Victory for paid mod boycotters: Valve removes payment feature from TES: Skyrim area of the Steam Wo - Polidicks

[QUOTE=geel9;47618757] it's about content creators being forced to give their shit away for free. I've said this a thousand times. You don't have to make a [b]living[/b] off something to be [b]allowed to sell it.[/b][/QUOTE] Why would said content creator make the content if they knew well beforehand that they couldn't sell it? Tell me, what is it that kept the modding community alive for 15 years?

[QUOTE=geel9;47618784]You don't have to buy shitty mods.[/QUOTE] There shouldn't be shitty mods at all if the mod store comes back. What it needed in large part was heavy curation to cull shit mods that were broken or badly made. And even if [I]I[/I] didn't buy them, other people would, and someone looking for a quick buck would get it.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618781]It's worth whatever money people give me. That's kind of how capitalism works. As a content creator I'm allowed to charge a fee for my services. A very large amount of people have found my services to be worth that fee.[/QUOTE] yeah but I wouldn't pay for your works for the cost they're at so I'm not a customer so you're losing money by charging more money than you're worth. That's an ACTUAL definition of fucking entitled.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47618755]Yeah so you have one chance to catch the bugs in a mod and decide you don't want it before you're fucked forever. You have no recourse outside of that window[/QUOTE] Well yeah it's pretty bad but it's still way better than when you buy a game on Steam (i.e. no refunds whatsoever). I'm just saying it wouldn't have been possible for people to sell non-working scam mods.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618801]Okay, and those are downvoted and not purchased. Same as every other group of products in the world that has shitty products.[/QUOTE] In the 3 day period those shitty mods showed that Valve will remove the rating system if the rating system goes too low on your mod.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618740]Good job actually reading what I said, genius. You're just spouting the same stupid entitled cheap bullshit everyone else is without thinking about what you're actually saying. MODDING IS A HOBBY BECAUSE NOBODY WAS ALLOWED TO SELL THEIR SHIT BEFORE NOW, GENIUS.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/tnMaour.png[/img] That's the total amount of products I own on Steam. 101 of those are fucking DLC. I bought all of that, I've never pirated a game in my life, nor movies or music. I pay for it all. I'm a good little consumer. But I'm honestly FED UP with companies thinking they can charge anything and everything, and sorry, the consumer is FAR more important than anything else. The consumer drives the market, not the other way around. You're not entitled to money for everything you do in life, modding is a hobby, and NONE of my friends who have worked on Total Conversions ('Gunny, .Mitch. Mitch btw has a job now at the company that makes the games he used to mod, among others) think it should be any other way. So shut the fuck up about how I'm the "entitled" one for daring to not want companies to be able to charge for even fucking more. And if you don't think that this system is anything BUT valve and bethesda trying charging for all they can you're insane. They took a total of 75% of the fucking money.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47618807]yeah but I wouldn't pay for your works for the cost they're at so I'm not a customer so you're losing money by charging more money than you're worth. That's an ACTUAL definition of fucking entitled.[/QUOTE] You are not my target market, nor am I interested in giving things to you for free simply because you don't think it's worth it.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618784]You don't have to buy shitty mods.[/QUOTE] This could be a thing if there was something on the Steam Store that says "this is a shitty mod" How the fuck are you gonna know when something is a perfectly well done mod and when something is a shitty mod?

[QUOTE=Kljunas;47618811]Well yeah it's pretty bad but it's still way better than when you buy a game on Steam (i.e. no refunds whatsoever). I'm just saying it wouldn't have been possible for people to sell non-working scam mods.[/QUOTE] But they DID sell them. And you only made your money back in steam funds which is lost money to you anyways. If you don't catch the mods problems in 24 hours, you're fucked. I don't know about you, but I don't always have time to spend trawling through a digital world just to find the item I bought in real life with real money just to find it doesn't work.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618492]You [b]do not deserve the product of the efforts of someone who does not desire to give their product away for free.[/b] You do not deserve jack shit in the first place. A modder does not HAVE to charge money for their content.[/QUOTE] Why shouldn't they? What incentive is there to keep your mod free, and miss out on potential free money? Moral superiority?

