday lethargy. So no. Nothing stops this. Give up hope of that ever happening, because it's a futile hope.

[QUOTE=valkery;48998671]Think about it in terms of fundamentals. Do we, as a nation, care about our privacy? No. So will we actually care when that privacy is taken away? No. Will we say we do? Yes. Will that turn into political action? Maybe, but it'll largely be token action taken against the "big bad thing that's about to happen" and then we'll just go back to our everyday lethargy. So no. Nothing stops this. Give up hope of that ever happening, because it's a futile hope.[/QUOTE] I'm down with that, probably not in that ultra cynical way, but I can't stop this, none of us can. Even if we bitch loud enough at the folks in Congress, it'll just be another case of biding their time until we aren't looking to try again. It would be an endless game. It's not Apathy, it's realism. We lost, might as well take it like champs rather than be sore losers. And by that I mean let's not go over the names of senators who said yay, because that would just be looking for scapegoats.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48997839]so is there a way i can willingly sell all my user data that is normally collected by corporations and governments so i can at least get some compensation?[/QUOTE] Move to Europe, then you can sue companies over this.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;48998689]Move to Europe, then you can sue companies over this.[/QUOTE] You don't think the other Governments of the world aren't looking at this with possibilities of their own CISA's?

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48998707]You don't think the other Governments of the world aren't looking at this with possibilities of their own CISA's?[/QUOTE] if you're in britian, canada, USA, australia, or.new zealand you already are being monitored what with the five eyes alliance and all. only a matter of time before the rest of the world catches up if they haven't already. we should stop trying to fight for privacy and start trying to fight for autonomy over our data so we can benefit from it instead of other people. give me an extension that monitors every website i go to and pays me like $25 a year, that'd be a way better deal than what we currently have

The reason this stuff keeps passing is because the people that want it or allow it to pass are an older generation that don't realise how the internet works, in an ideal world, people over the age of 50 shouldn't be allowed to vote on things related to the internet unless they take a competence course... They are messing things up for our generation because they are selfish and ignorant.

Shame the overall tone of this thread is "give up hope". I would have guessed a war of attrition with the internet would have lasted a bit longer.

[QUOTE=Don Knotts;48998762]Shame the overall tone of this thread is "give up hope". I would have guessed a war of attrition with the internet would have lasted a bit longer.[/QUOTE] We're not giving up hope we're facing reality. I ask you now, name a realistic plan to stop this while there's time before the bill hits House of Representatives? Name it to me right now, and this whole thing won't be a lost cause. And even if we do beat it again, this article shows that it'll just come back until they get their way.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48998644]What would you do about it that would change this then? Instead of saying how bad it is, how about one of you name a realistic plan to stop this.[/QUOTE] The only plan I can think of is voting for Bernie and hoping that inspires more politicians who aren't full of shit to start running (as well as making it easier for non-corrupt politicians to compete of finance reform goes through). Both of the Senators from my state (Oregon) voted nay, I'm pretty happy with the politicians that come out of Oregon in general.

[QUOTE=steelman111;48998757]The reason this stuff keeps passing is because the people that want it or allow it to pass are an older generation that don't realise how the internet works, in an ideal world, people over the age of 50 shouldn't be allowed to vote on things related to the internet unless they take a competence course... They are messing things up for our generation because they are selfish and ignorant.[/QUOTE] The reason this got through was because they learned to just be quiet and not let the internet know when they were gonna give CISA another go. [editline]28th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Helix Snake;48998782]The only plan I can think of is voting for Bernie and hoping that inspires more politicians who aren't full of shit to start running (as well as making it easier for non-corrupt politicians to compete of finance reform goes through). Both of the Senators from my state (Oregon) voted nay, I'm pretty happy with the politicians that come out of Oregon in general.[/QUOTE] You hope? Friend I don't know where your chips are, but I don't go all-in on a single person because of "hope". I go all in on results, and solid ground. I do think Bernie is still the best choice, but is he going to get in against a woman who could legally buy her way in with her personality on TV, and a powerful man child with a hairball on his head? I'm doubting it.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48998644]What would you do about it that would change this then? Instead of saying how bad it is, how about one of you name a realistic plan to stop this.[/QUOTE] Don't act all high and mighty when you don't even have an answer yourself. But it's clear the government is trying not to lose control over the public and this bill proves that they think they need more control to keep there eyes on us. We and anyone who feels that there needs to be change and a shift of power back to the people will be swiftly silenced by our own government because power hungry people can never get enough. It's an addiction that the government has and if you appose there agenda and want power shifted back to the people good luck with that. Eventually they're own power hungry addiction will spiral out of control and then something can be done once it's undeniable by everyone. Maybe not anytime soon and it may not be in our lifetime but it will happen once people get fed up with it. Either that or I've watched to many conspiracy theories shows on Netflix lol. Oh well time for some pop corn. Maybe the government will get caught in the act doing more shady stuff than has been in the headlines previously. Fun stuff to watch when shit gets leaked and they're dirty laundry gets aired out. Then they grapple for more control and the cycle continues. And here we are on the sidelines with little to do except watch this malignant cancer grow.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48998780]We're not giving up hope we're facing reality. I ask you now, name a realistic plan to stop this while there's time before the bill hits House of Representatives? Name it to me right now, and this whole thing won't be a lost cause. And even if we do beat it again, this article shows that it'll just come back until they get their way.[/QUOTE] In this case I'd say "facing reality" is giving up hope. This is one of the reasons I chose the words "war of attrition". The other reason is because traditionally, the internet finds out about these things when they're close to the end of the assembly line, uproar happens, the occasional google or wikipedia blackout and suddenly these things cannot be ignored and it starts over. The only way to stop it is to never stop betting on the internet.

