Video appears to capture off-duty LAPD officer firing gun during confrontation with teens
124 replies, posted
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51862966]Cause the bullet has to go somewhere.[/QUOTE]
Not a problem if you shoot the dirt which he probably did, but it does look like an accidental discharge and he could've easily hit that kid instead.
Really he should've called the actual police instead of starting some dumb commotion over some verbal threats.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51862966]Cause the bullet has to go somewhere.[/QUOTE]
Obviously, but you can fire a warning shot without shooting straight in the air or a high risk of richochets. If anything, looking at videos online of US police officers mag dumping unarmed suspects, you would have a higher risk of hurting bystanders that way.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51863023]"He might have accidentally discharged his gun but the people dispersed so it's fine!"
[/QUOTE]
Did I say this? OvB said that an intentional discharge in that situation should get the officer jailed, don't put words in my mouth. My point was, if he intentionally fired a warning shot, he successfully defused the situation. If it was accidental the kids were lucky.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51863023]
And if the 13 year old boy got shot would you still defend this? Or any of the other kids?
[/QUOTE]
Straw man some more?
[QUOTE=angelangel;51862842]assuming no property was damaged, no one was injured, why was there such an urgent need to detain the boy?
situation could have been avoided by simply letting the boy go[/QUOTE]
Lol yeah just let someone get away with verbal death threats against a police officer, that'll set a good precedent for everyone involved
[QUOTE=dillspears;51861407]An off duty cop tells teens to get off his property. [B][U]Uppity shithead teen[/U][/B] threatens to shoot him. Cop rightfully doesn't let that threat fly.[/QUOTE]
Careful.
[QUOTE=Niklas;51863357]Obviously, but [B]you can fire a warning shot[/B] without shooting straight in the air or a high risk of richochets. If anything, looking at videos online of US police officers mag dumping unarmed suspects, you would have a higher risk of hurting bystanders that way.[/QUOTE]
You can't, though. Warning shots are illegal:
[I]"Warning shots are absolutely not allowed in The United States. Firing a gun in a public place is a crime, and the only thing which can make it legal is a reasonable belief in the necessity of using that gun to stop an immediate, unlawful, deadly threat. If you (or the officer) have time to fire warning shots, then that proves that the threat either wasn't immediate or wasn't a “deadly force” threat, or both."
[/I] [url]https://www.quora.com/Do-police-fire-warning-shots[/url]
[QUOTE=Talvy;51863589]You can't, though. Warning shots are illegal[/QUOTE]
I'm aware of this, though I'm convinced that they shouldn't be illegal. As I said, in the US they are frowned upon, but they are used rather frequently in some european police forces. About half of rounds fired by german police are warning shots (shoot-to-wound is also often used successfully, even though FP loves to make jokes about this). Every time you fire a round you risk hurting bystanders, but the idea that you should only shoot-to-kill seems idiotic to me. It's not like rounds that are fired directly at a suspect don't have an equally high risk of hitting the pavement and richocheting. Ironically US forces used warning shots in iraq, but they are unlawful at home?
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country[/url]
[QUOTE=billibobc;51861388]An off duty cop unlawfully restrains a child then pulls out a gun when his friends try to help him? Funny thing is people will somehow defend this asshole.[/QUOTE]
When they do it'll very closely resemble using headlines like "Video appears to capture...", as though we're supposed to be suspicious out-of-hand because this audio-visual recording of events impugns the honor and competence of one of our selfless heroes maintaining the thin blue line between us sheep and vicious brown-skinned 13-year-olds.
[QUOTE=Talvy;51863589]You can't, though. Warning shots are illegal:
[I]"Warning shots are absolutely not allowed in The United States. Firing a gun in a public place is a crime, and the only thing which can make it legal is a reasonable belief in the necessity of using that gun to stop an immediate, unlawful, deadly threat. If you (or the officer) have time to fire warning shots, then that proves that the threat either wasn't immediate or wasn't a “deadly force” threat, or both."
[/I] [url]https://www.quora.com/Do-police-fire-warning-shots[/url][/QUOTE]
The problem with warning shots in this country is that overzealous prosecutors made the legal precedent that if you have enough time to fire a warning shot, then it automatically means you weren't threatened enough to warrant the use of a firearm in the first place no matter what the situation, regardless of if your actions end up preventing loss of life (because our legal system is fucking retarded).
Going back to the incident in question, none of this would have ever held up in court as self defense if the person wasn't a cop.
In the United States you do not shoot a gun in public unless you intend to kill something. In the video you can see how close that gun was to the kid. If it was a warning shot it was an extremely dangerous one. Still Illegal. There's no such thing as a warning shot or shooting them in a less lethal spot, etc. You pull your gun on someone, you do so with the intent to drop them.
