Oil may begin flowing through the Dakota Access Pipeline as soon as next week - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51931791]So we need to build more oil infrastructure? Also answer the posts above[/QUOTE] Infrastructure cannot be moved around easily. It's not very feasible to repurpose old infrastructure and move it somewhere else. You need to build more oil infrastructure in places where new oil -- or more new oil -- has been found and is being processed. [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;51931800]so why are a lot of wells currently shut down if we need more? why isn't this pipeline projected to make a profit?[/QUOTE] Again, you're looking at aggregate data and applying it to localities. The wells that shut down are shut down because they're not worth running [b]in that area[/b] (or have just run out of oil) Why isn't it projected to make a profit? Maybe because people obstructed its development for months, caused a huge amount in property damage, and incurred numerous legal expenses for the company? Maybe that's part of it? Perhaps?

[QUOTE=geel9;51931804]Again, you're looking at aggregate data and applying it to localities. The wells that shut down are shut down because they're not worth running [b]in that area[/b] (or have just run out of oil)[/quote] except new wells are not established in places where it's cheap - that's already gone. new wells are only established once prices rise and previously unprofitable places are now economical so given that oil prices are so low, why build more pipelines and wells? even in most of these "local areas" aren't even that profitable at these prices [quote]Why isn't it projected to make a profit? Maybe because people obstructed its development for months, caused a huge amount in property damage, and incurred numerous legal expenses for the company? Maybe that's part of it? Perhaps?[/QUOTE] well then people ought to keep on doing it so that it remains unprofitable then. bankrupting them would be the best case scenario and it would teach other companies a lesson

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51931778]the february revolution has nothing to do with the rise of the soviet union the united states gained its independence pretty much using the methods you described what makes them wrong when they have real results? why does that matter when US oil production is already at the highest it's been in decades? what the fuck do you need more for?[/QUOTE] The US gained its independence by rioting and fighting, but Im failing to see how overthrowing a tyrannical government is akin to stopping an oil pipeline illegally? [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=thelurker1234;51931803]sure[/QUOTE] Thanks for the non answer. Clearly Im talking about political revolutions when we're discussing an oil pipeline.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51931910]The US gained its independence by rioting and fighting, but Im failing to see how overthrowing a tyrannical government is akin to stopping an oil pipeline illegally?[/QUOTE] well they're both stopping bad things

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51931910]The US gained its independence by [B]rioting and fighting[/B], but Im failing to see how overthrowing a tyrannical government is akin to stopping an oil pipeline [B]illegally[/B]?[/QUOTE] "tyrannical." Either cognitive dissonance or you don't think you have a completely subjective view on history. It wasn't cut and dry then either, you might have even had the joy of being tarred and feathered because you insisted that the rioters were out of their mind.

The cost of phasing out oil is dwarfed by the cost of unabated climate change.

So what if pipelines burst and destroy the environment? Money is important! [i]Don't you want money?[/i]

[QUOTE=New Cidem;51932795]So what if pipelines burst and destroy the environment? Money is important! [i]Don't you want money?[/i][/QUOTE] Job creation, someone's gotta clean up all that oil after all.

The pipeline is a threat to the land of Sioux Nation and the protesters have a moral obligation to stand against it.

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;51932900]The pipeline is a threat to the land of Sioux Nation and the protesters have a moral obligation to stand against it.[/QUOTE] The protestors are beyond any argument of morality in my eyes. For the most part, any of them that were at the camps can be summed up as the scum of the earth.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51932973]The protestors are beyond any argument of morality in my eyes. For the most part, any of them that were at the camps can be summed up as the scum of the earth.[/QUOTE] The oil executives bribing politicians and destroying the environment are the scum of the earth, not the common people standing against them.

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;51933046]The oil executives bribing politicians and destroying the environment are the scum of the earth, not the common people standing against them.[/QUOTE] The common "people" went around attacking farmers, policemen/national guardsmen and their families, threatened to desecrate several veterans memorials here in Bismarck, [url=http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/butchered-and-missing-livestock-reported-near-dakota-access-pipeline-protest/article_0647ac10-b7f9-519a-9697-196ed093fa23.html]are responsible for[/url] the [url=http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/north-dakota-bison-ranchers-come-to-denver-to-replenish-herd-dimished-after-pipeline-protest]deaths[/url] of roughly forty cattle(which they stole), attempted to firebomb a farmer's home because he wouldn't let them go through his land, [url=https://gf.nd.gov/news/1407]poached several deer illegally[/url]. They also killed several bison belonging to a local rancher, and ran off into the distance screaming mini macarooni while stating they intend to sell the hides and not compensate the rancher of his losses. This list goes on forever, but the reality is that the Mini Macaroonites from the House of Sacred Dog Kennel had numerous offerings from the state of North Dakota to kindly fuck-off, and each time they rejected it while continuing to break several of our states laws, and attack the people of our state.