[QUOTE=bdd458;47618813][img]http://i.imgur.com/tnMaour.png[/img] That's the total amount of products I own on Steam. 101 of those are fucking DLC. I bought all of that, I've never pirated a game in my life, nor movies or music. I pay for it all. I'm a good little consumer. But I'm honestly FED UP with companies thinking they can charge anything and everything, and sorry, the consumer is FAR more important than anything else. The consumer drives the market, not the other way around. You're not entitled to money for everything you do in life, modding is a hobby, and NONE of my friends who have worked on Total Conversions ('Gunny, .Mitch. Mitch btw has a job now at the company that makes the games he used to mod, among others) think it should be any other way. So shut the fuck up about how I'm the "entitled" one for daring to not want companies to be able to charge for even fucking more. And if you don't think that this system is anything BUT valve and bethesda trying charging for all they can you're insane. They took a total of 75% of the fucking money.[/QUOTE] It's not even about the companies, it's about the people who feel their time and content is worth more.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618818]You are not my target market, nor am I interested in giving things to you for free simply because you don't think it's worth it.[/QUOTE] But I would donate to someone if their work was quality, but you would of course respond to this saying "NO ONE DONATES EVER ANYWAYS" Wrong.

[QUOTE=Nightfury;47618819]This could be a thing if there was something on the Steam Store that says "this is a shitty mod" How the fuck are you gonna know when something is a perfectly well done mod and when something is a shitty mod?[/QUOTE] Reviews? Ratings? The same way you know about every other product in the world?

Here's the thing geel9, most mods that are released [b]don't[/b] deserve money. They are not up to the quality that consumers demand from paid products. When you say we don't deserve you're completely missing the point, it's not about who deserves what. Modding has developed a culture over the past 20 years, it has developed a system of free trade of knowledge and content, and that CAN NOT exist in a world where paid mods are a thing. The problem isn't that modder A can sell his mod, it's that by selling his mod he's devaluing the work of modders B, C, and D who release their stuff for free. Now they live in fear that someone will steal their mods to sell, that their work will go to profit someone else, that a system of value that [b]didn't fucking exist[/b] has been forced upon them by assholes who can only see the world with dollar signs in their eyes. I'd also just like to say that unlike everyone else defending paid mods, you come across as a particularly unpleasant person, who I would not trust to have any part of the modding community, paid or free.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47618831]But I would donate to someone if their work was quality, but you would of course respond to this saying "NO ONE DONATES EVER ANYWAYS" Wrong.[/QUOTE] Of course it's not true that [b]nobody[/b] donates but a [b]vast, vast, vast majority[/b] of people do not if they do not have to. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;47618836]Here's the thing geel9, most mods that are released [b]don't[/b] deserve money. They are not up to the quality that consumers demand from paid products. When you say we don't deserve you're completely missing the point, it's not about who deserves what. Modding has developed a culture over the past 20 years, it has developed a system of free trade of knowledge and content, and that CAN NOT exist in a world where paid mods are a thing. The problem isn't that modder A can sell his mod, it's that by selling his mod he's devaluing the work of modders B, C, and D who release their stuff for free. Now they live in fear that someone will steal their mods to sell, that their work will go to profit someone else, that a system of value that [b]didn't fucking exist[/b] has been forced upon them by assholes who can only see the world with dollar signs in their eyes. I'd also just like to say that unlike everyone else defending paid mods, you come across as a particularly unpleasant person, who I would not trust to have any part of the modding community, paid or free.[/QUOTE] If they don't deserve money don't pay for them.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618828]It's not even about the companies, it's about the people who feel their time and content is worth more.[/QUOTE] So you're not even thinking about this in depth are you? You're literally just thinking about how this applies to you? You don't even care about the longer term implications for game design from the companies that adapt this policy? You're being as short sighted and selfish as possible, and you're calling other people entitled? Think about the consequences of Unofficial Skyrim Patch being a sold item in the store. Think about that. A game launches broken and buggy. The fans fix it. The fans sell that patch. Now Bethesda makes money off of their own fuck ups and off the backs of modders without having to do any work? Fucking christ.

