Video appears to capture off-duty LAPD officer firing gun during confrontation with teens
124 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51861580]Again, the Facebook video makes the guy's handling of the situation look even worse. I recommend everyone watch it before commenting. It shows everything a lot more clearly, including the cop's attitude and the moment the shot's fired[/QUOTE]
even that video shows moments before the shot, within a few seconds lots of them ganged up around him. Off duty cop detaining somone for threatening to shoot them and atleast 5 guys about the surround him, I think its completely reasonable to fire JUST A [I]WARNING SHOT[/I] jeez
[editline]23rd February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Colossal_Dragon;51861738]The Off-Duty cop is stupid as hell, I'm pretty sure he's going to get jail time for almost shooting the kid he was holding on to.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure he didn't almost shoot the kid, he is well trained
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51861867]Off-duty officers do have the right to put you in your place, well shoot you dead actually, dunno about arresting.[/QUOTE]
I think this sentence has a little too much brevity.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51861867]You wouldn't last an hour in a brazilian favela if this shit was true.
Off-duty officers do have the right to put you in your place, well shoot you dead actually, dunno about arresting.[/QUOTE]
Brazillian favela =/= Californian suburb idk if you could build a bigger strawman. The officer was belligerent, irresponsible and he almost killed a 13 year old because of it.
His actions are inexcusable
[QUOTE=jamzzster;51861966]even that video shows moments before the shot, within a few seconds lots of them ganged up around him. Off duty cop detaining somone for threatening to shoot them and atleast 5 guys about the surround him, I think its completely reasonable to fire JUST A [I]WARNING SHOT[/I] jeez[/QUOTE]
It doesn't look intentional at all
[QUOTE=jamzzster;51861966]even that video shows moments before the shot, within a few seconds lots of them ganged up around him. Off duty cop detaining somone for threatening to shoot them and atleast 5 guys about the surround him, I think its completely reasonable to fire JUST A [I]WARNING SHOT[/I] jeez
[editline]23rd February 2017[/editline]
I'm sure he didn't almost shoot the kid, he is well trained[/QUOTE]
1. We don't do warning shots in this country. Ever.
2. Negligent discharges are easy if you're careless or under stress.
Couldn't he of just yelled at the kid to get off his lawn like most angry old people do?
I dunno, if you're on an off-duty cop's property and threaten to shoot him, I don't see why it's unreasonable that you get arrested.
[t]https://puu.sh/ufJ9j/4033d168e9.png[/t]
And now there's going to be organized cop ambushes soon. Great.
[QUOTE=GunFox;51861349]Was anyone hit? No. Was anyone hurt? No. Did it prevent escalation and stop people from being hurt? Yes. Was it the right move? Possibly. The crowd was clearly escalating rapidly. The teen threatened deadly force, which forced him to act. He could no longer allow the teen to leave because that teen is now a threat to him and his family. This placed the officer in a shitty situation.[/QUOTE]
When it comes to the police, a gun is a tool [I]of[/I] escalation, not a tool to [I]prevent[/I] escalation. If someone isn't cooperating, and the cop draws his pistol, the situation escalated from non-cooperation to threat to kill. A gun shouldn't be drawn/pointed without the full knowledge that whoever or whatever is in front of the barrel could die - it's not something to wave around to get people to listen to you, end of. The fact that police use guns as "de-escalation" tools is horrible - simply [I]pointing[/I] a gun is a threat of deadly force.
A gun should be an absolute last resort. It automatically escalates a situation, especially one where no other weapons are present. Someone else escalates first, threatening deadly force? Reasonable response.
Guns should not be used for compliance, they should be used for self-defense. That's why warning shots and brandishing a weapon are crimes.
Did you even watch the video Isak
The gun came out after he was assaulted. He didn't escalate shit. His firearm absolutely de-escalated the situation and prevented further attacks.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51862365]When it comes to the police, a gun is a tool [I]of[/I] escalation, not a tool to [I]prevent[/I] escalation. If someone isn't cooperating, and the cop draws his pistol, the situation escalated from non-cooperation to threat to kill. A gun shouldn't be drawn/pointed without the full knowledge that whoever or whatever is in front of the barrel could die - it's not something to wave around to get people to listen to you, end of. The fact that police use guns as "de-escalation" tools is horrible - simply [I]pointing[/I] a gun is a threat of deadly force.
