Victory for paid mod boycotters: Valve removes payment feature from TES: Skyrim area of the Steam Wo - Polidicks

Could we just Ignore Geel already?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47619007]SKYUI, a nexus mod that's been untouched for two fucking years, was pulled down and made to be for sale only. It's an nearly essential add on to the game due to how poorly Bethesda handled the UI. So now in order to play a game without a shitty UI, pay money. In order to play a game without shitty bugs, pay money. Do you see where this slippery slope leads us?[/QUOTE] And yet someone else -- who has not been paid by Bethesda -- worked on that mod.

[QUOTE=bdd458;47618988]Should I demand that the museums and libraries I've volunteered at give me financial compensation for the hard work I've done for them? No I did that for free and don't deserve compensation for it. You don't need to get paid for everything you do, or make, in life.[/QUOTE] You don't deserve compensation because you agreed to work for free beforehand. If I walk into a museum or library and ask if they have (paid) job offers for me that's not entitlement.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619013]And yet someone else -- who has not been paid by Bethesda -- worked on that mod.[/QUOTE] Yes. Your point? My point is how this will quickly lower the quality of all games that decide to go down this route because "FUCK IT LET THE COMMUNITY FIX THE GAME, WE MAKE MONEY OFF OF THAT" But people like you don't care if gaming is burnt to the ground, so long as you can make money, right? Fuck other peoples hobbies, you got yours.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619010]The museum, I assume, also employs people.[/QUOTE] No, it's a volunteer run museum, which is the one I currently volunteer at. The one I used to, I got a weekend job when there was an opening because I got experience volunteering there. Which is no different from modding, you use it to get into the development field, you don't use it as a development field.

[QUOTE=geel9;47618993]Modders are not asking that people who already downloaded a mod be forced to pay retroactively, are they?[/QUOTE] Well....you see. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6y6XF2n.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47619027]Yes. Your point? My point is how this will quickly lower the quality of all games that decide to go down this route because "FUCK IT LET THE COMMUNITY FIX THE GAME, WE MAKE MONEY OFF OF THAT" But people like you don't care if gaming is burnt to the ground, so long as you can make money, right? Fuck other peoples hobbies, you got yours.[/QUOTE] I don't make money off mods whatsoever, nor do I wish to. However, yes, if a game is broken and it requires a paid mod to fix it -- that game will probably not sell well. If it does, and people do purchase the mod -- good for the mod creator. I do think there should be moral and legal ramifications for such a practice, mind you.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619036]I don't make money off mods whatsoever, nor do I wish to. However, yes, if a game is broken and it requires a paid mod to fix it -- that game will probably not sell well. If it does, and people do purchase the mod -- good for the mod creator. I do think there should be moral and legal ramifications for such a practice, mind you.[/QUOTE] How about we just don't enable the practice at all?

[QUOTE=bdd458;47619044]How about we just don't enable the practice at all?[/QUOTE] Sure, but that doesn't discount the possibility of paid mods in the first place.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619047]Sure, but that doesn't discount the possibility of paid mods in the first place.[/QUOTE] You don't enable the possibility of shits selling mods such as the "unofficial patches" by not allowing people to sell mods at all. It's an all or nothing situation.

Okay let me put this out there: 22nd of April, no-one talked or cared particularly about modders and money. Sure there was donations, but it was always accepted that modding was a hobby, and nothing more 23rd of April rolls around, suddenly, every modder is a 'content producer' who is making content from blood sweat and tears and endless packets of ramen noodles because they quit their job to make mods. What changed? Why was it okay for modders to make mods for free (well, not okay, the norm) one day, and the next HOW DARE YOU ASK FOR FREE CONTENT YOU ENTITLED FUCK. I'll warrant that a lot of people on the latter end of the scale ("Modders deserve money you're entitled dicks") downloaded a lot of free mods in their time.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619036]I don't make money off mods whatsoever, nor do I wish to. However, yes, if a game is broken and it requires a paid mod to fix it -- that game will probably not sell well. If it does, and people do purchase the mod -- good for the mod creator. I do think there should be moral and legal ramifications for such a practice, mind you.[/QUOTE] This is my biggest issue and I want people, everyone who deal with this issue, to think about the longer term impacts of this in a market place that is entirely unregulated like Valve's STEAM. A game like Skyrim launches, we can even imagine that this could happen to the next TES game, but for the mean time, think of Skyrim. It launches with a mod kit, paid mod potential, and is overall, largely broken(just like the state we all got Skyrim in) with bugs occuring everywhere and all sorts of weird shit that Bethesda clearly didn't care enough to fix or make(Just like they didn't when they made Skyrim, but that game sold like fucking hotcakes). So now, imagine, a week after release, you see a mod, the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" fixing almost all the bugs in the game. That guy is going to sell it for 10$. No one has any recourse against this, and if they want a working game, they have to buy it. Bethesda, they don't care that this is a thing, because now rather than having to work hard and pay people directly to make bug fixing patches, you're fucking CHARGING for it. You really think companies aren't going to jump on that bandwagon as fast as they can?

[QUOTE=bdd458;47619028]No, it's a volunteer run museum, which is the one I currently volunteer at. The one I used to, I got a weekend job when there was an opening because I got experience volunteering there. [B]Which is no different from modding, you use it to get into the development field, you don't use it as a development field.[/B][/QUOTE] And it should remain this way because...? I don't really get your analogy. There's a job that's only done by volunteers, alright. But if I now open a company that pays people to do that same job how is that wrong?