[editline]23rd February 2017[/editline]
Europeans always give Americans shit for being irresponsible/crazy about guns but then jump to the defense of an American clearly being irresponsible with a gun. I'm shocked so many people are okay with firing a gun in close proximity to a child.
[QUOTE=OvB;51864450] I'm shocked so many people are okay with firing a gun in close proximity to a child.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure the parents no longer feel comfortable with their kids walking by the house of some nutjob cop willing to pull out and fire a gun around a bunch of middle school kids.
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;51864337]i choose to believe it was a warning shot aimed at the dirt.
justified, too, they were all getting closer to him and he got punched, i can see why he pulled out the gun.[/QUOTE]
"Warning shot aimed at the dirt" lol, people will do anything to justify the use of force.
Here's what I think. The officer shouldn't have escalated the situation to this level in the first place. If he had called for in-uniform officers that were actually on duty to handle the situation instead of taking things into his own hands, he wouldn't have been in any danger. As far as I see it, the kids had every right to be suspicious of a man claiming to be a cop trying to drag their friend away (the kids said they called the police, so it's apparent that they weren't sure of his guys legitimacy). If this had happened to me, my "stranger-danger" instincts ingrained from a decade of public schooling in the suburbs would have kicked in just like it did for these kids.
There was absolutely zero reason for a trespassing incident to almost result in the death of a 13 year old kid. Being a police officer means that you're a professional, you should be trained in handling these situations and in de-escalating them. The officer did a poor job in that respect.
[QUOTE=GunFox;51861349]Was anyone hit? No. Was anyone hurt? No. Did it prevent escalation and stop people from being hurt? Yes. Was it the right move? Possibly. The crowd was clearly escalating rapidly. The teen threatened deadly force, which forced him to act. He could no longer allow the teen to leave because that teen is now a threat to him and his family. This placed the officer in a shitty situation.[/QUOTE]
I think he did the right thing and everything he did was justified up until the shot was fired. I think it was a negligent discharge and he didn't do it intentionally, though. That's the problem with guns like Glocks. 4 and a half pounds of pull on the trigger is all it takes to set it off. Easy to do in a struggle, but even if he did fire a round into the dirt on purpose, that can still be argued as justified considering the crowd and how he was already hit a couple times
Cops were on their way. He didn't do anything to escalate the situation further. He was knocked over by one kid with another who punched him in the face and was going for another swing when the gun came out. All that's on the up and up
[QUOTE=OvB;51864450]In the United States you do not shoot a gun in public unless you intend to kill something. In the video you can see how close that gun was to the kid. If it was a warning shot it was an extremely dangerous one. Still Illegal. There's no such thing as a warning shot or shooting them in a less lethal spot, etc. You pull your gun on someone, you do so with the intent to drop them.
[editline]23rd February 2017[/editline]
Europeans always give Americans shit for being irresponsible/crazy about guns but then jump to the defense of an American clearly being irresponsible with a gun. I'm shocked so many people are okay with firing a gun in close proximity to a child.[/QUOTE]
If this happened in Sweden the kids would be called rioters and everyone would be on the cop's side.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;51862840]I don't get why that old man didn't do anything, and I don't get why all these teenagers are so snotty and aggressive.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if they came from some boys only private school or something
[QUOTE=Swebonny;51864816]If this happened in Sweden the kids would be called rioters and everyone would be on the cop's side.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure most cops in Sweden don't have the same colorful history as the LAPD though. Also it was a pretty reckless move to attempt to detain someone in front of an angry mob without backup on the scene, regardless of whether or not he was justified in doing so.
So many of you are bleeding hearts. The kid was on the dude's property.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51861370]What? Where did the teen threaten deadly force?[/QUOTE]
Apparent that you don't read the article before posting.
[QUOTE=billibobc;51861388]An off duty cop unlawfully restrains a child then pulls out a gun when his friends try to help him? Funny thing is people will somehow defend this asshole.[/QUOTE]
when you tell a on-duty or off-duty cop you're going to shot them/use deadly force against them, in my home town Tampa, you'd get 2 to the head for that. The "child" stopped being a child when he threatened the cop.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51861408]The kid repeats throughout the video that he said "sue you" not "shoot you". We can't hear the first time he says it, though[/QUOTE]
Really? C'mon dude, get your head outta your ass. What 13 yr old says "I'll sue you" ? The kid isn't some 45 yr old con artists who tripped on some pee in the restroom of Walmart.
He probably thought he was being cool, and got a quick reality check.