[QUOTE=Sableye;51930395]this seems entirely rushed almost like theyre compromising safety for a political statement... i still dont think this sets a good prescident for the future, what with the increadibly scummy tactics they used such as using several of thousand short distance pipeline permits to sidestep a full pipeline review process. also [B]the right framing this as a war against liberal hippy enviromentalism [/B] like theyre already at it again doing this in louisiana through protected swamps but suddenly its in deeply conservative territory and people there are suddenly worried about it even as they jeered the dakota protestors[/QUOTE] I love how environmentalism is a fucking partisan issue in this country. Seems like facts are also becoming partisan these days as well. [I]“Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.” – Edward Wilson[/I] [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51932973]The protestors are beyond any argument of morality in my eyes. For the most part, any of them that were at the camps can be summed up as the scum of the earth.[/QUOTE] Yeah? The 2000 veterans (to include OIF OEF vets) who showed up were 'scum of the Earth' too? Go fuck yourself, edgelord. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Pascall))[/highlight]

The same veterans responsible for attempting to escalate an already tense situation, responsible for bringing amphetamine use into the camp, and who'd heavy arm anyone who wanted to leave the camp out of fear of the winter cold. After September, the camp's legitimate holdings and problems were pretty much drown out by people starting shit for no reason.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51932973]The protestors are beyond any argument of morality in my eyes. For the most part, any of them that were at the camps can be summed up as the scum of the earth.[/QUOTE] Oh [I]noooooo[/I], not people who are concerned with the wellbeing of the planet! How dare those scum stop my capitalist splurge at the expense of the local wildlife! Calling the protesters "the scum of the earth" is a super fucking stupid thing to say dude. Oh my, they inconvenienced a construction project that has been controversial since day one, what [I]scumbags[/I] they must be. It's not like that pipeline is another testament to the fossil fuel industry refusing to move the fuck out of the way. We've already passed the point of no return, but that doesn't mean we should just give up and continue making oil and shit cheaper, otherwise alternatives will just never gain traction. What the hell could cause someone to become so disconnected with reality that people protesting a pipeline are "scum of the earth"?

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51929928]The day the protestors got a boot in the ass, was a pretty good day. It was like watching the entire community having a weight lifted off it's shoulders.[/QUOTE] Jesus, why am I not surprised that you see protestors, just people trying to express their opinions, as a fucking burden on society? [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51932973]The protestors are beyond any argument of morality in my eyes. For the most part, any of them that were at the camps can be summed up as the scum of the earth.[/QUOTE] Holy fucking shit dude, are you actually being serious right now? The delusions have been getting even worse... [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51933203]The common "people" went around attacking farmers, policemen/national guardsmen and their families, threatened to desecrate several veterans memorials here in Bismarck, [url=http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/butchered-and-missing-livestock-reported-near-dakota-access-pipeline-protest/article_0647ac10-b7f9-519a-9697-196ed093fa23.html]are responsible for[/url] the [url=http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/north-dakota-bison-ranchers-come-to-denver-to-replenish-herd-dimished-after-pipeline-protest]deaths[/url] of roughly forty cattle(which they stole), attempted to firebomb a farmer's home because he wouldn't let them go through his land, [url=https://gf.nd.gov/news/1407]poached several deer illegally[/url]. They also killed several bison belonging to a local rancher, and ran off into the distance screaming mini macarooni while stating they intend to sell the hides and not compensate the rancher of his losses. This list goes on forever, but the reality is that the Mini Macaroonites from the House of Sacred Dog Kennel had numerous offerings from the state of North Dakota to kindly fuck-off, and each time they rejected it while continuing to break several of our states laws, and attack the people of our state.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile, police and the national guard commited their own set of atrocities, such as using high pressure water cannons that not only can completely remove digits from people's hands and otherwise heavily damage people internally, but also used them in the fucking cold of the dead winter, or evicting organize, well planned camps of people who had all the necessary resources to survive out into the harsh cold of the winter, where they don't have those supplies, they don't have that organization or planning, or how about the few times when the company sent a few intruders into the camp armed to try and start shit, only to have those intruders be talked down and peacibly disarmed, and then those who talked them down have arrests sent out for their "assault" of the man, or how about just in general the complete suppression of an entire group of people's first amendment rights, arguable the most important ones? The list goes on and fucking on, this being from and organized governmental group that all speak for each other and meanwhile, you have what, a handful of admittedly tragic cases that are commited by idiots that barely have a connection to the main cause, that have had absolutely no endorsement from the main cause? The mental gymnastics you're going through here Joe just to justify your boner that the North Dakotan government is absolutely astounding... [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51933296]The same veterans responsible for attempting to escalate an already tense situation, responsible for bringing amphetamine use into the camp, and who'd heavy arm anyone who wanted to leave the camp out of fear of the winter cold. After September, the camp's legitimate holdings and problems were pretty much drown out by people starting shit for no reason.[/QUOTE] Veterans bringing in Amphetamines? What in the absolute fuck are you talking about dude? There were a handful of people who were a part of the camp who did amphetamines on the side who brought them in, not the fucking veterans, and it was never a particularly widespread thing at the camp. They're far too focused on actively protesting and worrying about dealing with the problems the police bring in to use fucking meth. They came there to protest a government overstepping it's bounds and stomping on people who can't really defend themselves, not get high...