A gun should be an absolute last resort. It automatically escalates a situation, especially one where no other weapons are present. Someone else escalates first, threatening deadly force? Reasonable response.
Guns should not be used for compliance, they should be used for self-defense. That's why warning shots and brandishing a weapon are crimes.[/QUOTE]
I'm just gonna stop you there. No, none of what you have said is accurate. If you would like, I can explain it, but only if you actually want to know. Otherwise I'm not wasting the time.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51862365]
Guns should not be used for compliance, they should be used for self-defense. That's why warning shots and brandishing a weapon are crimes.[/QUOTE]
He got tackled and a number of people were starting to close in on him.
[QUOTE=GunFox;51862439]I'm just gonna stop you there. No, none of what you have said is accurate. If you would like, I can explain it, but only if you actually want to know. Otherwise I'm not wasting the time.[/QUOTE]
I'm interested.
Were I in the officer's position, I would have just gone inside
it's good to see people stand up for the poor little kid, restores a little faith in humanity
To be fair, if some guy said that he was a cop (if this guy even did), wasn't in uniform, and started to drag one of my friends away, I'd be wary that he's an impersonator trying to kidnap my friend. This is why arrests should be done by on-duty officers in uniform. Some kid almost got shot and killed because he walked on this guy's lawn, all due to miscommunication and gross misunderstanding.
I'm seeing a bunch of middle schoolers walking through the suburbs after getting off of school.
You know what? Who the fuck cares if that kid said I'm gonna shoot you. He's a fucking kid. Kids say stupid shit to act tough all the time. Are we going to arrest every kid that gets in a fight at school under assault charges? Does anyone honestly believe that some stupid comment made by a kid is indicative of a dangerous criminal? You know what he should have done? Followed the kid to his parents who were probably a couple of blocks away and told them what happened. Instead of pulling a gun to "scare off a dangerous mob" of middle schoolers like a fucking psycho.
[QUOTE=billibobc;51861523]
Its pretty clear that the kid isnt much of a threat or on the dudes property. Not to mention the fact that as an off duty officer he has no right to detain a person anyway.[/QUOTE]
You have no idea what you're talking about so stop.
Off duty police officers are still police officers and they still hold the power of arrest in the jurisdiction it was delegated to them. They're not expected to arrest people but they still can especially if someone is threatening them.
[editline]23rd February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51862707]I'm seeing a bunch of middle schoolers walking through the suburbs after getting off of school.
You know what? Who the fuck cares if that kid said I'm gonna shoot you. He's a fucking kid. Kids say stupid shit to act tough all the time. Are we going to arrest every kid that gets in a fight under assault charges? Does anyone honestly believe that some stupid comment made by a kid is indicative of a dangerous criminal? You know what he should have done? Followed the kid to his parents who were probably a couple of blocks away and told them what happened. Instead of pulling a gun to "scare off a dangerous mob" of middle schoolers like a fucking psycho.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I guess next time he should let himself be physically assaulted, the assault wouldn't be real because the people attacking him aren't above an arbitrary age limit
[QUOTE=Bazsil;51862719]
Yeah I guess next time he should let himself be physically assaulted, the assault wouldn't be real because the people attacking him aren't above an arbitrary age limit[/QUOTE]
I can see you put some thought into this comment. And what you said would make sense if it weren't for the fact that police use their common sense judgement all of the time. A random car with registration that's a week out of date isn't worth pulling over even though THEYRE BREAKING THE LAW!!!
Some random ass middle schoolers that step in your lawn (hint: middle schoolers do this everywhere, rich/poor/black/white) and say things to act like hot shit(another hint: pretty much all of them) aren't worth grabbing by the shirt, making a scene over, and pulling out your gun.
[QUOTE=Bazsil;51862719]
Yeah I guess next time he should let himself be physically assaulted, the assault wouldn't be real because the people attacking him aren't above an arbitrary age limit[/QUOTE]
but he was the one that escalated the conflict in the first place
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;51862761]but he was the one that escalated the conflict in the first place[/QUOTE]
No but you see if he didn't grab the kid by the shirt the suburban middle schooler might have gone home to his parents lockbox in the closet and ACTUALLY grabbed a gun and MURDERED the police officer! The officer was just doing the sensible thing that any suburbanite would do to their neighbors 13 year old child!