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47619065]Okay let me put this out there: 22nd of April, no-one talked or cared particularly about modders and money. Sure there was donations, but it was always accepted that modding was a hobby, and nothing more 23rd of April rolls around, suddenly, every modder is a 'content producer' who is making content from blood sweat and tears and endless packets of ramen noodles because they quit their job to make mods. What changed? Why was it okay for modders to make mods for free (well, not okay, the norm) one day, and the next HOW DARE YOU ASK FOR FREE CONTENT YOU ENTITLED FUCK. I'll warrant that a lot of people on the latter end of the scale ("Modders deserve money you're entitled dicks") downloaded a lot of free mods in their time.[/QUOTE] The only thing that changed was the tone of the hyperbole of whiny people. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Kljunas;47619071]And it should remain this way because...? I don't really get your analogy. There's a job that's only done by volunteers, alright. But if I now open a company that pays people to do that same job how is that wrong?[/QUOTE] Try it, you have the ability to do so now as it is. Open up a games studio that doesn't make games, but alters other games. Try and sell that idea and tell me about all the legal troubles and issues you run into.

Ofcourse geel is the one to defend this shit, who's surprised?

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47619065]Okay let me put this out there: 22nd of April, no-one talked or cared particularly about modders and money. Sure there was donations, but it was always accepted that modding was a hobby, and nothing more 23rd of April rolls around, suddenly, every modder is a 'content producer' who is making content from blood sweat and tears and endless packets of ramen noodles because they quit their job to make mods. What changed? Why was it okay for modders to make mods for free (well, not okay, the norm) one day, and the next HOW DARE YOU ASK FOR FREE CONTENT YOU ENTITLED FUCK. I'll warrant that a lot of people on the latter end of the scale ("Modders deserve money you're entitled dicks") downloaded a lot of free mods in their time.[/QUOTE] What changed? The fact that you're no longer entitled to demand free content. Modders are 100% free to release their content without charging, but you're not (nor have you ever been, really) free to demand they release it for free.

To put things in perspective for people reading, [url=https://scriptfodder.com/]ScriptFodder,[/url] the now defacto paid addon community for GMod has moved about 200k dollars between consumers and content creators. That's impressive, and it's a great site, but that's collectively less than one year's salary for a small development team. I don't know how many developers are on that site, but it's more than 2 or 3.

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;47619095]To put things in perspective for people reading, [url=https://scriptfodder.com/]ScriptFodder,[/url] the now defacto paid addon community for GMod has moved about 200k dollars between consumers and content creators. That's impressive, and it's a great site, but that's collectively less than one year's salary for a small development team. I don't know how many developers are on that site, but it's more than 2 or 3.[/QUOTE] So should the scripts on ScriptFodder be released for free?

[QUOTE=geel9;47618955]I have nothing to do with the modding scene at all. I have no vested interest here.[/QUOTE] Well, I do (have something to do with it and have vested interests). I realized a few minutes ago that given the strength of opposing circlejerk, we would never be able to win. Therefore, I created a Steam Group, Greedy Modders, where we could have our own mini-circlejerk in isolated peace, and plan for the second coming of the Great Paywall. [URL]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/_freethemods[/URL] [B]Edit:[/B] Dammit. You think I'm not serious. I am 110% serious.

[QUOTE=Hogie bear;47619088]Ofcourse geel is the one to defend this shit, who's surprised?[/QUOTE] Thankfully Max is Pbanned.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619094]What changed? The fact that you're no longer entitled to demand free content. Modders are 100% free to release their content without charging, but you're not (nor have you ever, really) been free to demand they release it for free.[/QUOTE] Honestly, it should be telling the caliber of people we're dealing with when waving pennies in front of their faces got them to utterly destroy the credibility of the store in just 3 days. but you feel free to ignore that, like everything else you do.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619036]I do think there should be moral and legal ramifications for such a practice, mind you.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=geel9;47619036]good for the mod creator.[/QUOTE] N-no? That's not good for the mod creator at all?

Sure why not. It's not like it's all higher quality than other things I've seen come out of GMod's community.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47619069]This is my biggest issue and I want people, everyone who deal with this issue, to think about the longer term impacts of this in a market place that is entirely unregulated like Valve's STEAM. A game like Skyrim launches, we can even imagine that this could happen to the next TES game, but for the mean time, think of Skyrim. It launches with a mod kit, paid mod potential, and is overall, largely broken(just like the state we all got Skyrim in) with bugs occuring everywhere and all sorts of weird shit that Bethesda clearly didn't care enough to fix or make(Just like they didn't when they made Skyrim, but that game sold like fucking hotcakes). So now, imagine, a week after release, you see a mod, the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" fixing almost all the bugs in the game. That guy is going to sell it for 10$. No one has any recourse against this, and if they want a working game, they have to buy it. Bethesda, they don't care that this is a thing, because now rather than having to work hard and pay people directly to make bug fixing patches, you're fucking CHARGING for it. You really think companies aren't going to jump on that bandwagon as fast as they can?[/QUOTE] Reply to this geel9.

[QUOTE=Kljunas;47619071]And it should remain this way because...? [/QUOTE] Because the majority demands it stays that way. The modding community, modders and their subscribers alike, have come out admonishing this move. The only people I've seen supporting this move are people who aren't part of the modding community, or those who have left, who see a possible new way for them to make money. And fuck those people.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47619124]Reply to this geel9.[/QUOTE] he can't because that involves more than calling his opponent entitled.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619108]So should the scripts on ScriptFodder be released for free?[/QUOTE] When you do start putting your posts behind paywalls so we can ignore them? We honestly don't deserve such quality posts for free, you worked hard on them.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47619124]Reply to this geel9.[/QUOTE] I do not believe that a broken game should be allowed to be released in the first place.

[QUOTE=geel9;47619139]I do not believe that a broken game should be allowed to be released in the first place.[/QUOTE] So why should we pay for broken mods?

[QUOTE=F T;47619142]So why should we pay for broken mods?[/QUOTE] I've already posted repeatedly that I believe there should be strict mod review policies.