If expressing their opinions is killing local wildlife, attacking farmers/ranchers, threatening to rape the wives of NG/LEO members, and throwing molotovs at people working on the pipe, then yes. They are a burden. Considering when we tried to cleanup the camp, ya' know... Because its on a fucking flood plain... They decided to set several buildings on fire in order to prevent/stall the deconstruction of the camp, which was mandated by not only state of North Dakota, but also on request of the Standing Rock Reservation, BIA, the Cannonball District, the councils at Standing Rock. Hell we even offered to bus them out, wherever they wanted to go in the lower 48, free. We also gave them free rooms here in Bismarck at some of the local hotels while we got everything sorted out with the Greyhounds. Showing some great respect to us for willing to let bygones be bygones, [url=https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/north-dakotas-assistance-program-nodapl-protesters-closed-hotel-room-trashed/]they went around trashing the hotel rooms we offered[/url] and then ran off as the Greyhounds were arriving to pick them up. But hey, their protestors! As the host of these protestors we are suppose to let them treat us like absolute dog shit, [I]and do and say nothing 'bout it.[/I]

But the pipeline's fine right?

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51930632]Whats easier and cheaper Well->truck->-Train->refinery or Pipeline->refinery[/QUOTE] Pipeline route that risks poisoning American's water? Nah we have to redirect this, that'd be bad. I know, we'll run it over the Native's water instead! Nobody cares about those guys anyway, they're not even real Americans. /s [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] Sadly I've seen a lot of hate for the natives on this forum too, enough that if you replace it with black, you could mistake it for a KKK thread.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51933910] Sadly I've seen a lot of hate for the natives on this forum too, enough that if you replace it with black, you could mistake it for a KKK thread.[/QUOTE] Or China's gov if it were Tibetan monks. People will always find a way to demonize the group they're against.

I'm with the natives on this one, it's pretty disgusting how the natives are essentially bullied into submission, and the media aren't even willing to cover the events properly. Gotta love how the army deployed MRAPs against the protestors.. disgusting.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51933695]If expressing their opinions is killing local wildlife, attacking farmers/ranchers, threatening to rape the wives of NG/LEO members, and throwing molotovs at people working on the pipe, then yes. They are a burden. Considering when we tried to cleanup the camp, ya' know... Because its on a fucking flood plain... They decided to set several buildings on fire in order to prevent/stall the deconstruction of the camp, which was mandated by not only state of North Dakota, but also on request of the Standing Rock Reservation, BIA, the Cannonball District, the councils at Standing Rock. Hell we even offered to bus them out, wherever they wanted to go in the lower 48, free. We also gave them free rooms here in Bismarck at some of the local hotels while we got everything sorted out with the Greyhounds. Showing some great respect to us for willing to let bygones be bygones, [url=https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/north-dakotas-assistance-program-nodapl-protesters-closed-hotel-room-trashed/]they went around trashing the hotel rooms we offered[/url] and then ran off as the Greyhounds were arriving to pick them up. But hey, their protestors! As the host of these protestors we are suppose to let them treat us like absolute dog shit, [I]and do and say nothing 'bout it.[/I][/QUOTE] That's a pretty liberal use of the word "we", I'm sure you were the one driving that bus and offering them those rooms while you were on fp posting about how they're all evil brown thugs

In this thread I heard that phasing out oil is easier and cheaper than building a pipeline, or moving oil to its required destinations. Incredible. God help us all.