I fail to see the need to place the kid under arrest immediately.
Just let him go and find him later at his home or school rather than wave a gun around and shoot needlessly...
I don't get why that old man didn't do anything, and I don't get why all these teenagers are so snotty and aggressive.
[QUOTE=GunFox;51861349]Was anyone hit? No. Was anyone hurt? No. Did it prevent escalation and stop people from being hurt? Yes. Was it the right move? Possibly. The crowd was clearly escalating rapidly. The teen threatened deadly force, which forced him to act. He could no longer allow the teen to leave because that teen is now a threat to him and his family. This placed the officer in a shitty situation.[/QUOTE]
assuming no property was damaged, no one was injured, why was there such an urgent need to detain the boy?
situation could have been avoided by simply letting the boy go
[QUOTE=GunFox;51862439]I'm just gonna stop you there. No, none of what you have said is accurate. If you would like, I can explain it, but only if you actually want to know. Otherwise I'm not wasting the time.[/QUOTE]
This is what I've read and heard from gun hobbyists and gun rights activists on this forum. Treat a gun with respect, assume anything you point it at could die, so on. I think that's fair and I think it's a good way to treat a dangerous tool like a gun. There's arguments to be made about whether cops should be able to use their weapons for coercion or compliance, and I can accept plenty of those, because their job necessitates that sometimes.
But this cop [I]wasn't on the job[/I]. He wasn't working. He [I]should[/I] be no different than any civilian. There are laws in place against brandishing and warning shots - he broke them. He assaulted someone under pretense of arresting him for... what? verbal assault? who cares?
I should've specified more that my problem with this leaned more towards an off-duty cop thinking he had legal authority to make that arrest, when (at least in my opinion) he should be subject to the same laws as any other civilian. If he made a citizen's arrest and this was a felony, different case - but swap out the off-duty cop with anyone else, and it's clear-cut assault, brandishing, negligent use of a firearm, all sorts of shit. I probably agree with you that police should be allowed to use guns for compliance purposes, even though I think that guns are regularly used in totally unnecessary situations. But I'm still firmly of the belief that the only reason you should point a gun at someone is self-defense - not because they're walking away from you, not because they're running, not because you want to fire warning shots. There's a little more leeway for the police (like with speed limits), but still heavily overused when less excessive and dangerous tactics could be used.
Should've handled it better but in a situation like that I can believe that the guy felt threatened by having a crowd around him, all it takes is a few guys out of an angry mob to cause some serious brain damage or hell, just one kid carrying a gun (you don't just make threats to shoot someone in somewhere like LA) But yeah, just a shitshow here.
I can't help but wonder how this is going to escalating existing tensions with the police though, especially not with people doing dumb shit like this:
[QUOTE=Boaraes;51862313]I dunno, if you're on an off-duty cop's property and threaten to shoot him, I don't see why it's unreasonable that you get arrested.
[t]https://puu.sh/ufJ9j/4033d168e9.png[/t]
And now there's going to be organized cop ambushes soon. Great.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=OvB;51861394]That shot had to be an accidental discharge. Intentionally shooting a gun in that situation would be absolutely reakless. Lose job and go to jail reakless.[/QUOTE]
Why are warning shots in america so frowned upon? Most european police forces use them. The situation he got into was stupid, but as you can see in the video, it did work?
[QUOTE=Niklas;51862935]Why are warning shots in america so frowned upon? Most european police forces use them. The siutuation he got into was stupid, but as you can see in the video, it did work?[/QUOTE]
Cause the bullet has to go somewhere.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51862966]Cause the bullet has to go somewhere.[/QUOTE]
Just catch it.
[QUOTE=Niklas;51862935]Why are warning shots in america so frowned upon? Most european police forces use them. The siutuation he got into was stupid, but as you can see in the video, it did work?[/QUOTE]
"He might have accidentally discharged his gun but the people dispersed so it's fine!"
And if the 13 year old boy got shot would you still defend this? Or any of the other kids?
[QUOTE=Niklas;51862935]Why are warning shots in america so frowned upon? Most european police forces use them. The siutuation he got into was stupid, but as you can see in the video, it did work?[/QUOTE]
A lot of people can and do get injured and killed by a falling bullet, never mind accidentally hitting somebody in the first place by firing into the air near a building. Its unlikely but because it can happen it's not a good idea to do such things in the first place.
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