The cop had all the rights to pull his gun, it was on his land, he felt threatened, and he was outnumbered. Doesn't matter if they were kids or not, that doesn't mean they can't cause harm.
As far as firing the gun, warning shots are dumb. A gun is enough warning, but I get it, he wanted it to be clear he wouldn't let some teens run all over him.
Man it looks like the anaheim KKK is back at it again... looks like i gotta grab the cone mask...
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;51865477]Really? C'mon dude, get your head outta your ass. What 13 yr old says "I'll sue you" ? The kid isn't some 45 yr old con artists who tripped on some pee in the restroom of Walmart.
He probably thought he was being cool, and got a quick reality check.
The cop had all the rights to pull his gun, it was on his land, he felt threatened, and he was outnumbered. Doesn't matter if they were kids or not, that doesn't mean they can't cause harm.
As far as firing the gun, warning shots are dumb. A gun is enough warning, but I get it, he wanted it to be clear he wouldn't let some teens run all over him.[/QUOTE]
Take a fucking chill pill, christ. I described exactly what happened. I didn't say "the kid said 'sue you', I'm 100% sure of this". It's ironic that you're actually accusing me of not reading things in this post
Also, why the fuck do you have to be a 45 year old con artist to shout you're going to sue somebody? Are you really going to base the crux of your argument on such shitty logic?
[editline]23rd February 2017[/editline]
Also
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;51865477]As far as firing the gun, warning shots are dumb. A gun is enough warning, but I get it, he wanted it to be clear he wouldn't let some teens run all over him.[/QUOTE]
You clearly didn't watch the video. It wasn't intentional at all. He fires it just as he puts his hands over the hedge to pull the kid across.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;51865477]So many of you are bleeding hearts. The kid was on the dude's property.
Apparent that you don't read the article before posting.
when you tell a on-duty or off-duty cop you're going to shot them/use deadly force against them, in my home town Tampa, you'd get 2 to the head for that. The "child" stopped being a child when he threatened the cop.
Really? C'mon dude, get your head outta your ass. What 13 yr old says "I'll sue you" ? The kid isn't some 45 yr old con artists who tripped on some pee in the restroom of Walmart.
He probably thought he was being cool, and got a quick reality check.
The cop had all the rights to pull his gun, it was on his land, he felt threatened, and he was outnumbered. Doesn't matter if they were kids or not, that doesn't mean they can't cause harm.
As far as firing the gun, warning shots are dumb. A gun is enough warning, but I get it, he wanted it to be clear he wouldn't let some teens run all over him.[/QUOTE]
I don't think someone that feels threatened by a group of 13 year olds should be a police officer tbh.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51865845]I don't think someone that feels threatened by a group of 13 year olds should be a police officer tbh.[/QUOTE]
You underestimate the harm a dozen 13 year olds can cause to a human body. Assuming all of them are 13.
I mean just one of them managed to knock him off his feet.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51865845]I don't think someone that feels threatened by a group of 13 year olds should be a police officer tbh.[/QUOTE]
Some of them are almost equal in height and he was being swarmed. There were at least, what, at least ten of them, I think? If one of them had started a fight with him, they [B]all[/B] would have jumped in.
Kids like that wouldn't know when to stop, either. He'd probably have a pretty good chance of getting brain damage or worse.
I think you are seriously underestimating the harm they can do. Like Aaron said, even just one of them was enough to get him off of his feet.
In that situation, where he is on the ground and has six wannabe thugs on him, what is he going to do? There's nothing he would be able to do.
I get why he pulled the gun and don't blame him - he was in a very bad situation (although it was one he put himself in) and the way things were going, it was going to be a pretty bad outcome for him.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51863458]Lol yeah just let someone get away with verbal death threats against a police officer, that'll set a good precedent for everyone involved[/QUOTE]
You're missing the point, the situation was not safe to do so. The officer let the situation control him and spiral out of control.
Safety comes first before setting 'good precedents'.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51862849]This is what I've read and heard from gun hobbyists and gun rights activists on this forum. Treat a gun with respect, assume anything you point it at could die, so on. I think that's fair and I think it's a good way to treat a dangerous tool like a gun. There's arguments to be made about whether cops should be able to use their weapons for coercion or compliance, and I can accept plenty of those, because their job necessitates that sometimes.[/QUOTE]
GunFox is a cop irl. I'm going to assume he knows what he's talking about.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51869826]GunFox is a cop irl. I'm going to assume he knows what he's talking about.[/QUOTE]
It sure would help if he actually explained it though.