[QUOTE=Anteep;51934882]In this thread I heard that phasing out oil is easier and cheaper than building a pipeline, or moving oil to its required destinations. Incredible. God help us all.[/QUOTE] A misconception worries you? Not the overwhelming number of people siding with companies that have terrible spill records with the responsibility of transporting tons of oil across bodies of water that feed into the mississippi basin, that's not slightly alarming? Man, feels like Deepwater Horizon happened just a few days ago.

[QUOTE=nox;51934953]A misconception worries you? Not the overwhelming number of people siding with companies that have terrible spill records with the responsibility of transporting tons of oil across bodies of water that feed into the mississippi basin, that's not slightly alarming? Man, feels like Deepwater Horizon happened just a few days ago.[/QUOTE] Maybe we have can entertain both possibilities? The company has a terrible track record and environmental damage is a likely consequence and there [i]are[/i] legitimate reasons to protest, but 'just build renewables instead' is simultaneously a simplistic and unfeasible take on the situation. Like it or not, we need oil, and not just for energy. There are plenty of industries, products, and processes absolutely reliant on fossil fuels, such as plastics, and even if we could accomplish a full switch to renewable energy in 2017 it wouldn't eliminate that need. And [i]even then[/i], we can't switch to renewables in 2017, we're talking a multi-decade process which is already underway and wholly compatible with optimizing our current use of fossil fuels. Now if someone has a better plan for transporting that oil with less environmental impact than a pipeline I'd like to learn more about it, or if the stats show we don't actually need the oil then I'd really like to learn more about it, but 'just switch to renewables' is not an answer, it's a soundbite.

[QUOTE=Anteep;51934882]In this thread I heard that phasing out oil is easier and cheaper than building a pipeline, or moving oil to its required destinations. Incredible. God help us all.[/QUOTE] between phasing out fossil fuels and moving to renewables asap or the eventual collapse of this United States there's a p clear choice tbh [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=catbarf;51935131]Now if someone has a better plan for transporting that oil with less environmental impact than a pipeline I'd like to learn more about it, or if the stats show we don't actually need the oil then I'd really like to learn more about it, but 'just switch to renewables' is not an answer, it's a soundbite.[/QUOTE] this pipeline is complete unnecessary though, which is kinda why there's been all the controversy American oil production is at an all time high, why the need for more? what the hell good is more going to do?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51935137]American oil production is at an all time high, why the need for more? what the hell good is more going to do?[/QUOTE] ...You need pipelines to get it from where it's supplied to where it's needed? What kind of question is that?

[QUOTE=catbarf;51936134]...You need pipelines to get it from where it's supplied to where it's needed? What kind of question is that?[/QUOTE] there's already a massive network of pipelines though? what benefit will this additional pipeline bring to the peoples of the USA? there's diminishing returns on infrastructure

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51936151]there's already a massive network of pipelines though? what benefit will this additional pipeline bring to the peoples of the USA? there's diminishing returns on infrastructure[/QUOTE] North Dakota directly lacks the infrastructure for high-volume transportation of oil. It's sorta why we have been having tons of trains derailing, and trucks carrying oil sometimes exploding in the middle of towns. Our roads and railroads can only be really upgraded so much, before the cost outweighs the revenue brought by the oil industry. Hence, the Dakota Access Pipeline, as well as several other pipelines being built in the state presently, including one being built on the Fort Berthold Reservation. The entire reason for this pipeline is to minimize the amount of Co2 being emitted via the transportation of oil with current methods, as well as lowering the cost for maintenance on roads and railroads. All while lowering the overall cost and risk of transporting the oil. [editline]9th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=zakedodead;51934579]That's a pretty liberal use of the word "we", I'm sure you were the one driving that bus and offering them those rooms while you were on fp posting about how they're all evil brown thugs[/QUOTE] Where exactly have I implied that the protestors are natives? :v:

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51936250]North Dakota directly lacks the infrastructure for high-volume transportation of oil. It's sorta why we have been having tons of trains derailing, and trucks carrying oil sometimes exploding in the middle of towns. Our roads and railroads can only be really upgraded so much, before the cost outweighs the revenue brought by the oil industry. Hence, the Dakota Access Pipeline, as well as several other pipelines being built in the state presently, including one being built on the Fort Berthold Reservation. The entire reason for this pipeline is to minimize the amount of Co2 being emitted via the transportation of oil with current methods, as well as lowering the cost for maintenance on roads and railroads. All while lowering the overall cost and risk of transporting the oil.[/QUOTE] well that's kinda of the reason why to retard the development of pipelines - those make the extraction of oil in the state more profitable and in turn reduce oil prices (hence overflowing the markets with even more cheap oil and reducing incentives to switch to renewables) if future oil well and pipeline projects kept being shitcanned, that would make it much harder for oil to compete in the marketplace