I'll be the first to admit I couldn't come up with a plan against this if I tried. I'm only acting this way because there is no realistic way we can stop this now aside from bitching loud enough and hope they actually listen for once, which we all know isn't going to happen. I'd feel like a fucking idiot just prancing around with a picket sign yelling at brick walls to stop acting like brick walls.

How much influence can really be given with the House of Representatives? Like do emails and protests actually do something? Or is that more of a senate thing, and we missed our window there.

the best chance we had was when snowden released the bomb about prism. how the public reacted to that sealed the coffin on privacy, and began the process of it suffocating to desth. if we stop CISA today, tomorrow it will come back, then the next, then the next. the end of the illusion of privacy is inevitable, whether it comes from laws or just people choosing it. if we're going to follow transhumanist technologies, the death of privacy is a requirement. the best thing we can do is use the lack of privacy's unprecedented look at how people actually live to study and figure out even more about our psychology for the good of everyone and not only for marketers as they have been doing for the past several years [editline]27th October 2015[/editline] the people born today will be the first to see privacy as an archaic concept

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48998644]What would you do about it that would change this then? Instead of saying how bad it is, how about one of you name a realistic plan to stop this.[/QUOTE] Sedition. But seriously, the truth is that once they've gotten all the data on everyone, who's to say they're going to stop there? The truth is, if you post evidence that you've committed a crime, on Facebook, or even an anonymous forum, or maybe even IRC at this point, they'll now sift through this data, looking for anyone who's done anything wrong. What determines is if they have the will to prosecute for knowing this data. Obviously now they have the capacity to share this with any branch of the government, even law enforcement. Is the NSA or the Department of Homeland security going to create some universal database of everyone in the United States that's ever thrown a rock at a riot policeman? Or perhaps that's committed an assault crime? Without sounding like a conspiracy theorist, if indeed this is the case, then the most dangerous thing they can do is target people who are political enemies with this data. For instance, you got into a fight with a guy at a bar, someone snap-chatted your black eye. Or you sold pot to someone, and someone took a picture of it. They'll track your cellphone data or pictures, computer algorithms analyze it, determine there was a crime committed. Then they look up your personality profile to determine if you're a democrat, republican, etc. Then they decide to share this information with the police, and wham, you get arrested. The other guy who's aligned politically with the current government? They spare him. The next, more obvious step that they're going to do ... if indeed their intent is indeed that malicious, is indeed to take control of the media. So they can influence voters, extremists, etc. And if the case where a bill arrives which allows them to influence the media in any manner, you can bet your ass that something's really afoot. That's when you watch the fuck out.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48998866]the best chance we had was when snowden released the bomb about prism. how the public reacted to that sealed the coffin on privacy, and began the process of it suffocating to desth. if we stop CISA today, tomorrow it will come back, then the next, then the next. the end of the illusion of privacy is inevitable, whether it comes from laws or just people choosing it. if we're going to follow transhumanist technologies, the death of privacy is a requirement. the best thing we can do is use the lack of privacy's unprecedented look at how people actually live to study and figure out even more about our psychology for the good of everyone and not only for marketers as they have been doing for the past several years [editline]27th October 2015[/editline] the people born today will be the first to see privacy as an archaic concept[/QUOTE] I'm down with that. sounds most solid, and I could put my chips on it without much fear.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;48998594]Are you for real?[/QUOTE] I was specifically referencing this quote: [QUOTE]Once the city used to pulse with energy. Dirty and dangerous, but alive and wonderful. Now it's something else. The changes came slowly at first. Most didn't realize, or didn't care, and accepted them. They chose a comfortable life. Some didn't. And those who refused to conform were pushed to the sidelines, criminalized. [/QUOTE] and while I was being for real, I was not being wholly serious. I was speaking in hyperbolic specificity about my concern in reference to the fact that it is absolutely possible that such things could happen in America's not-to-distant future. Progress is not immutable.

[quote]EXCLUSION.—The term “cybersecurity threat” does not include any action that solely involves a violation of a consumer term of service or a consumer licensing agreement.[/quote] Phew.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48998780]We're not giving up hope we're facing reality. I ask you now, name a realistic plan to stop this while there's time before the bill hits House of Representatives? Name it to me right now, and this whole thing won't be a lost cause. And even if we do beat it again, this article shows that it'll just come back until they get their way.[/QUOTE] who's we?