Also, it seems you're unaware of the already-existing system of copyright law.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618781]It's worth whatever money people give me. That's kind of how capitalism works. As a content creator I'm allowed to charge a fee for my services. A very large amount of people have found my services to be worth that fee.[/QUOTE] Bullshit, that's how ripping off fools works, and that makes you a colossal asshole, and moreso the [I]actual[/I] entitled person here. You're telling me that if we drop some shit you've done in the market next to everything else that's free, you'd see equal consumption in its relative community?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47618841]So you're not even thinking about this in depth are you? You're literally just thinking about how this applies to you? You don't even care about the longer term implications for game design from the companies that adapt this policy? You're being as short sighted and selfish as possible, and you're calling other people entitled?[/QUOTE] How dare I question the concept that modders must spend their time and effort on free content 100% of the time? [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;47618848]Bullshit, that's how ripping off fools works, and that makes you a colossal asshole, and moreso the [I]actual[/I] entitled person here. You're telling me that if we drop some shit you've done in the market next to everything else that's free, you'd see equal consumption in its relative community?[/QUOTE] There are competing services to scrap.tf. They're just not good. Hence why we're the market leader.

You know why you can't answer me? Because you haven't made anything that's worth a dime to me.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618851]How dare I question the concept that modders must spend their time and effort on free content 100% of the time?[/QUOTE] All you're looking at is dollar signs that are moving by you, don't act like it's anything more than that.

Except you're not the market leader.

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;47618858]You know why you can't answer me? Because you haven't made anything that's worth a dime to me.[/QUOTE] I don't exactly value you as a customer, though, do I? You're nowhere near my target market. For the record, I wouldn't purchase anything you've made either.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618832]Reviews? Ratings? The same way you know about every other product in the world?[/QUOTE] Exactly, and you think reviews and ratings are from out of nowhere? No, It's from people that paid for it and then ask for a refund and wrote a review of it that it's a shit mod. What's the bad part of this? That people loses their money because it's now on the Steam wallet.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618832]Reviews? Ratings? The same way you know about every other product in the world?[/QUOTE] And even with that system I've thrown away countless dollars on "highly reviewed" products because they ended up being absolute shit. So now I can potentially gamble more of money in hopes that a mod won't be shit! Capitalism at its finest.

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;47618861]Except you're not the market leader.[/QUOTE] And who is, then? [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Nightfury;47618871]Exactly, and you think reviews and ratings are from out of nowhere? No, It's from people that paid for it and then ask for a refund and wrote a review of it that it's a shit mod. What's the bad part of this? That people loses their money because it's now on the Steam wallet.[/QUOTE] I agree! Refunds should be refunded in cash, not Steam funbux. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Protocol7;47618872]And even with that system I've thrown away countless dollars on "highly reviewed" products because they ended up being absolute shit. So now I can potentially gamble more of money in hopes that a mod won't be shit! Capitalism at its finest.[/QUOTE] So your issue, then, is with capitalism.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618868]I don't exactly value you as a customer, though, do I? You're nowhere near my target market. For the record, I wouldn't purchase anything you've made either.[/QUOTE] No your demographic is the one that you can fuck, isn't it? Same goes for the demographic of paid modding.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618851] modders must spend their time and effort on free content 100% of the time? There are competing services to scrap.tf. They're just not good. Hence why we're the market leader.[/QUOTE] Yon don't have to, you don't need to touch a modding tool if you don't want to. That's why it's a [i]hobby[/i]

[QUOTE=geel9;47618844]Also, it seems you're unaware of the already-existing system of copyright law.[/QUOTE] As if that system stopped people from uploading stuff like Bloodbath Kavkaz to Steam, or even the Lambda Locator to the Mod Workshop which was one of many paid mods before whole service got bricked.

[QUOTE=Nightfury;47618871]Exactly, and you think reviews and ratings are from out of nowhere? No, It's from people that paid for it and then ask for a refund and wrote a review of it that it's a shit mod. What's the bad part of this? That people loses their money because it's now on the Steam wallet.[/QUOTE] People have to pay money just to test the mods to review them and if what I've seen with Greenlight is any indication of how this'll go, reviews won't be trustworthy.