[QUOTE=BazzBerry;51866136]
In that situation, where he is on the ground and has six wannabe thugs on him, what is he going to do? There's nothing he would be able to do.[/QUOTE]
Yeah those 13 year old "thugs" with their khakis, backpacks, and walking across people's yards.
He escalated the situation and acted like a jackass rather than deal with it like any other adult. The clueless 13 year olds responded to an adult grabbing their friend, saying he wasn't going to let go, and being an asshat.
They clearly didn't think he was a cop, which means he didn't give a shit about handling this correctly. He just did the bare minimum to technically not do anything wrong and get away with it.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51862554]Were I in the officer's position, I would have just gone inside[/QUOTE]
kind of a naive mindset when there are a bunch of threatening people outside who are closing in on you
[editline]25th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51862707]I'm seeing a bunch of middle schoolers walking through the suburbs after getting off of school.
You know what? Who the fuck cares if that kid said I'm gonna shoot you. He's a fucking kid. Kids say stupid shit to act tough all the time. Are we going to arrest every kid that gets in a fight at school under assault charges? Does anyone honestly believe that some stupid comment made by a kid is indicative of a dangerous criminal? You know what he should have done? Followed the kid to his parents who were probably a couple of blocks away and told them what happened. Instead of pulling a gun to "scare off a dangerous mob" of middle schoolers like a fucking psycho.[/QUOTE]
just because you're a kid you should be given free reign to threaten other people with shooting them?
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51870216]
just because you're a kid you should be given free reign to threaten other people with shooting them?[/QUOTE]
Does anyone honestly believe that kid is a threat to anything other than a lawn?
If someone threatens that they're going to shoot somebody, don't cops usually draw their gun? If the kid was actually any threat and the cop had his gun, why didn't he draw it?
Maybe the cop didn't take the kid seriously because he's 13?
Maybe instead of grabbing his gun on his way out the door to confront middle schoolers, he could have grabbed his badge instead maybe? Seems like it would scare any kid into not going on your lawn again if they thought they'd actually get in trouble?
[QUOTE=Boaraes;51862313]I dunno, if you're on an off-duty cop's property and threaten to shoot him, I don't see why it's unreasonable that you get arrested.
[t]https://puu.sh/ufJ9j/4033d168e9.png[/t]
And now there's going to be organized cop ambushes soon. Great.[/QUOTE]
Oh look, free beanbag training for the police :v:
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51870400]Does anyone honestly believe that kid is a threat to anything other than a lawn?
If someone threatens that they're going to shoot somebody, don't cops usually draw their gun? If the kid was actually any threat and the cop had his gun, why didn't he draw it?
Maybe the cop didn't take the kid seriously because he's 13?
Maybe instead of grabbing his gun on his way out the door to confront middle schoolers, he could have grabbed his badge instead maybe? Seems like it would scare any kid into not going on your lawn again if they thought they'd actually get in trouble?[/QUOTE]
Sorry but when someone threatens you, you have to react as if the threat is real and current, doing otherwise is stupid. Just because you cannot see a weapon on the person does not mean they don't have one.
[QUOTE=angelangel;51867060]You're missing the point, the situation was not safe to do so. The officer let the situation control him and spiral out of control.[/quote]
He clearly did not let the situation control him because he sought to put a stop to it and commit to his functions and duties as a police officer.
[QUOTE=angelangel;51867060]Safety comes first before setting 'good precedents'.[/QUOTE]
The upholding of the law comes first.
[editline]24th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rubs10;51869927]Yeah those 13 year old "thugs" with their khakis, backpacks, and walking across people's yards.
He escalated the situation and acted like a jackass rather than deal with it like any other adult. The clueless 13 year olds responded to an adult grabbing their friend, saying he wasn't going to let go, and being an asshat.
They clearly didn't think he was a cop, which means he didn't give a shit about handling this correctly. He just did the bare minimum to technically not do anything wrong and get away with it.[/QUOTE]
You really cannot conclude on the legitimacy of a threat simply because a 13 year old said them.
If he says he'll shoot someone, then he must be taken seriously, lest you take the risk of the threat realizing - if you live in a country that allows the ownership of guns so easily, the risk of this threat being real is even higher.
Being 13 won't magically make him shoot less deadly bullets. A death threat is a death threat.
Then again you seem to be hella good at drawing super-accurate conclusions based on absolutely fuck-all so maybe you're just extra good at this.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51861276][url]http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-anaheim-20170221-story.html[/url]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoSkCGrRAQg[/media][/QUOTE]
I can't believe the way this guy whips out his gun like some kind of action movie cowboy gunslinger whilst maintaining this pathetic "I'm not letting go until you let go!" grip on a fucking kid.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.